Marine Says He'll Continue to Post on Tea Party Facebook Page

BeatNavy said:
I know this is a little off topic and rather esoteric, (I think there is a lawyer on the boards though) but how do constitutional rights apply to military members? Are constitutional rights that conflict with UCMJ (i.e. free speech) the only ones which don't apply to the military, or does UCMJ just completely supersede all civilian rules? For example, are military members subject to searches without a warrant, do they have protection from self incrimination, do they have different second amendment rights, etc. I know some items automatically can't coexist with the rules of UCMJ, but what about the others?
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I don't think it matters. Before entering the military you understand that there are certain rules and guidelines you accept, and certain rights you relinquish. Granted, it should be made clear to you what you're getting yourself into.

IN my personal opinion, if you swear an oath to keep the UCMJ. And you subsequently don't keep it, then all the blame falls on you.
 
As uncomfortable as the Marine Corps is with social media, I'm interested to see how far this is pushed...


...who was the last Marine who was Court Martialed for something he posted, that was political, online?
 
Maximus said:
The Media, have you ever heard of any action taken against Staff Sergeant Charles Pollard?










BTW, I don't agree with this Marine, poor choice made.







jam??? :rolleyes:
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A quick Google search reveals that Pollard appears to have been disciplined. Hopefully the link comes through. If not, the info can be found in a book titled "Night Draws Near: Iraq's People in the Shadow of America's War" By Anthony Shadid (page 252).

http://books.google.com/books?id=fo...page&q=Staff Sergeant Charles Pollard&f=false
 
fly boy said:
So do you swear this oath when you become a cadet?
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Yes. You swear to an "Oath of Allegiance" which states:

Oath Of Allegiance said:
I, (Insert Name Here) , do solemnly swear that I will support the Constitution
of the United States, and bear true allegiance to the National Government; that I will maintain and defend the sovereignty of the United States, paramount to any and all allegiance, sovereignty, or fealty I may owe to any State or Country whatsoever; and that I will at all times obey the legal orders of my superior officers, and the Uniform Code of Military Justice.
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MakeItHappen said:
A quick Google search reveals that Pollard appears to have been disciplined. Hopefully the link comes through. If not, the info can be found in a book titled "Night Draws Near: Iraq's People in the Shadow of America's War" By Anthony Shadid (page 252).

http://books.google.com/books?id=fo...page&q=Staff Sergeant Charles Pollard&f=false
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Oh, I did a cursory search and found zero jam...er I mean new member here.
I also looked at your book reference, and only found that NYT reporter "Anthony Shadid" (yeah...he's open minded lol) quotes an enlisted man in his book, that was mad about that report of Pollard's rant against Bush, and that he, Staff Sergeant Pollard, was...relieved of command over the incident???

Command of what, and where is it reported?
 
Max,

Chill out. I spent ten minutes on a Google search of "Staff Sergeant Charles Pollard". The only reference (to any discipline) I found was in the above listed book. Yes, its another enlisted, Kaczmarek, talking about how both were disciplined. No, its not anything official. I don't have access to that.

Point is, these members of the military need to better understand military codes and it doesn't matter who is in office.
 
MakeItHappen said:
Max,

Chill out. I spent ten minutes on a Google search of "Staff Sergeant Charles Pollard". The only reference (to any discipline) I found was in the above listed book. Yes, its another enlisted, Kaczmarek, talking about how both were disciplined. No, its not anything official. I don't have access to that.

Point is, these members of the military need to better understand military codes and it doesn't matter who is in office.
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Chill out? lol OK, thanks :thumb:

BTW, don't you find it interesting that you can find literally thousands of news items on this Marine and all he did was criticize a social issue policy? Yet the 20+ year veteran Polllard criticized not only a military order, but his Commander in Chief on that policy. Just a tad different don't you think?

BTW, Semper Fi :thumb:

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Marine back on Facebook after fueling debate
(AP) – 5 days ago

SAN DIEGO — A Camp Pendleton Marine has relaunched his Facebook page after taking it down briefly when his criticism of President Barack Obama grabbed the attention of his superior and fueled a free speech debate among the military.

Sgt. Gary Stein says he decided to relaunch his Armed Forces Tea Party page after meeting with base lawyers Wednesday.

The 24-year-old Marine says he was asked by his superiors to review the Pentagon's directive on political activities after he criticized Obama's health care reform efforts and was then invited to discuss his views on MSNBC.

The American Civil Liberties Union sent a letter urging the Marine Corps to protect Stein's rights.

Information from: The San Diego Union-Tribune, http://www.signonsandiego.com
 
Maximus said:
Chill out? lol OK, thanks :thumb:

BTW, don't you find it interesting that you can find literally thousands of news items on this Marine and all he did was criticize a social issue policy? Yet the 20+ year veteran Polllard criticized not only a military order, but his Commander in Chief on that policy. Just a tad different don't you think?

BTW, Semper Fi :thumb:

*********************************************

Marine back on Facebook after fueling debate
(AP) – 5 days ago

SAN DIEGO — A Camp Pendleton Marine has relaunched his Facebook page after taking it down briefly when his criticism of President Barack Obama grabbed the attention of his superior and fueled a free speech debate among the military.

Sgt. Gary Stein says he decided to relaunch his Armed Forces Tea Party page after meeting with base lawyers Wednesday.

The 24-year-old Marine says he was asked by his superiors to review the Pentagon's directive on political activities after he criticized Obama's health care reform efforts and was then invited to discuss his views on MSNBC.

The American Civil Liberties Union sent a letter urging the Marine Corps to protect Stein's rights.

Information from: The San Diego Union-Tribune, http://www.signonsandiego.com
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IMO, the reason for the disparity in information on the two individuals is the explosion of web based info that was not here just a few years ago.

As an aside, Information Technology is moving way ahead of the law and what rational folks are able to handle. Had there been no internet, my guess is that Stein would not be in the middle of the town square shouting out his personal views to all. The web has enticed many to hasty action and reaction without pause for critical reflection.

I believe if one aspires to the high cause of defending our nation, then one must understand that the mission comes first, and one's views should be "checked in at the door". There is no need to get near the legal gray areas.

Absolutely, Semper Fi!
 
MakeItHappen said:
I believe if one aspires to the high cause of defending our nation, then one must understand that the mission comes first, and one's views should be "checked in at the door".
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They are defending the nation from enemies foreign and domestic... Sometimes interesting how some people define that.
 
MakeItHappen said:
IMO, the reason for the disparity in information on the two individuals is the explosion of web based info that was not here just a few years ago.

As an aside, Information Technology is moving way ahead of the law and what rational folks are able to handle. Had there been no internet, my guess is that Stein would not be in the middle of the town square shouting out his personal views to all. The web has enticed many to hasty action and reaction without pause for critical reflection.

I believe if one aspires to the high cause of defending our nation, then one must understand that the mission comes first, and one's views should be "checked in at the door". There is no need to get near the legal gray areas.

Absolutely, Semper Fi!
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Ain't technology wonderful? It's just that the article I quoted, and the "non fiction" book you quoted are from 2005! lol That's hardly the dark ages! lol

Agreed, check your criticisms of the Commander in Chief if you swear an oath. But, as I pointed out, it was alright in the media back then, and now it's attacked....fact.

BTW Makeithappen, are you too a former Marine :thumb:
 
Maximus said:
Ain't technology wonderful? It's just that the article I quoted, and the "non fiction" book you quoted are from 2005! lol That's hardly the dark ages! lol

Agreed, check your criticisms of the Commander in Chief if you swear an oath. But, as I pointed out, it was alright in the media back then, and now it's attacked....fact.

BTW Makeithappen, are you too a former Marine :thumb:
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I visited the Stein Facebook site last night and was dismayed by posts made by self described members of the military. IMO, some comments are way over the line. I understand this is a very small number of folks, but there seems to be a serious lack of understanding on this speech issue. I doubt "the media" or "the brass" will pick up on these individual public posts, but there is that possibility.

I am not a Marine, just a supporter of our armed forces. :beer1:
 
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