McChrystal: Bigger force a must for Afghan war

tpg:
Do you know of a Washington speak to English cross dictionary or perhaps Washington speak language tapes.:shake:

Mr Obama is waiting to reveal his decisions on Afghanistan until his guest spot on "Oprah" then a follow up with Leno on "The Tonight Show" because he is the happy President.

At least everyone will have health coverage for the next terrorist attack.
These are my views and opinions they should not be taken as facts.
 
Deja Vu:

Retro forty five years. Hearts and Minds. LBJ (Not Long Binh Jail) philosophy. Politicians selecting targets and running boots on the ground or targeted air strikes from foggy bottom. Recipe for disaster.:thumbdown:
 
AF6872 said:
Deja Vu:

Retro forty five years. Recipe for disaster.:thumbdown:
Click to expand...

This does indeed appear to be history in re-run. Basically guys with no clue but their eye on the ever present polling data will now give their considered opinion - faster training of Afghan forces, continued assassinations and support for Pakistan. That actually means - " do the same thing you have been doing even though that approach has clearly failed". "Gosh Captain Smith we hit that iceberg should we do something? Ask me again after we rearrange the deck chairs."

"White House Eyeing Narrower War Effort"
Top Officials Challenge General's Assessment
By Scott Wilson and Anne E. Kornblut
Washington Post Staff Writers
Friday, October 2, 2009
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/10/01/AR2009100105069.html?hpid=topnews
 
I read that article also when I saw the statement that Vice President Biden has offered some of the most pointed challenges to Gen McCrystal's plan I began to wonder what military experience biden had to compare with that of Gen McCrystal who is one of the foremost experts in counter intelligence warfare available.
I found biden's military experience or lack of as follows.
Five student draft deferments, then reclassified as not available for service due to having asthma as a teenager. This reclassification happened in April 1968 at the peak of the Vietnam war.
Biden should stick to blathering about domestic issues, the man has on his staff a podiatrist and dentist to assist him in removing his foot from his mouth.:eek::confused:
 
I would recommend for reading "The Rise and Fall of the Great Powers" by Paul Kennedy. A great historic analysis of the ascendant and declining powers from 1500 through 2000. Most all great powers overextended and spent themselves into second or third world status. I would assign the current crop in Washington to Dante's Eighth Circle. The Politicians and Liars.:bang: Sorry, forgot Pimps and Seducers.
 
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tpg:
It's not good for Marines active or retired to beat their heads against walls. Number 1. people stare and might get the wrong ideas about Marines. Number 2 It causes severe damage to the walls and walls are our friends.

AF6872
See above advice substitute Marine with Wingnut and disregard number 2 as wingnuts are to soft headed to damage walls.:yllol::shake::biggrin:
 
tpg:
The current administration is going to continue searching until they find an adviser who will parrot their agenda (what ever that may be) and then make a decision based on that advisor's expertise.


Penn state got lucky today.:yllol::shake:
 
Obviously this discussion is a clear example of partisan politics and speaking out of both side of your mouth.

I have no idea what the solution is and wouldn't dare say I know what Obama should do but, I do know one thing, he'd better drop the partisan politics and make the right decision, our kids lives are at stake.
 
tpg:
I did not mean to imply that there aren't knowledgeable advisers out there providing input to the military chain of command,however it seems to me that the advice of these advisor's is falling on deaf ears at the top of the chain of command. One of my theories is that the president has not heard advice he likes. So no plan has been approved. My second theory is that Mr obama has been to busy trying to sell Chicago to the Olympic committee and accepting a noblel pizza prize to review the recommendations.

It could be that I don't posses the in depth knowledge of the workings in D.C. (I bow to the master:yllol:)

in your opinion for this situation which is worse making a bad decision or not making a decision.:confused:
 
tpg:
has Pakistan requested any military aid (troops) from the U.S.?

I'm just working on a new scenario to try and figure out Washington's line of reasoning.:confused:
 
tpg:
another short question how secure are Pakistan's WMD against terrorist theft in your opinion?:confused:
filling in blanks in my theory.
 
Do nothing for victory???

Now we have Sen. Kerry suggesting we reject the SOF/terrorist hunt strategy, but don't give McChrystal the troops he wants either. Sounds like a "do nothing and hope we suddenly win" strategy. :thumbdown:
http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2009/10/26/kerry-treads-middle-ground-on-afghanistan/

The President is set to have another meeting on Afghanistan on Monday.

I know strategy formulation takes time, but how long has it been?...
 
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/10/28/AR2009102804490.html?hpid=topnews

Obama seeks study on local leaders for troop decision
AFGHAN PROVINCES TO BE ANALYZED
Details should help president determine need

"President Obama has asked senior officials for a province-by-province analysis of Afghanistan to determine which regions are being managed effectively by local leaders and which require international help, information that his advisers say will guide his decision on how many additional U.S. troops to send to the battle.
Obama made the request in a meeting Monday with Vice President Biden and a small group of senior advisers helping him decide whether to expand the war. The detail he is now seeking also reflects the administration's turn toward Afghanistan's provincial governors, tribal leaders and local militias as potentially more effective partners in the effort than a historically weak central government that is confronting questions of legitimacy after the flawed Aug. 20 presidential election"...

I see this from competing angles: for certain the key is using and controlling the provinces as opposed to the central government in Afghanistan and the President should understand what areas we need to focus our resources on. However this also smacks both of serious micromanagement from Washington and procrastination - under the guise of "studying", avoiding having to make any decision until the decision is made for us. One does after all presume that LTG McChrystal, actually being on the ground in Afghanistan, knows full well that the key is out in the provinces and that there is only so much that the central government can control in a country with no history of strong central government, and no infrastructure to facilitate the effective exercise of strong government.
 
bruno said:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/10/28/AR2009102804490.html?hpid=topnews

"President Obama has asked senior officials for a province-by-province analysis of Afghanistan to determine which regions are being managed effectively by local leaders and which require international help, information that his advisers say will guide his decision on how many additional U.S. troops to send to the battle.
Obama made the request in a meeting Monday with Vice President Biden and a small group of senior advisers helping him decide whether to expand the war. The detail he is now seeking also reflects the administration's turn toward Afghanistan's provincial governors, tribal leaders and local militias as potentially more effective partners in the effort than a historically weak central government that is confronting questions of legitimacy after the flawed Aug. 20 presidential election"...
.
Click to expand...

Obama's small group of advisor's (HA) they will be political advisor's, advising him on the the most politically correct path to take. By not making a decision about Afghanistan he leaves his options open whether to send the requested troops and save the world from terrorism or he can bring our boys home because the fate of the ruling government in Afghanistan is not worth the life of a single serviceman.
Obama will keep both options open for as long as he can, until he is forced to make a decision like the possibility of the taliban acquiring nucs from a neighbor of Afghanistan:eek:
 
gunner1zeus said:
Obama's small group of advisor's (HA) they will be political advisor's, advising him on the the most politically correct path to take. By not making a decision about Afghanistan he leaves his options open whether to send the requested troops and save the world from terrorism or he can bring our boys home because the fate of the ruling government in Afghanistan is not worth the life of a single serviceman.
Obama will keep both options open for as long as he can, until he is forced to make a decision like the possibility of the taliban acquiring nucs from a neighbor of Afghanistan:eek:
Click to expand...

The wait will be till the November elections here in America.
 
If I was McChrystal; I'm not sure I could continue to work for Obama. I think I'd retire. Obama is a disgrace when it comes to the military and national security. He hires a general, almost never speaks to him for weeks at a time; the general gives his assessment and opinion on the situation and what he needs; Obama is forced to address the situation; pretends he's got a handle on the situation; doesn't trust his general's advice and opinions; and now decides to get "Other" advisors to look again so he can find the most politically advantageous decision. Obama is a Joke. Sorry folks, but someone here has to say it. None of this Political Correctness crap by me. It's not going to happen.

As for any of our cadets who are reading this post, that is part of the military you're going to have to come to understand. While on active duty, you are bound to follow your commander in chief and to follow the orders of the officers appointed over you. But once you've paid your dues and have retired or separated, you are entitled to and encouraged to become involved in the very constitutional rights that you have sworn to protect and defend. And if you stay in 20+ years like I and many others on this forum have, you will find that some "4 year blocks" of your service are better than others. And I guess I'm not the only one in the country getting a little frustrated. Mind you, there's a poll for everything. This is simply a "STRONGLY APPROVE/DISAPPROVE" poll. Basically, showing a shift in the last 9 months. mike.....

obama_approval_index_october_29_2009.jpg
 
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CC
You forgot one of Obama's top advisor's on Afghanistan, Joe Biden who during the early years of the Vietnam war had five or six draft deferments due to college and at the peak of that war was reclassified to unfit for military service due too childhood asthma. Hows that for a dynamic duo.
 
I've heard nothing but criticism for Biden's plan, yet it gets mentioned in nearly every news article on the topic. I'm beginning to wonder why.
 
If I was McChrystal; I'm not sure I could continue to work for Obama. I think I'd retire.
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Now that would be downright unpatriotic. Should a General only serve if he agrees wth the boss?
Obama has chose to use the chain of command. Bush chose not to use it. Two different leadership styles.
McChrystal could have been fired for shooting his mouth off in London. He was out of line going on 60 minutes.
Hopefully, there was a meeting of the minds during their short visit in Copenhagen.

While on active duty, you are bound to follow your commander in chief and to follow the orders of the officers appointed over you.
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Does this not also apply to General McChrystal?
 
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