Minority Advantage

tcas26

Member
Would being half Chinese help me at all? I've read that WP does fill in slots with minorities after the 150 NWL appointees. Or is it just extremely underrepresented minorities that have this advantage?
 

jl123

Member
Would being half Chinese help me at all? I've read that WP does fill in slots with minorities after the 150 NWL appointees. Or is it just extremely underrepresented minorities that have this advantage?
After the first 150 on the NWL, they are not required to offer appointments according to order of merit (WCS score). This is where they meet recruiting goals: recruited athletes, minorities, women, enlisted personnel, etc. Candidates in those categories must still be qualified, but may be chosen with a lower WCS score if goals for a specific category have not yet been met.

To the best of my knowledge, appointees of Asian descent have not needed this consideration for representation.
 
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BobbyW123

Banned
After the first 150 on the NWL, they are not required to offer appointments according to order of merit (WCS score). This is where they meet recruiting goals: recruited athletes, minorities, women, enlisted personnel, etc. Candidates in those categories must still be qualified, but may be chosen with a lower WCS score if goals for a specific category have not yet been met.
But why not me? I was told no even with my 25 ACT and B average GPA. I am older and more experienced
 

HowstheCow

Member
A candidate's individual circumstances are considered in the rating factors used in determining your Whole Candidate Score (WCS) which is based on Academics, Test Scores, Extra-curricular/leadership activities, CFA, etc. As I recall, one of the essays my DS had to prepare for one of the SA's application was specifically geared to describing a life challenge or adversity that he had overcome and what was gained from that experience.

There is a lot of useful information on this forum based on experience. However, as many will say, there is no cookie cutter candidate profile to which an answer can be given about one's individual chances. You can see appointees with lower test scores and those with high test scores receive appointments. It all depends on the various factors the SAs use to assess candidates.

If you are inquiring about acceptance for this fall, you have missed the deadlines. The application process for the SAs as an 8-12 month process with various steps. If you have not visited the SAs individual admissions websites, I encourage you to do so and review the timelines. USAFA and USNA window closed on 31 Jan....USMA closes on 28 Feb. In addition, a candidate needs to obtain a nomination from a source, whether it be their Senator, Member of Congress, Vice President, or President. This is all explained on the websites and discussed in great detail on this and other forums out there.

There are candidates with scores similar to yours who are offered the SAs Prep School or an Association of Graduate's Scholarship Program to help a candidate improve their scores and be competitive. Applicants who attend these programs stand very good chances of admission. Based on your reported age, this may be an issue as you cannot be older than 23 upon admission. There are other options out there as well such as ROTC.

There is a lot to take in and it is confusing. My best advice is to start at the admissions web pages, do your research, come up with a plan, and visit the forums to seek advice and guidance along the way.
 

jl123

Member
But why not me? I was told no even with my 25 ACT and B average GPA. I am older and more experienced
Have you completed your application? Competitiveness for admission is based on more than just test scores and grades, although those components are heavily weighted.

Admissions calculates a numeric score (WCS score) based on your application, transcript, test scores, teacher evaluations, and fitness test. If you completed your application and your Regional Commander (RC) told you your application was not competitive, it was based your WCS score in comparison to other candidates. If you did not complete your application and were asking someone in admissions about your chances based on your GPS and test score, they were giving a general response based upon a typical class profile.

USMA is one of the most competitive schools in the country, accepting less than 10% of applicants. The average ACT score is 29. The minimum recommended for any single category is 25, although they do accept lower if there is good reason. For the most recent profile, 82% of the ACT Math scores were above 25. None were below 21.
 

BobbyW123

Banned
Have you completed your application? Competitiveness for admission is based on more than just test scores and grades, although those components are heavily weighted.

Admissions calculates a numeric score (WCS score) based on your application, transcript, test scores, teacher evaluations, and fitness test. If you completed your application and your Regional Commander (RC) told you your application was not competitive, it was based your WCS score in comparison to other candidates. If you did not complete your application and were asking someone in admissions about your chances based on your GPS and test score, they were giving a general response based upon a typical class profile.

USMA is one of the most competitive schools in the country, accepting less than 10% of applicants. The average ACT score is 29. The minimum recommended for any single category is 25, although they do accept lower if there is good reason. For the most recent profile, 82% of the ACT Math scores were above 25. None were below 21.
Yeah but I am in the top 10%. Do not look down on me
 

Artillery

Member
Would being half Chinese help me at all? I've read that WP does fill in slots with minorities after the 150 NWL appointees. Or is it just extremely underrepresented minorities that have this advantage?
See, I don't really know about the Asian minority thing, I'm East Indian which makes me Asian under their demographic thing, but I don't actually think we count as minorities even though we're kinda underrepresented.

I'd certainly put your race and ethnicity down, because I'm sure it can't hurt you, but I don't really know if it helps all that much.
 

jagger19

Member
Yeah but I am in the top 10%. Do not look down on me
West Point doesn't care if you're in the top .10% - they want to make sure you have the potential to be a leader of character, who can lead soldiers into battle. If you do not appear to be someone capable of doing this, your chances are slim.

As for looking down on you - nobody is doing that. You ACT score is 4 points below the average, your grades are at the lower end of the average of what most people entering West Point have, and your "circumstances," which I assume allude to your battles with drugs, do not make you look better. In fact, the drugs probably have you at a high risk for being admitted; have you applied for this year yet?

As well, don't worry about race. You should never have something you can't control as your fallback.
 

BobbyW123

Banned
West Point doesn't care if you're in the top .10% - they want to make sure you have the potential to be a leader of character, who can lead soldiers into battle. If you do not appear to be someone capable of doing this, your chances are slim.

As for looking down on you - nobody is doing that. You ACT score is 4 points below the average, your grades are at the lower end of the average of what most people entering West Point have, and your "circumstances," which I assume allude to your battles with drugs, do not make you look better. In fact, the drugs probably have you at a high risk for being admitted; have you applied for this year yet?

As well, don't worry about race. You should never have something you can't control as your fallback.
No I am applying for next year. My circumstances are more than drugs. I have had to defend my family from threats and have had to deal with dangerous people. The schools I went to didn't prepare well for standardized tests. I am a leader; if I wasn't I wouldn't be here today
 

BSCAR

Member
Yeah but I am in the top 10%. Do not look down on me
I'm gonna give you the benefit of the doubt here and assume that you are indeed serious and not trolling a board mostly comprised of experienced grads and parents of cadets whose sole purpose on this website is to help people like you and I.

No one here looks down on you because of academic shortcomings and personal failings. Many of us have fought like all hell just to pass classes and struggled to meet academic standards. All of us have been involved in some less than virtuous dealings--I myself have been arrested (an event that had serious remifications with regard to my application and may yet preclude me from appointment). No one here had any idea you were a minority until you said it (it's rather depressing to see how such a large part of how you see yourself is predicated on the amount of melanin in your skin) and even if they had a way of knowing, they would not care; many of us are ethnic minorities and all of us have a special love for a career field that is extraordinarily diverse. All men are equal before the law and have equal opportunity to succeed; the United States is the closest men can get to a true meritocracy.

Where I do begin to look down on you and where I become quite repulsed and revolted with you and the society that has fostered such destructive destructive distortions of reality--which you have very clearly internalized--is your sense of victimhood, total lack of responsibility for your own life, sense of entitlement, and your propensity for leveling verbal abuse at those who wish to help you succeed.

You constantly piss and moan about how whitey has kept you down. Have you stopped to look in there mirror and analyze where you have failed and then made a serious attempt at self improvement? If not, I should dare to subit that the only person responsible for your lot in life and academic inadequacy is youself.

Do you honestly believe that white kids are given a free pass into West Point while minorities are left to try and meet impossible standards? Do you truly believe that all white kids have met no adversity in life?

Truly! What a horrible cross you must bear! I cannot imagine how horrible it must have been to never live in fear of starvation or war on the home front no matter how destitute you become! How awful it must be to be seriously considered for the world's premier military institution in the world's finest army without being born of noble blood or purchasing a commission!

Should you get accepted what will you do? Accuse the cadre of racism because they gave you hours? Accuse your peers and superiors of racism every time you don't get a promotion? Foster racial animosity among your subordinates? Accuse the enemy of prejudice when he's running amok in and behind your lines and killing your men?

No sir, I do not look down on you because of your racial status. Rather, as MLK prescribed, I judge you by the content of your character and refuse to make any allowances for your behavior simply due to the color of your skin. Your character has shown you severely deficient in the qualities necessary in an army officer--namely, responsibility and ability to take correction and make improvement.

I was content to let you thrown your tantrums unmolested, but I cannot allow your treatment of the good people of this forum to stand unchallenged.
 

BobbyW123

Banned
I'm gonna give you the benefit of the doubt here and assume that you are indeed serious and not trolling a board mostly comprised of experienced grads and parents of cadets whose sole purpose on this website is to help people like you and I.

No one here looks down on you because of academic shortcomings and personal failings. Many of us have fought like all hell just to pass classes and struggled to meet academic standards. All of us have been involved in some less than virtuous dealings--I myself have been arrested (an event that had serious remifications with regard to my application and may yet preclude me from appointment). No one here had any idea you were a minority until you said it (it's rather depressing to see how such a large part of how you see yourself is predicated on the amount of melanin in your skin) and even if they had a way of knowing, they would not care; many of us are ethnic minorities and all of us have a special love for a career field that is extraordinarily diverse. All men are equal before the law and have equal opportunity to succeed; the United States is the closest men can get to a true meritocracy.

Where I do begin to look down on you and where I become quite repulsed and revolted with you and the society that has fostered such destructive destructive distortions of reality--which you have very clearly internalized--is your sense of victimhood, total lack of responsibility for your own life, sense of entitlement, and your propensity for leveling verbal abuse at those who wish to help you succeed.

You constantly piss and moan about how whitey has kept you down. Have you stopped to look in there mirror and analyze where you have failed and then made a serious attempt at self improvement? If not, I should dare to subit that the only person responsible for your lot in life and academic inadequacy is youself.

Do you honestly believe that white kids are given a free pass into West Point while minorities are left to try and meet impossible standards? Do you truly believe that all white kids have met no adversity in life?

Truly! What a horrible cross you must bear! I cannot imagine how horrible it must have been to never live in fear of starvation or war on the home front no matter how destitute you become! How awful it must be to be seriously considered for the world's premier military institution in the world's finest army without being born of noble blood or purchasing a commission!

Should you get accepted what will you do? Accuse the cadre of racism because they gave you hours? Accuse your peers and superiors of racism every time you don't get a promotion? Foster racial animosity among your subordinates? Accuse the enemy of prejudice when he's running amok in and behind your lines and killing your men?

No sir, I do not look down on you because of your racial status. Rather, as MLK prescribed, I judge you by the content of your character and refuse to make any allowances for your behavior simply due to the color of your skin. Your character has shown you severely deficient in the qualities necessary in an army officer--namely, responsibility and ability to take correction and make improvement.

I was content to let you thrown your tantrums unmolested, but I cannot allow your treatment of the good people of this forum to stand unchallenged.
I am going to ignore your disrespect for one minute to answer your long remark. You have no right to come in here and act like you know my story. On this forum you have called me horrible things and even prayed I was not real. That hurts. Is that how you will treat your fellow soldiers when you disagree by saying they do not exist? You have never had to deal with cocaine being shoved in your face. I am only speaking facts that when I called admissions they had no compassion for my story. They did not get where I came from and how I grew up and were not open minded to people who grew up differently. I only attacked people on here who attacked me. I call it like I see it and my comm college was looked down upon and I can here it in your tone. You assume I am not as good as you which is racism. I will enlist and prove all of the doubters wrong. I will be great
 

BSCAR

Member
I am going to ignore your disrespect for one minute to answer your long remark. You have no right to come in here and act like you know my story. On this forum you have called me horrible things and even prayed I was not real. That hurts. Is that how you will treat your fellow soldiers when you disagree by saying they do not exist? You have never had to deal with cocaine being shoved in your face. I am only speaking facts that when I called admissions they had no compassion for my story. They did not get where I came from and how I grew up and were not open minded to people who grew up differently. I only attacked people on here who attacked me. I call it like I see it and my comm college was looked down upon and I can here it in your tone. You assume I am not as good as you which is racism. I will enlist and prove all of the doubters wrong. I will be great
That's precisely it! You clink around your little tin cup demanding everyone give alms in the form of pity and opportunities to which you are not entitled. You accuse us of not knowing all the stuff you've gone through, but that's the precise crime you're guilty of! You come here feeling that you've got the market cornered on hard knocks. But you have no idea what in the hell people have gone through. Trust me, however bad you have it, someone has had it worse and done more in the face of that adversity. Adversity is the human experience boiled down to one word! Everyone experiences it, and when it boils down to it no one will care about your past. They will care about the present and how well you perform. There is no excuse for failure. One of the four responses of a cadet is "no excuse, sir/ma'am" not "woe is me, sir/ma'am".

I can honestly say I hope you do prove me wrong.
 

BobbyW123

Banned
That's precisely it! You clink around your little tin cup demanding everyone give alms in the form of pity and opportunities to which you are not entitled. You accuse us of not knowing all the stuff you've gone through, but that's the precise crime you're guilty of! You come here feeling that you've got the market cornered on hard knocks. But you have no idea what in the hell people have gone through. Trust me, however bad you have it, someone has had it worse and done more in the face of that adversity. Adversity is the human experience boiled down to one word! Everyone experiences it, and when it boils down to it no one will care about your past. They will care about the present and how well you perform. There is no excuse for failure. One of the four responses of a cadet is "no excuse, sir/ma'am" not "woe is me, sir/ma'am".

I can honestly say I hope you do prove me wrong.
BSCAR you need to be nicer to people. We could have been friends if you did not roast me. I am a hard working individual who has had it rough, but I am very athletic and social so I will be fine. I am going to go to West Point and show people how to live life correctly.
 
Bobby, Earlier today I challenged you to not take things so personal. This was on the other forum. It looks like you didn't step up to the challenge.
If you are truly serious about serving this country in the military you need to talk to some mentors that can help you. Maybe a trusted coach, teacher, clergy, or family member can help you.
Where you are in your life, at least by the way you're responding to people on this forum, indicates you're not ready.
Good Luck to you young man.
 
BobbyW, everyone on this forum wants you to succeed. Our country needs you to succeed. America is great because young people like you pull themselves up by their bootstraps and succeed. The other posters on this forum are not disrespecting you; rather, they are letting you know that there are many others who have endured hardships. Yes, you are a minority. Yes, you have overcome drugs. Yes, you are pushing yourself to be the best you can be. Yes, you can do it.

When it comes to applying to the service academies, there are the absolute rock stars in terms of academic and/or athletic stardom. After that, there are some amazing worker bees who have generated above average ACT scores, class rank, athletic accomplishments, leadership experience, etc. Those candidates have a story to tell, in addition to their WC scores. As much as you might think your life story is unique, you are competing against the best and brightest that America has to offer--in all categories, in all walks of life.

Yes, you have suffered and overcome hardship, but you are not alone in that department among service academy applicants. There are many other candidates who have a compelling story to tell WP admissions about overcoming real adversity. I am not talking about losing the state championship game or even failing a class. Some applicants have lived on the streets. Some applicants have lived in orphanages. Some applicants have parents who are chemically dependent. Some applicants have experienced abuse. Some applicants have watched a parent die from a gunshot. My point is that adversity knows no bounds.

BobbyW, I know you will succeed regardless of where you land. Drive and ambition are determining factors when it comes to improving your initial lot in life. Reach for the stars. Work on your ACT/SAT score. Apply to WP. However, every successful person has a backup plan. Every successful person has overcome failure. Maybe WP will offer you a prep school slot. But, make sure that you--not WP--controls where you land. Apply to the Senior Military Colleges. Consider enlistment, if you really want to service this great country. There is more than one way to become an officer in the US Army.

You can do it, BobbyW. Focus on your ultimate goal--serving this great country as an Army officer. No excuses. Make it happen.

Godspeed, young man.
 

jagger19

Member
I am going to ignore your disrespect for one minute to answer your long remark. You have no right to come in here and act like you know my story. On this forum you have called me horrible things and even prayed I was not real. That hurts. Is that how you will treat your fellow soldiers when you disagree by saying they do not exist? You have never had to deal with cocaine being shoved in your face. I am only speaking facts that when I called admissions they had no compassion for my story. They did not get where I came from and how I grew up and were not open minded to people who grew up differently. I only attacked people on here who attacked me. I call it like I see it and my comm college was looked down upon and I can here it in your tone. You assume I am not as good as you which is racism. I will enlist and prove all of the doubters wrong. I will be great
Alright, I'm going to tell it to you like it is. You aren't special because your life was hard. I myself had to deal with a drug addicted mom and neighbors while taking care of my younger sibling, while ALSO maintaining good grades and having strong community involvement. I worked my *** off for a chance to come this Academy, and I am not going to let you think that you are special or deserve an appointment because your life had some drugs in it. I did not deserve an appointment - I earned my appointment.
 
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