My Reason Why


Mike, you may want to take a deep breath and reread this 7 page thread slowly. You got plenty of great advice. I am sure we even discussed Norwich at length.

And if you go to Norwich you “might” end up an officer. So far assuming you will might be a stretch.

As always——good luck.
 
At this point, I am considering attending Norwich University - I got a crap-load of financial aid from them... It would cost me approximately $10k/yr, plus I got invited to the Scholars program to apply as they identified me as a strong candidate.

I may take that on...

$40k/4yrs isn't a bad deal, and in the end I'll become an officer.
Honestly, I don't think 40K all in is that bad. I don't love the idea of going into debt but I can understand that you have limited choicees. Does that include you working during the summer? You could make a big dent in that by working for 4 summers. However, you can't take more than $5500-$7500 in loans each year by yourself. You will need a co-signer.
 
Either way - he has been given a world of knowledge. I have personally reached out to talk and got a cryptic response about not being able to communicate. He is definitely not ready to enlist - he will get chewed up and spit out at boot camp. By his own admission, he is not in good shape - not a good place at PI/SD.

One last time - I can help you with Norwich. Aside from that - not sure what else to say.
 
Here is where I honestly need a bit of advice, my recruiters gave me a couple of options of what I could potentially do...

1) Since my birthday is August 2nd, they could move my ship-date just a bit past my birthday - hence my dad cannot stop me from going at that point.
- Note: Although this is possible, I don't know about my situation with my family - and what will happen; possibly could result in a irrepariable damage.

2) I could just discharge out of DEP, and go to college, go into Debt, and hence become an officer.


My mind is so clouded right now, and even my recruiters are suggesting I go with Option 1, therefore not letting my dad stop me from excelling to my full potential.
Note that OF COURSE THE RECRUITERS ARE SUGGESTING OPTION 1

That is what they get paid to do.

They are there to get guys to ship. . . not to be your friend.
 
Michael, I just don't have words.

You have done 180 degree turns on this forum multiple times.

It does make me wonder if you are a troll.
Exactly.

I’ve seen your website and Instagram. You need to stop playing, and get serious. It’s really NOT that hard.

Enlist
Go to school
Or get a job

The choice of what to do is yours. No one else’s. Plenty of young adults are confused. It’s normal. Plenty of young adults step away from home. THATS normal.

You can’t predict the future (Officer ascension is not guaranteed, and is highly competitive). All you can do is make your choice, jump in with both feet, cross your fingers and wish for the best.

My guess, is that your self doubts are projecting onto your dad. Maybe he knows you aren’t really ready for this. My sense from your posts is that you are the type of person that likes to be in control. And thinks they CAN control the journey. But you cannot. ESPECIALLY AT BOOT CAMP.

You DO have choices. But based upon what I’ve followed here? I would recommend a year of schooling and living on your own first. You can alwayssss enlist. But get a good solid adult footing on the ground, first. And living on your own.

Over your postings, MANY forum members have taken lots of time advising you. Really good advice here. Loooots of it.

As my grandma always said ‘either poo or get off the pot”. Pretty much, that’s it. Make a decision, and make it happen. It’s really NOT that hard.
 
Either way - he has been given a world of knowledge. I have personally reached out to talk and got a cryptic response about not being able to communicate. He is definitely not ready to enlist - he will get chewed up and spit out at boot camp. By his own admission, he is not in good shape - not a good place at PI/SD.

One last time - I can help you with Norwich. Aside from that - not sure what else to say.
I will definitely accept this!
 
Mike does not need advice so much as a somewhat informed audience to bounce his ideas off. He has gotten loads of advice and suggestions many of which he did not respond back on.

Do that standard list thing. Pros and cons short bullets no long essays.

—USMC enlisted

—USAF and Navy enlisted

—Emery Riddle college

—Norwich

—State schools in Indiana

Lets hope that’s all

I still don’t understand why you are not considering the AF or Navy. You claim you want to serve you claim your dad will support. You can lean technical type of stuff. You can take 4 years and mature. Boot camp will be easier and less stressful. And you can get smarter. And in better shape. And then go to college while on AD or after with the help of the GIBill after.

Many of us here have taken this same approach for the same reasons——we were really not ready for college. And I will bet that all'of us that went this way on this forum did a lot better post enlisted than pre enlisted as far as college and life.

you can serve, learn, make money and grow

It seems like a perfect solution and would be what I would suggest to my own if they were in your shoes.

I never thought your dad was wrong. He knows you best. Right now in your shape and head space the yellow foot prints were not for you.

How about some short pro and cons list——things might seem clearer after.
 
I have done that approach, nonetheless...

I will visit Norwich next month, and probably make my decision very soon about the place.

Thank you for the advice.


I'd honestly feel stupid to deny a SMC school for 10k/yr, after 55k/yr in scholarships!
 
I declared a few pages back that I was swearing off this thread. But some things — sadly, very sadly — are an irresistible force. Like turning our heads to witness a car wreck. 😬

@MichaelT2022, like just about everyone here, I say this with respect and good intentions: You are not ready for — or are in good position to — join an officer-accession program or take on debt to attend a four-year college. And I’m not sure enlisting is right for you either — at least in the next year or two.

You need a year or two to mature, to become a young adult, to live outside your father’s constraints, to make some real-life but low-risk decisions, and to test your conviction to be a Marine. And the best place for that is community college. Many very successful people have begun adulthood on this path. There is no shame in it, only opportunity for growth if taken seriously.

Unless he is abusive in some way, you will need and want your father’s love and support and presence for the rest of your life — whether you join the military or not, but especially if you do. It’s not worth defying and alienating him to do something — enlist in the Marines — that you don’t seem cut out for at this time and even seem fearful of. The Marines declare “every man a rifleman,” yet you’ve stated your desire to avoid combat, your preference for a behind-the-lines job, your lack of physical fitness, your fear of getting hurt at boot camp. I agree with those who say, in your current state and with your approach, you’d likely get chewed up and spit out. That’s just not worth ruining your relationship with your father.

You’ve been too close, too involved, too invested, too obsessed with this looming decision of how to join the military. You desperately need the perspective of someone who has stepped away from it all to clear their head. So go to community college for a year or two, experience what it means to be an adult, and then re-engage in the possibility of a military path — and whether it’s still what you want, how badly you want it, and whether there are paths you hadn’t yet considered.

One or two years from now, the Marines will still be there. As will be the Army and Air Force and Navy and Coast Guard. As well as non-military paths that may not seem right at this time, but could very well be the correct one for you.

The choice du jour — du minute? — seems to be Norwich with $40,000 debt. No one with your level of indecisiveness and vacillation should take on that kind of debt. It merely seems like the best of some poor options right now. Just don’t do it!

Who knows. Maybe you’ll someday become a general or an admiral. Or a sergeant major or a master chief petty officer. Or have a shorter and less distinguished — but nonetheless successful and honorable — military career. But it ain’t gonna happen on the path you’re on. Invest less time in publicly waffling on SAF, spend more time developing your maturity.

And with that, I’m officially out. 😐
 
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Less (slightly less) than 60% of Norwich students graduate within 6 years. Over (slightly over) 20% don’t last past freshmen year .

And as I remember Mike will need to work part time to gain $$.. Making 4 years to graduation all that much harder.

And I still don’t understand why you have never once addressed enlisting in the AF or Navy then going to college after.


and it looks to me that only about 25% of Norwich grads get a commission. I have no idea how many tried and did not get one vs how many never tried.

There is a lot to consider.
 
I declared a few pages back that I was swearing off this thread. But some things — sadly, very sadly — are an irresistible force. Like turning our heads to witness a car wreck. 😬

@MichaelT2022, like just about everyone here, I say this with respect and good intentions: You are not ready for — or are in good position to — join an officer-accession program or take on debt to attend a four-year college. And I’m not sure enlisting is right for you either — at least in the next year or two.

You need a year or two to mature, to become a young adult, to live outside your father’s constraints, to make some real-life but low-risk decisions, and to test your conviction to be a Marine. And the best place for that is community college. Many very successful people have begun adulthood on this path. There is no shame in it, only opportunity for growth if taken seriously.

Unless he is abusive in some way, you will need and want your father’s love and support and presence for the rest of your life — whether you join the military or not, but especially if you do. It’s not worth defying and alienating him to do something — enlist in the Marines — that you don’t seem cut out for at this time and even seem fearful of. The Marines declare “every man a rifleman,” yet you’ve stated your desire to avoid combat, your preference for a behind-the-lines job, your lack of physical fitness, your fear of getting hurt at boot camp. I agree with those who say, in your current state and with your approach, you’d likely get chewed up and spit out. That’s just not worth ruining your relationship with your father.

You’ve been too close, too involved, too invested, too obsessed with this looming decision of how to join the military. You desperately need the perspective of someone who has stepped away from it all to clear their head. So go to community college for a year or two, experience what it means to be an adult, and then re-engage in the possibility of a military path — and whether it’s still what you want, how badly you want it, and whether there are paths you hadn’t yet considered.

One or two years from now, the Marines will still be there. As will be the Army and Air Force and Navy and Coast Guard. As well as non-military paths that may not seem right at this time, but could very well be correct.

The choice du jour — du minute? — seems to be Norwich with $40,000 debt. No one with your level of indecisiveness and vacillation should take on that kind of debt. It merely seems like the best of some poor options right now. Just don’t do it!

Who knows. Maybe you’ll someday become a general or an admiral. Or a sergeant major or a master chief petty officer. Or have a shorter and less distinguished — but nonetheless successful and honorable — military career. But it ain’t gonna happen on the path you’re on. Invest less time in publicly waffling on SAF, spend more time developing your maturity.

And with that, I’m officially out. 😐

Absolutely all of this. 100 pct all of this. I pray you are open to actually listening to the advice you seek. Bc it all points to the same. Take a couple years and grow up. Mature. Then decide. Every parent here, at least the majority of us, recognize that you need this in you, as you present yourself in posts here. All your enlistment options will still be there for you. And you will be in a better emotional/physical/mature place with some years of growth in your rear view mirror.

Nothing wrong with Norwich. And EVERYONE gets financial aid at a private school. Don’t fool yourself into thinking that’s exceptional. And don’t base your decision on THAT ‘flattery’ recruiting piece, either. It’s the same method your military recruiter is using. Nothing wrong with it, it’s their job. Recruitment is recruitment (flattery, ego stroking being a big piece), whether for the Marines or for a school.

You do you. Not even sure any of this ‘advice you seek’ is really desired, or not. But everything has been covered, ad nauseam.
 
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I don’t want to belabor this

But several are down playing enlisting now.

For a young bright person that wants to serve but is not ready for real life or college enlisting can be perfect. Far better IMO than living on your own working while sharing an apt with buddies. Or taking 5 years to graduate college with debt and a C average.

In the military as an enlisted they will force you to grow up, to learn to study, to mature.

As a former enlisted myself I may see this a bit different than you elitist officers :)

Seriouly I served with many and was myself very much like Mike.

Enlisting not a failed or at best mediocre experience at college, not working some job and living with buddies hoping to mature, but serving your country in a real job , that is actually important , and unless someone turns out to be a complete dud (and you are not) then most do really well and come,out better.

You do need the right job and maybe the right service. But that you can somewhat control that. No one it seems thinks the USMC is what you are ready for right now.

And 4 or 5 years later you have the GIBill and are on your way to graduating with college honors.
 
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Michael,

I have never commented on any of your posts. I couldn't figure out if you were a troll or just really as confused and as indecisive as you appear to be. You have been given a wealth of advice through many posted threads this one included. I have no real advice to offer but I can share a few stories with you. This will be a long post.

My father enlisted in the Navy towards the end of WWII. He was not 18 yet so his father signed in order for him to enlist. He and his father butted heads a lot. My father was very strong willed. His relationship with his father was not a good one. My father lost his mother to cancer while he was away. His father died 6 months later from a heart attack. My father could not pass the test to become an officer. He took the test twice but his writing skills were just not where they needed to be. Lots of people actually would mistake my father for an officer because of the way he carried himself. My father was a man's man. Most people think of their fathers as Superman, but I knew growing up that my father could take on Superman and win. My father had earned his GI bill but it went unused because he got married and started a family. He met my mother while attending a night school college prep class. He thought it was more important to take care of his wife/family than to go to school (Purdue-electrical engineering--I never knew this until I was getting ready to start my freshman year at Purdue.) He never spoke an ill word about his parents and he carried their pictures in his wallet until he died.

Someone I know but have never met in person but respect very much enlisted in the Marines at 18. He grew up poor and in what was known at the time as the projects. He would get into all types of trouble. A judge told him he should join the Marines or the next time he ended up in court he was going away. He has continued to use what the Marines taught him through out his life. After the Marines, he has had a very successful career in sales/financial industry. This man is retired quite comfortably and so will his kids.

My son's classmate graduated this past June. This classmate was part of JROTC and did not apply to any academies or for any ROTC scholarships due to test scores being too low and poor grades. This classmate enlisted in the Navy, attended boot camp towards the end of summer, attended their first school/graduated, is now an E-3, and will pick up E-4 at the end of this second school currently attending. The fast track and still going.

Another classmate of my son's joined the Marine Reserves and graduated bootcamp at the end of summer. This person is currently attending college using the GI bill. The mother of this person was not happy about this choice but this person turned 18 early during senior year.

My son attends an out of state college on scholarship. We really wanted him to go out of state. We felt even living on campus locally he wouldn't learn to be as self reliant and grow. We thought of our own college experiences and how much we both grew during that first year away from home. Being out of state my son has to make decisions in regards to his life. He is responsible for the choices he makes good or bad. He has to deal with any issues or problems that arise. He doesn't text/email/call with problems asking what to do. When he shares an issue or problem with us it isn't until after he has taken steps to deal with it. He rarely shares. He is enjoying living his life and finding out who he is.

Michael, I didn't know what I wanted to do my senior year of high school either. You will find your way. It is good that you respect your father enough to follow his rules while you are living in his house and he is supporting you. Once you are 18 you will need to make a decision. If you continue to live in his house with or without support, you will need to continue to abide by his rules/wishes or face the consequences. If at 18 you choose to follow a path that is different than the one your father wants for you, you need to present it to your father as an adult and you need to be prepared to walk away. You need to do what you feel is best for you, not your father. It is your life. Becoming/being an adult is not always easy. Life can be hard. Good luck Michael! I wish you the best where ever your chosen path leads you.
 
I have read every message on this thread and the amount of advice and effort that everyone has offered is astounding. I am 17 so I understand the position. Sometimes we fixate ourselves on some things and refuse to open our eyes to the rest of the world because we are young and dumb. We ask for "advice" because everyone in our immediate family says that the thing we are fixated on is a bad idea. But we don't care what they think because the level of fixation has clouded our judgement. This leads us to ask a larger group of people, who typically know nothing about us, for "advice." We aren't looking for advice. Our family gave us advice and we turned it down. We are looking for someone, just one, to validate our choice, our fixation, so that we can say "hey, that dude said it was a good idea so I'm going to go do it." even though everyone else, the other 30 people, said that it was a bad idea. That's how a young and dumb high school kid thinks, and I think that it may be the case with Mike. Just my thoughts.

V/R

Hatchet
 
Edit to post #35 Oops! It seems I have commented on a previous post of yours. Getting older every year can have some downsides in regards to memory.
 
Michael,

Me; Father of three, two boys, one girl, each ten years apart, currently 38, 28, 18. My 18-year-old is my baby girl. My oldest was Navy Seabee, (Iraq). My middle son, Masters Degree, teaches Statistics at a California university. My daughter is currently at NAPS, USNA class of 2026, Marine select.
I was enlisted, SGT. USMC.
I tried my hardest to talk my daughter out of the Corps. My USN. mustang wife, LT- (03E), asked me if I would try so hard to talk her out of it if she was a boy. That was a slap upside the head.
I do not pretend to know why your Dad is so intent on keeping you out of the Corps. For me, it was trying to protect my daughter from what I already knew she would endure. I had to remember why I wanted to be a Marine. I needed to accept my own daughter wanted that too. It is a heartfelt calling only a few will understand. This forum is filled with many who have answered that call.
Now my advice as a Sergeant of Marines. If it is your desire to become a Marine do so. But, I recommend going to the Officer Corps. You will have greater opportunities to grow in education and leadership, thus being able to lead Marines if that is your desire. I went enlisted first and was a high school dropout. The rules then allowed me to enlist anyway. I received my GED while on Embassy Duty and now have two college degrees. I would do it differently if I could, by going to college first and then the Corps. That is what my daughter is doing now and this is the path I would recommend to those seeking similar advice.

All the best with your choices & Semper Fi.
 
What does your dad want you to do if he doesn’t want you to enlist and doesn’t want to assist with college?
I guess I am on the pay me no mind list. A lot of information to take in here. There is nothing wrong with enlisting I am very proud of my service and without it I would not be where I am today. Going the officer route is also great but I am not a fan of going into debt to get a degree especially if you are not prepared to enter college financially or mentally. Enlisting also gives you the GI bill which is pretty great. (Much better than the one I had)

As far as the Marines go I’ll say this and I have said it before on here. You go in the Marines for one reason and one reason only. To become a Marine. You can do all the other stuff in any other branch. As others have said don’t discount looking into other branches.

You need grit, it will take you as far as you are willing to go.

If you want a degree you don’t have to get it right now, you can get it later but you must remain focused on your goal whatever that is. It may include a degree and it may not. There are many ways to become successful don’t be closed minded but be focused.
 
Michael,

Me; Father of three, two boys, one girl, each ten years apart, currently 38, 28, 18. My 18-year-old is my baby girl. My oldest was Navy Seabee, (Iraq). My middle son, Masters Degree, teaches Statistics at a California university. My daughter is currently at NAPS, USNA class of 2026, Marine select.
I was enlisted, SGT. USMC.
I tried my hardest to talk my daughter out of the Corps. My USN. mustang wife, LT- (03E), asked me if I would try so hard to talk her out of it if she was a boy. That was a slap upside the head.
I do not pretend to know why your Dad is so intent on keeping you out of the Corps. For me, it was trying to protect my daughter from what I already knew she would endure. I had to remember why I wanted to be a Marine. I needed to accept my own daughter wanted that too. It is a heartfelt calling only a few will understand. This forum is filled with many who have answered that call.
Now my advice as a Sergeant of Marines. If it is your desire to become a Marine do so. But, I recommend going to the Officer Corps. You will have greater opportunities to grow in education and leadership, thus being able to lead Marines if that is your desire. I went enlisted first and was a high school dropout. The rules then allowed me to enlist anyway. I received my GED while on Embassy Duty and now have two college degrees. I would do it differently if I could, by going to college first and then the Corps. That is what my daughter is doing now and this is the path I would recommend to those seeking similar advice.

All the best with your choices & Semper Fi.
Yessir, I do plan to go the officer route... I highly seek to still commission into the Marine Corps.

I am going to visit Norwich University soon, and hopefully make a decision. As I had mentioned in my previous posts, dropping my yearly tuition from 65k/yr to around 12k/yr is honestly a deal I don't want to pass up.

I did see a statistic that not all Cadets earn a commission once they graduate, hence if that happens to me... I would still plan to attend OCS.
 
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