Amen!
My TWE
- Thread starter jasongerman9
- Start date
futuremarinemom
5-Year Member
- Joined
- Mar 8, 2012
- Messages
- 159
Memphis9489
15-Year Member
- Joined
- Oct 27, 2008
- Messages
- 1,389
That's you BGO's theory?
All the things you mentioned are quantified and goes into calculating the candidates WPM (Whole Person Multiple). Your BGO shouldn't need to theorize about that.
A candidate's WPM is going to play a huge role in gaining an appointment. That doesn't necessarily mean those with the highest WPMs will get appointments because there are geographic requirements, diversity objectives and, of course, there are the recruited athletes.
HardCharger
5-Year Member
- Joined
- Mar 15, 2013
- Messages
- 32
I don't understand the geographic factor. That should be covered through the MOCs. Don't all the non selected candidates compete objectively in the NWP?
Hardcharger --
From what I've heard, only 50 or so people get offered appointments from the pool each year -- it is a highly, highly competitive process.
I was curious, so I looked up your stats from a prior post. Being very candid, here's what I'd say after looking at them:
Scores -- very strong
Class rank -- strong but not amazing (if only top 10% of class and not higher)
Leadership -- About average (band president, volunteering, church group)
Athletics -- Mediocre (3 varsity letters during high school -- unless I misread this and you've gotten more? -- but good performance on CFA)
If you'd told me your stats in September, I'd have said -- "looks great, but Virginia is really competitive and only 100 people get in with Presidential nominations, so apply to more than one service academy." Which you did, wisely.
You never know, lightning may strike and you get pulled out of the pool -- but you may be dealing with people who are valedictorians, 12-varsity-letter-winners, class presidents, or all of the above, who are also playing the waiting game.
If you can channel all this into a desire to excel, great, but don't let it turn into bitterness or a feeling of "I shouldn't be here gasping out my lungs in this cool crisp high altitude air, I should be sweating my a___ off in hot humid sea level Annapolis" once you're at USAFA.
From what I've heard, only 50 or so people get offered appointments from the pool each year -- it is a highly, highly competitive process.
I was curious, so I looked up your stats from a prior post. Being very candid, here's what I'd say after looking at them:
Scores -- very strong
Class rank -- strong but not amazing (if only top 10% of class and not higher)
Leadership -- About average (band president, volunteering, church group)
Athletics -- Mediocre (3 varsity letters during high school -- unless I misread this and you've gotten more? -- but good performance on CFA)
If you'd told me your stats in September, I'd have said -- "looks great, but Virginia is really competitive and only 100 people get in with Presidential nominations, so apply to more than one service academy." Which you did, wisely.
You never know, lightning may strike and you get pulled out of the pool -- but you may be dealing with people who are valedictorians, 12-varsity-letter-winners, class presidents, or all of the above, who are also playing the waiting game.
If you can channel all this into a desire to excel, great, but don't let it turn into bitterness or a feeling of "I shouldn't be here gasping out my lungs in this cool crisp high altitude air, I should be sweating my a___ off in hot humid sea level Annapolis" once you're at USAFA.
HardCharger
5-Year Member
- Joined
- Mar 15, 2013
- Messages
- 32
You must be my father cause that is what he is telling me. Regarding my top 10% I was shocked to see my class ranking. The standard deviation is very small and competition is so tight. I believe my school graduates everyone in the top 10% (as long a above a 4.0) validictorian as a recognition of the competition remember I had only one B freshman year. My class standing is going to move higher as my 5 AP classes see to that. Regarding the athletic performance in retrospect I stuck with the band too long but I do play 3 instruments. It consumed too much of my time and remember also that I worked 12 hours a week. Regarding the AFA I am not sure I will attend as I do have other excellent opportunities. All along my comments have focused on unqualified people getting appointed at my expense and other candidates as well (there was an asian american earlier post that sounds like he would beat me out everyday of the week- I am ok with losing to the better candidate). But the others...it is not right... this is 2013 not 1960. This country is about earned opportunity not granted through political means. Your words are encouraging so I will remember them.
Well, I'm probably a little younger than your dad but if he's talking like me he must be a great guy!
I like your screen name, being a hard charger will carry you far, including, I'm sure, to a successful career at USAFA and beyond, or in ROTC, or outside the military altogether.And the Supreme Court might be agreeing with you on affirmative action in education generally pretty soon, although I still think the academies may get deference if they argue diversity is necessary to their military mission. I can tell you (as a plain old white male from Boston) that the Navy (and the Marine Corps to some extent) have a very mixed historical reputation in the African-American community because of the long history of segregation and discrimination. They are very hesitant about encouraging their "best and brightest" to get a commission. On the other end of things, I can guarantee you that African-Americans in the Marines wouldn't prefer an incompetent black officer to a good white one, but it does inspire and motivate the enlisted guys to see someone "who looks like them" drawing that sword out in front of the formation. I don't know where I come down on this whole issue -- glad it's above my pay grade -- but I can at least see the argument that diversity in the officer corps furthers the military mission.
Anyway, enough sermonizing -- good luck, go get 'em in BCT (if you go to USAFA), or ROTC, or just regular ol' college (pretty great too, they tell me).
Race Blind
Following is the stat from UC Berkeley. Do you think it's fair? If all top tier university goes "race blind", you will see similar stat. As Asian American, my DS accepted the appointment to USMA 2017, declined USNA 2017 and declined AROTC.
Don't worries about things you do not have any control over. Do your best and compete with the best!
BTW - USMA accepted approximately 7% Asian-American, lowest of any ethnicity that applied.
Percentage Distribution of New Freshman Admits by Ethnicity
Fall 2008 through Fall 2012
Ethnicity Fall 2008 Fall 2009 Fall 2010 Fall 2011 Fall 2012
American Indian 0.5% 0.5% 0.8% 0.8% 0.8%
African American 3.1% 3.2% 3.3% 3.4% 3.6%
Chicano/Latino 12.8% 13.3% 12.6% 13.8% 15.3%
Asian American 40.7% 41.7% 42.0% 45.5% 45.9%
White 33.7% 34.0% 33.8% 32.8% 30.1%
Other 1.3% 1.2% * * *
Not Given 7.9% 6.1% 7.5% 3.7% 4.3%
Subtotal-American Indian,
African American,
Chicano, Latino 16.3% 16.4% 16.6% 18.0% 19.7%
Following is the stat from UC Berkeley. Do you think it's fair? If all top tier university goes "race blind", you will see similar stat. As Asian American, my DS accepted the appointment to USMA 2017, declined USNA 2017 and declined AROTC.
Don't worries about things you do not have any control over. Do your best and compete with the best!
BTW - USMA accepted approximately 7% Asian-American, lowest of any ethnicity that applied.
Percentage Distribution of New Freshman Admits by Ethnicity
Fall 2008 through Fall 2012
Ethnicity Fall 2008 Fall 2009 Fall 2010 Fall 2011 Fall 2012
American Indian 0.5% 0.5% 0.8% 0.8% 0.8%
African American 3.1% 3.2% 3.3% 3.4% 3.6%
Chicano/Latino 12.8% 13.3% 12.6% 13.8% 15.3%
Asian American 40.7% 41.7% 42.0% 45.5% 45.9%
White 33.7% 34.0% 33.8% 32.8% 30.1%
Other 1.3% 1.2% * * *
Not Given 7.9% 6.1% 7.5% 3.7% 4.3%
Subtotal-American Indian,
African American,
Chicano, Latino 16.3% 16.4% 16.6% 18.0% 19.7%
Memphis9489
15-Year Member
- Joined
- Oct 27, 2008
- Messages
- 1,389
Where'd you find that information? Just curious. Most academies do not make that kind of information available until after the class is admitted.
Also, USNA, much more than the other academies, has been hyper-focused into seeking ethnicity diversity the past 5 (or so) years since it was declared as their "#1 priority". It got a lot of attention and a lot of criticism. The previous superintendent of the Naval Academy took tremendous heat.
The Class of 2013 was hailed as the "most diverse" class in academy history. The academy was screaming it from the mountain tops to anybody who would listen. The next year, with the same mechanisms in place that created the previous class, the Class of 2014 was even more diverse ... not a peep about diversity.
feartheterp
5-Year Member
- Joined
- Aug 13, 2012
- Messages
- 20
What you have here is the class COMPOSITION. This is much different than the acceptance rate by ethnicity. Your claim that "USMA accepted only 7% of Asian-American candidates" is flawed. I believe you got the composition confused with the acceptance rate. The entire class may be composed of just 7% Asian-American cadets, but the acceptance rate was probably higher than 7% for Asian-Americans.
To make things simple, lets assume we have a class of 10 students. Here is the composition by ethnicity:
African-American: 3 (30% of class)
Asian-American: 1 (10% of class)
Caucasian: 6 (60% of class)
Simply because Asian-Americans make up 10% of the class does NOT mean it is any harder to gain admission. Assume there were only two Asian-Americans that applied. In that case, the acceptance rate for Asian-Americans would be 50%. Further, let's assume that 100 Caucasians applied. The acceptance rate for Caucasians would be just 6%. Even though the composition makes it look like it is harder for Asian-Americans to gain entry, it may not be true. Don't be fooled by statistics; take a close look at the data before you draw conclusions.
Moving away from my simplification, the SAs do not admit equal percentages of ethnicities because the applicant pool is not equal. There are MANY more caucasian males that apply compared to any other group. Therefore, caucasian males are the majority because they have many more applicants than other ethnicities.
We can speculate about how race/ethnic heritage plays into the admissions process all day long, but it does not solve anything. Admittedly, there probably are some ethnic factors that go into the admissions decision. But the fact is, it does not make that much of a difference. If you want to earn an appointment, it is YOUR responsibility to make your package so great that admissions can't say no.
For the record, I am a white male that received a TWE for USNA c/o 2016 and 2017.
Last edited:
GoBlue1984
5-Year Member
- Joined
- Dec 5, 2012
- Messages
- 282
"Diversity" can include geography. In other words, a Caucasian from Nebraska may add diversity to the class and force that otherwise wouldn't be there. Why, since Nebraska has proportional MOC noms? Because there are a lot of reasons that Nebraska is under-represented in the Navy.
I don't know about USNA, but USMA must offer the top 150 off the NWL by WCS -- but then are not restricted as to how they pull the next 150 off the list (since this is by law, I suspect that it is consistent between USAFA, USNA, & USMA). Say there are 10 candidates from Northern VA who are in the top 150 and you are ranked #152. That means that along with the MOC appointees from VA, there are now an additional 10 appointees from VA. USNA can look down to #180 who is from underrepresented Nebraska. Notice ethnicity did not, necessarily, have anything to do with it.
You are coming from an ultra-competitive state for the USNA which just makes the bar that much higher. In contrast - if you lived in Denver, USAFA would be the harder stretch.
Yes, in statistic you can draw many conclusions, interpretations...However, my point is the same as yours, work hard and do not worries about something you cannot control and let your own stat shine.