Need advice

Yellowfish03

Member
Joined
Jul 10, 2022
Messages
10
So, I'm going into an NROTC unit at a pretty great school.
I'm not on scholarship, I'm a "college programmer" fwi
And I am really bad at math. An hour of study for an ordinary person is like 4 hours for me.
Am I totally screwed in wanting to join NROTC? Am I better off being a Marine option?
Also, everyone in my unit will be at NSI sometime this summer. And I won't be, will that really set me behind?
 
So, I'm going into an NROTC unit at a pretty great school.
I'm not on scholarship, I'm a "college programmer" fwi
And I am really bad at math. An hour of study for an ordinary person is like 4 hours for me.
Am I totally screwed in wanting to join NROTC? Am I better off being a Marine option?
Also, everyone in my unit will be at NSI sometime this summer. And I won't be, will that really set me behind?
What active approaches are you taking to bolster your skills and confidence? Have your researched the academic help centers at your future college, to see what they offer in study skills and math skills improvement? Know exactly how to sign up the minute you arrive on campus? Tutoring resources available? Do you already know what your first math course is? Have you explored Khan Academy or other free online resources and dedicated regular time this summer to familiarize yourself with concepts and problem sets, so you are more confident and prepared for the college course?

Plan now to attend professor’s office hours and any extra instruction offered.

Do your best to figure out why you are “really bad at math.” You are setting yourself up for failure when you start with such a negative approach. If it’s a problem with time management, then you have to do some thinking about how you spend your “want to do time” vs your “must do time.” Is it sleep hygiene? Prioritization? How you organize the study approach? The college help center can assist with that.

Take NROTC one step at a time. Work hard at being a good midshipman. Maintain satisfactory grades. Those are your two big rocks.
 
What active approaches are you taking to bolster your skills and confidence? Have your researched the academic help centers at your future college, to see what they offer in study skills and math skills improvement? Know exactly how to sign up the minute you arrive on campus? Tutoring resources available? Do you already know what your first math course is? Have you explored Khan Academy or other free online resources and dedicated regular time this summer to familiarize yourself with concepts and problem sets, so you are more confident and prepared for the college course?

Plan now to attend professor’s office hours and any extra instruction offered.

Do your best to figure out why you are “really bad at math.” You are setting yourself up for failure when you start with such a negative approach. If it’s a problem with time management, then you have to do some thinking about how you spend your “want to do time” vs your “must do time.” Is it sleep hygiene? Prioritization? How you organize the study approach? The college help center can assist with that.

Take NROTC one step at a time. Work hard at being a good midshipman. Maintain satisfactory grades. Those are your two big rocks.

Thank you for the advice on the math. Anything about not being at NSI and how that'll affect me?
 
Thank you for the advice on the math. Anything about not being at NSI and how that'll affect me?
I’ll page one of our resident NROTC leaders. @GWU PNS can no doubt authentically answer your question WRT NSI.

Be sure you show up fit and ready to sail through PRT tests and workouts!
 
I’ll page one of our resident NROTC leaders. @GWU PNS can no doubt authentically answer your question WRT NSI.

Be sure you show up fit and ready to sail through PRT tests and workouts!
Fitness is what I'm least worried about. I ran a 4:37 mile in High School and meet the standards for planks and push ups with ease.
However from lurking around these forums it seems like NSI also teaches you some things. Am I behind?
 
I’ll page one of our resident NROTC leaders. @GWU PNS can no doubt authentically answer your question WRT NSI.

Be sure you show up fit and ready to sail through PRT tests and workouts!
This year, the 3 iterations of NSI will cover about 70% of those selected for scholarship. Those who attend NSI do start off with a bit of an advantage, but nothing insurmountable. The real impact is you will attend NSI the next summer in place of CORTRAMID. You can still cover CORTRAMID as a rising 2/C so it isn't a huge setback.

As to your math, for NROTC, you must get through Calc I and II and Physics. If you need to take precalc to help prepare then try to work that into your plan. And let your NROTC advisor know up front you are math challenged.

To your question as to Navy or Marine Option, I'll defer to the Marines on here. But your primary motivation for being a Marine Officer should be more than simply "I'm lousy at math, so I'll be a Marine." Marine snipers do a whole lot of math in their head, even if they don't realize it 😎
 
For NROTC – Navy Option, as noted in great posts above, you’ll need to complete 2 semesters of Calc and of Physics and there are deadlines. The ability to not fail these courses are differentiators – some people cannot, and do not move forward with the Navy option path because they can’t get through it. There are no such requirements for the Marine option path in the navy.

Are you better off being a marine? Simple question – what do you want? Do you want to be a marine, are you exceptionally physically fit? Do you want to lead marines in combat, or fly them in and out of the theater of combat, or likely be in the theater of combat leading a key initiative (comm et al.)? Research the mission of all branches of the armed services and decide which may offer you the best fit. Why Navy? Have you looked into all options including Army/ Air Force? No math requirements in Army.
From: https://nrotc.vpul.upenn.edu/prospective/
  • Calculus – one year by end of sophomore year (not required for Nurse or Marine Corps option students)
  • Physics – one year of calculus-based physics by end of junior year (not required for Nurse or Marine Corps option students)

Not being at NSI is no big deal – it means you won’t have the foundation others have to start but no it’s not insurmountable – you’ll catch up in your first semester/ year. It also means you weren’t tested in a way that weeds out some participants.

Pursue or Drop? My Dad was a golden gloves boxer at an ivy league university many moons ago, and in boxing they have a towel – your corner can throw it in the ring to end a fight. Look, if this is really too uphill and if you absolutely cannot win against an opponent, zero chance, or have decided you can’t/won’t, then don’t let your fighter enter the ring. Throw in the towel. But if I were your parent or brother, I would tell you not to quit – yet. I think most of the time, it’s your attitude, resolve, grit, and preparation that will get you through challenges like this. Which is great training for life. Most of the time, you won’t regret trying. And you won’t regret using all resources/ help to get through this.

Good that you’re aware this may not be your strongest area. So, what can you do to overcome that? Here are a few suggestions.
  1. Get a foundation in math: Can you audit pre-calc at school this fall, take it next spring?
  2. Line up tutors. Use your university lab – be there to learn about this math and get more comfortable. Until you get each concept, keep asking for help. Your new hobby should be getting a foundation in math/ physics.
  3. Phone a friend – research rate my professor and take the one who helps non-math people get this material. Take the course with NROTC buddies and form study groups/ get through this.
  4. Isolate taking these courses – take it over the summer? You can only take it at any school that also has a NROTC detachment or cross-town affiliate so you may be able to take it at home over the summer or via remote instruction.
This is achievable, unless you quit before it starts, and unless you don't line yourself up to get through this.

A 4:37 mile? downhill/ on a bike? haha just kidding, that's outstanding. If you're in that elite of endurance/ shape, maybe you should take a look at the Marine mission and see if it lines up with your interests.

Good luck.
 
Thank you all for the help
For NROTC – Navy Option, as noted in great posts above, you’ll need to complete 2 semesters of Calc and of Physics and there are deadlines. The ability to not fail these courses are differentiators – some people cannot, and do not move forward with the Navy option path because they can’t get through it. There are no such requirements for the Marine option path in the navy.

Are you better off being a marine? Simple question – what do you want? Do you want to be a marine, are you exceptionally physically fit? Do you want to lead marines in combat, or fly them in and out of the theater of combat, or likely be in the theater of combat leading a key initiative (comm et al.)? Research the mission of all branches of the armed services and decide which may offer you the best fit. Why Navy? Have you looked into all options including Army/ Air Force? No math requirements in Army.
From: https://nrotc.vpul.upenn.edu/prospective/
  • Calculus – one year by end of sophomore year (not required for Nurse or Marine Corps option students)
  • Physics – one year of calculus-based physics by end of junior year (not required for Nurse or Marine Corps option students)

Not being at NSI is no big deal – it means you won’t have the foundation others have to start but no it’s not insurmountable – you’ll catch up in your first semester/ year. It also means you weren’t tested in a way that weeds out some participants.

Pursue or Drop? My Dad was a golden gloves boxer at an ivy league university many moons ago, and in boxing they have a towel – your corner can throw it in the ring to end a fight. Look, if this is really too uphill and if you absolutely cannot win against an opponent, zero chance, or have decided you can’t/won’t, then don’t let your fighter enter the ring. Throw in the towel. But if I were your parent or brother, I would tell you not to quit – yet. I think most of the time, it’s your attitude, resolve, grit, and preparation that will get you through challenges like this. Which is great training for life. Most of the time, you won’t regret trying. And you won’t regret using all resources/ help to get through this.

Good that you’re aware this may not be your strongest area. So, what can you do to overcome that? Here are a few suggestions.
  1. Get a foundation in math: Can you audit pre-calc at school this fall, take it next spring?
  2. Line up tutors. Use your university lab – be there to learn about this math and get more comfortable. Until you get each concept, keep asking for help. Your new hobby should be getting a foundation in math/ physics.
  3. Phone a friend – research rate my professor and take the one who helps non-math people get this material. Take the course with NROTC buddies and form study groups/ get through this.
  4. Isolate taking these courses – take it over the summer? You can only take it at any school that also has a NROTC detachment or cross-town affiliate so you may be able to take it at home over the summer or via remote instruction.
This is achievable, unless you quit before it starts, and unless you don't line yourself up to get through this.

A 4:37 mile? downhill/ on a bike? haha just kidding, that's outstanding. If you're in that elite of endurance/ shape, maybe you should take a look at the Marine mission and see if it lines up with your interests.

Good luck.
Thank you
 
If you do Advanced Standing no Calc or Physics
Good point. I’ll just add that many college programmers hope and compete for scholarships. While not required, calc and physics are strongly encouraged. Here, Attached is the KU unit official wording on this and advanced standing for anyone interested.
 

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Wait, seriously?
If my GPA and other stuff is good enough, I won't be required to take either if I qualify for advanced standing?
Yes. happened to my friend, but he is the only advanced standing person I have ever heard of not taking it, solely because of how recommended it was
 
Honestly, I wouldn't necessarily say that. I was tier three and struggled tremendously with calc and physics. Ended up being tutored about 10-15 hours a week for free through the unit/school tutor. Put additional 10+ hours by myself outside of that tutoring. Sucked because everyone else passed with eyes closed and flying colors, but I made it work. If you want it badly, you can make it happen.
 
So perhaps my odds are better of being a Marine Option, right?
Take it from someone who just completed 4/C year as a Marine option MIDN: it is not for the faint of heart.

If you are genuinely interested in the Corps, its mission, and leading Marines one day, then I agree that it is worth considering. But I would absolutely advise against committing to a Marine option track just because you feel you won't be able to perform in math. The MOIs and prior enlisted Marines who are completing their degrees in order to commission will pick up on a lack of interest or dedication and weed you out.

It's also worth remembering that if you choose MO and if you meet the physical and academic standards, you will attend 6 weeks of Officer Candidates School (OCS) in Quantico, VA after your 2/C year. I haven't been to OCS yet, so I won't pretend to speak from experience. However, I will say that several of our 2/C MIDN who attended OCS this year - who consistently scored 280s and above on their PFTs and also excelled academically - did not pass. I've been told that if you make it to 2/C year and OCS without knowing for sure that you want to be an officer of Marines - without having a why - then your career stops at OCS.

I struggle with math as well, so I understand feeling like you have to put in many more hours of study than your peers. But every university has course-specific tutoring available, and I imagine every NROTC unit has tutoring available as well. (Or, if nothing else, you will find older MIDN who did well in the classes you struggle in.)

I recently voluntarily left my unit due to a knee injury that persisted from the fall to the end of second semester. I am fortunately still eligible for other commissioning programs, but NROTC is not one of them. I will leave you with this: having to sign the drop on request paperwork was one of the hardest things I've ever done. I've come to love the Corps, and even though the days were long and there was no shortage of challenges, I have realized that I want nothing more than to be a Marine officer. If I had the chance to do it again, and all that stood in my way was my difficulties in math - something that can be solved by applying yourself and reaching out for help - I would take that chance in an instant.

Or, if you prefer, I'll phrase it the way my MOI once presented it to us: if you struggle with dedication now, even in the context of academics, how can you be trusted to dedicate yourself to leading and protecting Marines?
 
Take it from someone who just completed 4/C year as a Marine option MIDN: it is not for the faint of heart.
^^^ THIS x 100 ^^^

The Marine Corps is a calling, not a fallback. Don’t pursue a USMC officer’s commission because you’re poor at math. Do it because you want to lead Marines, full stop!
 
I'm gonna give it my all towards being a USMC officer.
If I'm doing this, I'm going to do it right.
I've already emailed our MOI and he's more then happy to have me switch over.
Thank you all for your advice.
 
I'm gonna give it my all towards being a USMC officer.
If I'm doing this, I'm going to do it right.
I've already emailed our MOI and he's more then happy to have me switch over.
Thank you all for your advice.
Good luck heading into the semester. Feel free to PM me with questions!
 
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