Nominated/Qualified Question

D

DeepWaters

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If I read the latest available stats correctly, there were 3,461 males nominated to the USMA, but only 1,818 of those nominees were qualified. Ultimately, 1,002 were admitted. Is this the common pattern, only a subset of the nominees are deemed qualified? I guess I was under the impression that if you were nominated, you had already met the qualifications. Seems inefficient if a MOC is spending time assessing applicants who are not ultimately going to be qualified. Or have I just misinterpreted the stats?
 
Here’s another perspective. Leave the stats out of it for a moment.

To be in play for an offer of appointment, the applicant must be medically (DODMERB qualified or DQ waivered), physically (acceptable score on CFA), scholastically (test scores, GPA, classes taken, all the other stuff in leadership, participation in various things) + at least one nomination. (Note: USCGA is not required to participate in nom system.

The real selection pool, then, is that group who is fully qualified with a nom.

The elected officials have no role in evaluating the other qualifications. That is the responsibility of the SA. The elected officials use any method they wish to evaluate, and choose how they want to submit their slate.

The nom process is a parallel activity to all the other application and evaluation activity going on. The nom process is a straightforward linear set of steps. All the other stuff done by the SA is going on in multiple parallel and sequential processes. Med waivers can still be hanging into April.

There are also several different nom sources. The service-related ones are a simple matter of eligibility. Some eligible for a Presidential can get their application rolling early, see the Presidential nom pop up in their portal, while still working their way through DODMERB, CFA, test score submission, etc.

If you haven’t yet read the Stickies at the very top of the Nominations and DODMERB forums, I recommend it.
 
I think there are a couple of factors primarily that lead to the delta you are looking at and wondering about. As Captain MJ astutely points out, DoDMERB physicals eliminate many candidates with nominations and I believe the physicals can occur even after the application deadlines for the MOC nominations - such was the case with my DS. I think another piece of the equation is that I suspect that most MOCs will give out their entire allotment of nominations without regard to the ultimate competitiveness of the candidate in regards to admission to the prospective service academy. It doesn't cost them anything, politically, to award their nominations and then let the academies decide who is in and who is out. So in what some would describe as "less competitive districts" you may have two candidates that are truly qualified from an academic/leadership/athletic perspective and eight that aren't and it's clear by looking at their "stats" that they likely won't make it. MOC issues 10 nominations. Those eight don't make it to 3Q with a nom. That increases your delta very quickly with the number of MOCs that are out there.
 
okboomer said:
I think there are a couple of factors primarily that lead to the delta you are looking at and wondering about. As Captain MJ astutely points out, DoDMERB physicals eliminate many candidates with nominations and I believe the physicals can occur even after the application deadlines for the MOC nominations - such was the case with my DS. I think another piece of the equation is that I suspect that most MOCs will give out their entire allotment of nominations without regard to the ultimate competitiveness of the candidate in regards to admission to the prospective service academy. It doesn't cost them anything, politically, to award their nominations and then let the academies decide who is in and who is out. So in what some would describe as "less competitive districts" you may have two candidates that are truly qualified from an academic/leadership/athletic perspective and eight that aren't and it's clear by looking at their "stats" that they likely won't make it. MOC issues 10 nominations. Those eight don't make it to 3Q with a nom. That increases your delta very quickly with the number of MOCs that are out there.
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I certainly disagree with that. MOCs are motivated to get as many people in their district into the academy as possible, whether it is by winning their slate or coming in via the NWL. They will therefore pick the most qualified candidates as recommended by their experienced interview committee.
 
All of these steps are happening in parallel and the due dates for nomination packets for MOCs are much earlier than the other steps. I would tell you that 25% of the nominated applicants that I see every year do not even complete the application.
 
kinnem said:
I certainly disagree with that. MOCs are motivated to get as many people in their district into the academy as possible, whether it is by winning their slate or coming in via the NWL. They will therefore pick the most qualified candidates as recommended by their experienced interview committee.
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I think what okboomer meant was that in some districts there just aren't that many people applying for nominations. Of course, the representative will make sure to give all the qualified/competitive candidates a nomination, but if they don't use all 10 on those candidates, then there is nothing stopping them from giving candidates who aren't as competitive a nomination anyway.
 
I have interviewed many (MANY) candidates over the years on MOC panels and I have yet to know how ANY of them did on their CFA.

At times, I've seen other interviewers ASK a candidate if they've taken it but without the actual results in front of us, I would not ever disqualify a candidate from a nom. Actually, since the interviews I've done vary across the calendar from Oct thru Dec, even a failure could be replaced by a retest so a turndown by the MOC panel over CFA would be premature.
 
There were 8 offers of appointment to USMA from my district this year (out of 10 nominations) and all 8 offers were accepted.
 
md2024 said:
I think what okboomer meant was that in some districts there just aren't that many people applying for nominations. Of course, the representative will make sure to give all the qualified/competitive candidates a nomination, but if they don't use all 10 on those candidates, then there is nothing stopping them from giving candidates who aren't as competitive a nomination anyway.
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Maybe...but the quot was "most MOCs". Some MOCs I would have gone with.
 
kinnem said:
I certainly disagree with that. MOCs are motivated to get as many people in their district into the academy as possible, whether it is by winning their slate or coming in via the NWL. They will therefore pick the most qualified candidates as recommended by their experienced interview committee.
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I'm not saying they won't pick the most qualified. I'm saying the most qualified may not be anywhere good enough and rather than not issue a nomination, the MOC will issue the nomination and let the SA decide. I've heard of instances where there weren't 10 candidates seeking a nomination in a district. I'm not saying that is common either. Point being that DoDMERB/CFA, at least in my estimation, can't be the only two drivers between nominated and 3Q with a nom.
 
maybe one further clarification. use this as the fact set: MOC has one slate available this year and 12 candidates seeking nomination. 10 nominations can be awarded. of the 12 candidates, it is clear that 2 knock it out of the park in every category, 4 are really strong in a couple of areas, and the remaining 6 for one reason or another clearly wouldn't be admissible. My belief is that in most cases, 10 nominations would still get issued by this MOC rather than limiting to the 6 that are clearly compelling. In this case, 4 nominations would be in the hands of candidates that won't make it in. My point being the MOCs are going to issue noms to the fullest extent as they have no downside to doing so.
 
and that this scenario would add greatly to the delta between those with nominations and those that end up 3Q with a nomination.
 
@OK-Boomer Fine. But I still think the use of the word most was unjustified. Anyway, with your clarification I agree with your point which seems to be the MOC will pick the 10 best they have available, but sometimes what's available is none too good.
 
Yes. That was my point. I clearly didn't do very well explaining the first time. Thanks for allowing me to clarify.
 
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