mseltz2004
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Can anyone give me some info on Non-Nuke SWO. Stuff like how their training differs from Nuclear SWO and the types of ships they command I can't find alot of Info.
Non-Nuke SWO
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SWO is the default setting, so to speak. Similar to nuke SWO, from a Service Academy, they report directly to ships, then attend more formal warfare schools later on as required. All work toward their professional qualification as a SWO during their initial tour. Once nuke SWOs earn that, they peel off for their nuke power school pipeline and subsequent career path.
In general, all commissioned ships are commanded by SWOs, unless the primary mission of the ship is an aviation platform.
Broadly, Navy ships tend to fall into the “cru-des,” cruiser-destroyer, types of ships and missions, or “amphib,” amphibious, closely teamed with the Marine Corps as an embarked force. Both have crucial roles to play. Amphibs will usually have an “L” in their hull designation, and are fondly referred to as “gators.”
https://www.navy.mil/navydata/ships/amphibs/amphib.asp
Using the search string, “Navy surface warfare officer career path,” entries similar to the one below pop up:
https://www.public.navy.mil/bupers-...fare/Documents/SWO Career Path Brief 2018.pdf
In any pre-comm program, SA, NROTC or OCS, there will be briefs on the different warfare communities, career paths and operational assignments and platforms.
In general, all commissioned ships are commanded by SWOs, unless the primary mission of the ship is an aviation platform.
Broadly, Navy ships tend to fall into the “cru-des,” cruiser-destroyer, types of ships and missions, or “amphib,” amphibious, closely teamed with the Marine Corps as an embarked force. Both have crucial roles to play. Amphibs will usually have an “L” in their hull designation, and are fondly referred to as “gators.”
https://www.navy.mil/navydata/ships/amphibs/amphib.asp
Using the search string, “Navy surface warfare officer career path,” entries similar to the one below pop up:
https://www.public.navy.mil/bupers-...fare/Documents/SWO Career Path Brief 2018.pdf
In any pre-comm program, SA, NROTC or OCS, there will be briefs on the different warfare communities, career paths and operational assignments and platforms.
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Just a few years ago when Big Navy owned AORs, AOEs, and other auxiliary ships, prospective carrier COs first had to command a deep draft ship. I was the shipboard medical program manager for Military Sealift Command in the middle 2000s when we took ownership of the Supply class oilers which were the last USS auxiliaries. MSC ships are commanded by civilians so I’m wondering on which platform carrier COs get their deep draft experience.
Bottom line... you are ship driver and everything that is needed to keep a ship running at sea and accomplish the mission. As a young Junior Officer (JO) you will focus on earning quals such as Officer Of the Day (OOD) and your SWO pin. You will stand watch at the bridge learning how to stand watch and lead the ship’s navigation, safety and decision making. OOD qual is a big one. It’s means the CO is comfortable with you leading that ship while the CO is asleep essentially.
You would also work within a division leading sailors. Engineering, CIC, DC, etc. Also lots of ‘extra duties’ like damage control, education officer, legal officer CMC and lots of other items that can go on for a page. As mentioned there are really two communities within SWO, amphibs and Cruiser/destroyers. They have their own personalities and missions. Amphibs will often focus on executing putting marines where they need to be. Cruisers and destroyers will do a lot of patrolling, deterrence, drug interdiction, anti-pirate ops and many others. Littoral Combat Ships are also growing and have their own unique mission I don’t really know much about. Bottom line, ship driving is really what the core of the Navy is. Sure being a pilot sounds sexier, but in the end the Navy is about ships and them being at sea.
You would also work within a division leading sailors. Engineering, CIC, DC, etc. Also lots of ‘extra duties’ like damage control, education officer, legal officer CMC and lots of other items that can go on for a page. As mentioned there are really two communities within SWO, amphibs and Cruiser/destroyers. They have their own personalities and missions. Amphibs will often focus on executing putting marines where they need to be. Cruisers and destroyers will do a lot of patrolling, deterrence, drug interdiction, anti-pirate ops and many others. Littoral Combat Ships are also growing and have their own unique mission I don’t really know much about. Bottom line, ship driving is really what the core of the Navy is. Sure being a pilot sounds sexier, but in the end the Navy is about ships and them being at sea.
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I’m a Navy Newbie...so pardon the ignorance here. Is what you describe learned/earned on a deployment? Or a training period? Does a new JO have to meet certain criteria before they can/will be deployed, or is it a “learn/earn as you go” kind of thing?
I understand the aviation and nuke school. Is it similar for a ship? And if so, about how long does that training take?
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Some aspects of it are covered in the NROTC academic classes, eg Naval Ships Systems, Navigation. I'm sure they pick up some stuff during summer cruises. However the real training is on the job when they hit the fleet. At least that's my understanding.
As mentioned it’s on the job. A ship underway usually gives a new Ensign more opportunities to knock out training. It really depends on their hunger to get after it, opportunities and the ship itself. A new Ensign that reports to a ship in dry dock isn’t getting a lot of time doing ship handling.
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It used to be that Carrier CO's would get their deep draft experience on EITHER a Service Force ship OR a a large amphib. Over time the amphib of choice became the LPD which was shared between aviation and surface - ships generally alternated an Aviation CO and then a SWO CO. Because of the loss of service force CO spots, the Navy is using some of the LSDs as Deep Draft spots for Aviators. I heard it is done similarly to the LPDs and Aviators and SWOs alternate. There are also the big deck LHDs/LHAs and as far as I know they alternate SWOs and Aviators as well.
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Slight correction here, it is not "you could ALSO work within a division" as it is almost always the case that a new SWO Trainee aka: "baby SWO" will work on quals AND have a division AND have collateral duties like MWR, Postal Officer, Voting Officer, etc.
I've been a Pointy Ship (cruiser/destroyer) and a Gator Freighter sailor and the operations tend to be different but for some/many of the junior SWO billets like engineering, it is not that different. The major difference is in the Combat Systems quals/watchstanding.
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Some things are better learned on deployment or during local operations and others can be done anywhere. SWO Trainees now go to a basic course for a couple of months to give them the information that they need. From the late 70's thru turn of the century, SWOs got about 6 months of training and then most went to billet specific training before getting to their ship but that was all wiped away to save money. After 20 yrs, the surface force is still climbing out of the crap that caused and I expect that schools will continue to be added over the next few years.
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It’s entirely possible you could join your ship anytime during the deployment cycle, including during the deployment itself in far-flung corners of the world. The entire point of your pre-comm training is to give you the basics of JO leadership responsibilities and some pro knowledge before you report aboard. Once aboard, in addition to your division duties and watch-standing, you’ll be working your way through a syllabus of various professional shipboard qualifications, both general and specific to your class of ship and the ship itself. You will observe, perform under observation,be evaluated, become qualified at that skill, watch station or professional area.
http://navyadvancement.tpub.com/14144/css/Officer-Of-The-Deck-In-Port-Cont-166.htm
Here’s a sample study guide for OOD Inport, Officer of the Deck while tied up at the pier. It’s one of the very first you’ll learn, and starts you on the path toward OOD Underway, Officer of the Deck, where you are responsible for safe navigation and “driving” the ship. Nothing like the Straits of Malacca during a driving rainstorm or Coronado Bay during the Wednesday sailboat races. You will have had numerous opportunities to observe and have the conn in low-risk situations (think learning to drive in the school parking lot on Sunday). Everyone starts somewhere, and the Navy has been doing this for a looooong time.
Never fear, everyone knows Ensigns know zip, doodly-squat and are essentially clueless (unless prior enlisted). When you report, you will be The George Ensign. The village joins in to raise you. Some history for you here:
https://www.history.navy.mil/resear.../title-list-alphabetically/b/bull-ensign.html
@NavyHoops OOD in Marine must mean Officer of the Day, similar to Officer of the Deck. I’d never realized that, always assumed OOD meant just one thing in USN and USCG. Makes sense, though.
http://navyadvancement.tpub.com/14144/css/Officer-Of-The-Deck-In-Port-Cont-166.htm
Here’s a sample study guide for OOD Inport, Officer of the Deck while tied up at the pier. It’s one of the very first you’ll learn, and starts you on the path toward OOD Underway, Officer of the Deck, where you are responsible for safe navigation and “driving” the ship. Nothing like the Straits of Malacca during a driving rainstorm or Coronado Bay during the Wednesday sailboat races. You will have had numerous opportunities to observe and have the conn in low-risk situations (think learning to drive in the school parking lot on Sunday). Everyone starts somewhere, and the Navy has been doing this for a looooong time.
Never fear, everyone knows Ensigns know zip, doodly-squat and are essentially clueless (unless prior enlisted). When you report, you will be The George Ensign. The village joins in to raise you. Some history for you here:
https://www.history.navy.mil/resear.../title-list-alphabetically/b/bull-ensign.html
@NavyHoops OOD in Marine must mean Officer of the Day, similar to Officer of the Deck. I’d never realized that, always assumed OOD meant just one thing in USN and USCG. Makes sense, though.
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This is not very accurate. The NROTC academic classes cover very general views of the systems but SWOs need very specific knowledge of THEIR ship and its specific systems. Summer cruises are a hit or miss thing. If you went on cruise on your exact ship or a VERY similar ship then yes but otherwise, it too is far too general. The usual model of midshipman cruise is to move the mids from department to department on about a 7 to 10 day cycle. 7 to 10 days in a department is barely enough time to learn where the spaces are and not enough time to learn much about the equipment and how to manage/run it at the level expected of a division officer.
As for navigation, I was a ship's Navigator and had to qualify all of our SWO candidates on the Navigation portion of the SWO qual. It did not matter what the commissioning source, the requirements for the SWO qual were far more Navigation then the candidates had when the reported aboard.
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I don't think, or certainly didn't mean to imply, anything different. Thanks for the additional detail. I think we're saying essentially the same thing. They pick up some knowledge fundamentals while midshipmen but the real training is on the job.
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I was on the fly and didn’t insert a primary source link for OOD Inport. If you search “Navy OOD Inport,” there are numerous entries for all the requirements and pro knowledge, from Navy and commercial sources, enough get the gist of how learning by both studying and doing it works. It has got to be brain and muscle memory, ready to be used as an emerging situation dictates. No time to Ask Alexa.
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There's also the bulk stock narcotics custodian on small boys. The IDC of course has the working stock in sick bay. This collateral duty also involves monthly inventory of the working stock. The IDC has the authority to dispense narcotics at his/her discretion but must have the CO co-sign a prescription after the fact. The prescription is kept with the narcotics log so when counted and narcotics are missing, the CO signed script provides accountability.
Sea story: In 1982 at Pearl Harbor we were directly hit with Hurricane Iwa. All ships were ordered to sea to ride out the storm. I was the junior corpsman on the USS Cochrane DDG 21. We were to follow the Goldsborough DDG 20 out the channel. She had just pulled in from an at sea period, maybe a deployment, and both the IDC and junior HM were ashore. As soon as the Goldie got about even with Hickam Field, the waves and wind tossed it like a toy boat. The crew were flying around as well and several were injured. One of the officers, the DCA maybe, had been an Air Force medic. They opened sick bay and an HT torched off the door to the narcotics safe. The officer was shooting morphine left and right, applying splints, and in general doing a lot of hero work. We had singled up all lines but got the order to put out storm lines instead and batten down. We did and rode out the storm without problem.
One sailor was killed but the JO saved some lives that day. I'm not sure what other collateral duties he had but he surely added badass to the list.
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