NROTC VS AFROTC

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mwil2848

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Dec 11, 2016
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First off, I want to thank everyone that takes the time to post and answer questions on this forum. As a high school student who just went through the process of applying to multiple ROTC branches this forum was a very helpful source of information.

I have been lucky enough to have been offered the NROTC and AFROTC scholarships recently, but I am torn between which route to take. Besides becoming an officer my goal is to commission into aviation. I have been doing a lot of research about flying opportunities in both branches but was hoping anyone who had any information or background might be able to share that with me. I also have a few questions....

From what I have read the Air Force has far more aviation slots each year but also a larger ROTC program and more people that are seeking aviation slots. Does anyone have any information on the ratio between the number of people that apply for aviation vs available aviation slots for both branches. (I know this probably changes frequently but any general information would be great)

I also read that many of the Air Force slots are given to the academy first leaving less for ROTC. Is this true?

Any info is appreciated!
 
Did you get a full ride from both? That might be a determining factor. Also, have you applied to schools that have one ROTC unit but not the other? Depending on where you get accepted at, the presence of, or lack of, a NROTC or AFROTC might be the decision maker for you.
 
I can't help too much from an ROTC point of view or even Air Force/Navy perspectives but as a member of a maritime service, I figured I'd offer a little bit of advice. You say you want to serve and be a pilot, excellent. That's a great goal. But say you don't receive a pilot slot, then what? What other interests do you have? Have you looked at specialties outside of aviation? If you go Navy and are denied a pilot slot, could you deal with 10 month deployments on a carrier as a SWO or 6 month deployments on a sub that may not surface very often?

I hope someone is able to provide you with the answers you're looking for but my advice is to consider each service carefully. There are plenty of AF and Navy AD officers on this forum. Ask questions about each service, search for threads that talk about Active Duty life. Looking at each individual service and discovering which one fits you regardless of a pilot slot might help. Good luck!
 
I agree you need to ask yourself the WHAT IF scenario. The AF is a completely different lifestyle than the Navy and that starts at the ROTC level. An AFROTC scholarship is not like the NROTC. It is commonly referred to as a 2 + 2 scholarship by posters here. If you are not selected for summer field training (SFT) than chances are great that you will be disenrolled from AFROTC. For the NROTC scholarship it is a true 4 yrs.
~ Something you really need to think about if you need that scholarship to pay for your education,
~ Currently the selection rate for sft is @93%, but only a few years ago it was 58% and the board does not give any extra edge for being a scholarship cadet. It is what the military calls masked...in other words they have no clue which cadet is on a scholarship and which cadet is not.

Now let's say you go up for the rated board, I don't know about NROTC, but for AFROTC the rated board is 4 different options. Pilot, CSO, RPA and ABM. You have to apply for all 4, Thus, you may get RPA and not Pilot. If you get RPA, but decline it you can never apply again for a rated board, yet at the same time since you are a POC you will owe 4 yrs to the AF flying a chair.
~ The selection rate is pretty good for pilot IF you maintain a strong cgpa, do well on the TBAS and have at least 20 hrs private pilot.

Now lets say you get a pilot slot. Getting it and winging are 2 totally different things. Again, I don't know the Navy rates, but for the AF it is not a walk in the park. DS's class started the T6 (1st phase) with 28 students, by the tracking phase (T1/38) they were down to 21. At that point they added back in 7 from students that washed back and his class was back to 28. At the day of graduation only 21 winged.
~~ Wash back occurs for multiple reasons... get injured and can't fly is one reason. In DSs class a student pulled a muscle during the PT test and was DNIF (duties not including flying) for 2 weeks, due to the pace of the program they were going to miss too many flights to make up and stay on track, thus they pushed him back to the next class.
~~ My DS was engaged at UPT and one his ROTC classmates was in his class. He was a groomsmen at his wedding. He washed out 3 weeks before graduation.
~~~ Out of the 13 or so that got UPT from his ROTC class. 2 washed out at IFS, now it is called IFT. Back than it had a 25% wash rate. 4 washed out of UPT. As you can see, like I said it is not 100% or even close to it from the minute you get that Pilot slot. His peers that washed out are now in Intel, Maintenance or Cyber. Do any of these career field appeal to you more than being on a boat? There are Intel positions at great bases like Eglin or Ramstein, but there are also Intel positions at Canon, Minot, Dyess too! (Google those bases, they are not ones that people will fight to get...Why not Minot? Freezin is the reason)

Okay so now let's say you do wing? What type of airframe do you want? Helo's are rare breeds in the AF. The AF is more fixed wing. Now let's say you want a fighter, well the reality is look(Google) how many 35s the AF is buying compared to the Navy...it is @3x as many. BUT, the reality is you have step back to the UPT aspect and tracking. For the AF only @25% of those that make it to the tracking phase will track T38. Using my DS's class only 7 went T38, and airframes that start with the letter A or B also come from the 38 side....i.e. B52, B1, AC130. It is not just pointy nose.
~ Research the Navy side not from the number side, but dig deeper and use the stats. Yes, the AF is buying almost 3 times more 35s, but is it because they have 3 times more pilots flying fighters compared to the Navy.

Now let's assume you wing and in both scenarios, AF or Navy you get the exact same airframe. Do you know what they call O1 pilot Smith? O1 Smith...aka Ensign or Lt., not Pilot Smith. Once operational in the AF you will not fly 5 days a week, maybe 2x a week. The other 3 days you are flying a desk in the weapons, scheduling, etc shop.
~ Can't answer for the Navy, so research that.

For the AF you will owe 9 yrs of your life upon winging. Most AFROTC grads will wing close to 2 yrs after commissioning because for the AF it is typically a 9 month wait to start UPT and UPT is 54 weeks.
~ Research the Navy.
~~ Our close friends DS commissioned May 2012 from USNA. He started UPT in July 2012. Winged July 2014. Our DS commissioned AFROTC May 2012 too. He started UPT April 2013. Winged April 2014. Navy's UPT program is known to be longer due to how they break down that tracking phase. Our friends DS was casual for about 6 months between tracking, whereas for the AF you do track night on Friday and Monday you start the next phase. There is no down time.

Ask yourself about the mission. My DH (F15E WSO) and DS (C130J pilot), both have the same answer about why the AF over the Navy?
~ They prefer that after an 8 hr mission the runway they took off from is exactly where they left it....ships tend to keep moving when at sea, where as AF bases tend to stay where you left it at!
~ Me, personally I always feel comfort with the idea that they are not landing on the size of a postage stamp on a football field. That was the analogy I was once told. Think about the size of a carrier compared to the size of an ocean. It is basically like taking a postage stamp and placing it on a football field.

JMPO, but you need to think a lot more before you choose either.
~ I bleed AF Blue, so I am pro AF.

However, as a parent from a short term perspective I would probably opt NROTC.
~NROTC scholarship can be used for tuition or Room and Board. AFROTC is tuition only. Most ROTC scholarship recipients will also get merit from their colleges. DS was AFROTC and his merit paid for R&B, thus it was a free ride.
~AFROTC has that hiccup of 2 +2.
~~ No SFT = high chance of loss of scholarship
~ Both impo have the same issue...STEM...get to the school, hate STEM and want to major in business, well than the fact is chances are they are going to deny your major change and keep the scholarship.

Long term as a parent of an ADAF and a spouse of a wife that served 21 yrs, I would say AF.
~ AF impo is more family oriented. They believe that retention rate is higher with an old adage...happy wife, happy life.
~~ Deployments occur at the same rate as any other branch. You can expect to be deployed 4-6 months every 18 months. However, for the AF they do have that option to break it down.
~~~ Fencers DS's wife was due in May. The squadron was being deployed for 4 months starting in Jan. or so. Instead of sending him for the entire 4 months, they sent him for 2 so he could be back 6 weeks prior to the birth of their 1st child. Navy not so much. In the Navy the carrier goes out and they are not going to replace him until the tour is over.
~ My DS1 found out less than a week after he deployed for 6 months, he was going to be a 1st time Dad. Came back and when she hit 34 weeks, there were no 2-3 day TDY/TADs (Google). He still flew, but it was just in area.

You are 17, maybe 18. If you want Helo's than I would go Navy. If you want pointy nose, than I would go AF. If the idea of being a pilot landlocked creates shivers up your spine than I would go Navy. If forced to go sub over intel at Minot sends shivers up your spine, go AF.

Point is you can accept both and use the next 9 months to research which way to go.
~ The scholarship is not activated until you show up on campus and pass the PFA.

I thank you for your willingness to defend this great nation so my DD and DS2 can live their dreams/careers without having to defend this great nation. My very best wishes and thoughts go out to you.
 
unkown1961 said:
Did you get a full ride from both?
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This is meant in no offense, but I get irked by this type of comment.

I get the expense of college. Trust me I do. For 8 yrs, I had 2 kids at any given time in college. Bullet and I are finally breathing financially again since was are down to only 1! However, I will say as a spouse that followed him around the world for 21 yrs full ride would not be on the radar.
~ As you can tell my DS was AFROTC, but no ROTC scholarship is full ride, be it A/AF/NROTC. It is tuition or R &B for A/NROTC and tuition only for AFROTC
~~ My DS was full ride (AFROTC and merit)

The fact is the Navy or AF WILL own you for at least 4 yrs.

College is 30 weeks a yr. If you are a STEM major carrying 21 credits, 22 with ROTC, it still is not what you owe either way as an AF or NROTC grad.

Both grads owe 24/7/365 days a yr. for 4 yrs., and worse yet they decide what career field, and where you will live, unlike choosing college.
~ That is what you sign on for when you sign those POC papers.

Now, I will say this:
Is that college worth 4 yrs 24/7/365, expect to be deployed for Thanksgiving, Xmas, siblings wedding at the very worst station ever and not getting a pilot slot?
~ IE you go AFROTC scholarship and with merit it is a FREE ride, but you get Intel. Yet, if you took the NROTC scholarship with no merit to VT and had to pay, but got pilot, would you still take AF?

unkown1961 said:
Also, have you applied to schools that have one ROTC unit but not the other? Depending on where you get accepted at, the presence of, or lack of, a NROTC or AFROTC might be the decision maker for you.
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I am assuming you mean host or xtown.
~ If so, I agree 1000 %.
~~ Xtown means you will be waking up early for PT. PT is 6-6:30 a.m. Not fun if you have to leave at 5:30 and can be hard if you have to take that class only offered at 8:30 with a 45 minute drive back
~~~ Not optimal for bonding purposes if you are not at the host school. Many AFROTC dets. do GMC nights, usually Weds. after 6 p.m. they hang out in the lounge, play Xbox/foosball/crud and eat pizza until 9 at night. Just cadets in your yr group. No car and 45 mins away, than you lose that bonding aspect unless that unit is tight.

This is a marathon, not a sprint. The real marathon is not college it is Active Duty. You get to choose what college, aka where you live and what major for the next 4 yrs. The military will CHOOSE for you what career field and where you will live for the 4 yrs after you graduate!

Whichever branch you go, live by one statement.
SERVICE BEFORE SELF

That is the reality of your future.
 
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Pima said:
This is meant in no offense, but I get irked by this type of comment.

I am assuming you mean host or xtown.
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Good comments and no offense taken. In our situation, as a spouse of a 24 year AF officer (half of our kids' lives spent overseas, and happy for that), dollars is/was on the radar. And there are families out there who can't take on the added cost of college above a Type 2 or 7 scholarship due to socio-economic status (which can be a reason they are shooting for ROTC as a way to pay for college, along with aspirations of flying). The difference can potentially be up to $30k or $40k in additional costs. So I think money can matter.

Additionally, applicants should be aware that merit aid is sometimes taken away at schools if there is an ROTC scholarship awarded. This happened to my son (who is AFROTC currently) at two colleges.

The choice of college factors in as well. If an applicant is fortunate enough to be selected to a selective school (an Ivy, Stanford, MIT, out of state resident to UM, Cal, UCLA, etc.), and attending the selective school is a strong desire, then again dollars can factor into the decision. And given today's job market, a degree from a selective school will help greatly in the job market after service.

In sum dollars can matter for some candidates and their family - can you afford the college costs above a partial tuition, do you want to take on college loans, etc. That is why I mentioned it as a factor. I don't mean to imply it is the factor.

One other note, NROTC scholarships are for tuition plus fees, books, and stipends - NROTC does not cover room and board (though some schools will give money toward this for ROTC cadets with scholarships - my son being an example). http://www.nrotc.navy.mil/scholarship_benefits.html

As respects the second statement above, I was referring to whether the candidate's top choice of school had both services' ROTC units, since all schools do not have all ROTC services. For example, Harvey Mudd and Washington U in St. Louis have AF but not Navy. However, crosstown is also a consideration if the commute is long - some crosstown units are reachable via public transportation. If you are looking at a crosstown scenario, talk to the host school's unit and find out their schedule. Some units take into account the crosstown commute time and schedule everything on one day of the week.

There are a lot of factors, even beyond that mentioned above. Do some research, some self reflection, and talk to your parents. Good luck, but just remember that you're in a great setup for college having two scholarships available to you! Congrats!
 
Pima. Dude. Brevity.

For the OP, NROTC generally has good availability for pilot spots. In a departure from the Air Force, the Navy doesn't care that much about flight hours. ASTB scores matter more.
The big "danger" is getting Nuke drafted, which is not super common.
 
Pima's posting style is her own, with many a valuable nugget embedded. As I say about many things with the perspective a few more years in the saddle brings, not wrong, just different.

That's it - diversity in posting styles! [emoji16]
 
Hurricane12 said:
Pima. Dude. Brevity.

For the OP, NROTC generally has good availability for pilot spots. In a departure from the Air Force, the Navy doesn't care that much about flight hours. ASTB scores matter more.
The big "danger" is getting Nuke drafted, which is not super common.
Click to expand...

Brevity is great, but I was giving answers for the what if, you just said what? Good availability for pilot spots?
~ You are a USNA grad. How many out of your UPT class winged?
~ How many were ROTC?
~ How many got fighters, helo's heavies?
Can't say I did not give them a glimpse into the AF now can you? If you agree that I did in my long response and you didn't in your attack on me, who exactly helped the poster? You or me?

This kid is 17 or 18, They may believe that being a pilot is all they do 5 days a week. They may not want helo's. My response maybe long, but guess what DUDE, they now have a glimpse. Your response on the other hand was so brief and an attack on me that you gave them no insight into the Navy as a flier.
~ How many yrs do you owe for winging?
~ How many winged statistically?
~ How many got fighters vs heavies?

I am not trying to offend you, and I am indebted to you for your service, but ROTC is not SA, and you not answering the questions I posed did exactly what for the OP. I spent time and discussed their future as an AFROTC cadet with stats, and as an O1/2 you said ASTB scores matter.
~ What is a good ASTB and how much does that score work into the OML for NROTC to get a pilot slot?
~ How many years do they owe back?

ETC, etc. etc. Guessing by our moniker you are the class of 12, an O3 now. Help them and take the long post. Raimius is someone I always refer to for his link....signature.

I get the brevity comment...Bullet points for the military. However, guess what? This is not a military forum like baseops.net, where everyone posts in bullets and not flowery terms. It is a site where posters delve deeper and in a way spoon feed.

Kill me, flame me. The OP is 17 and when you have a child looking down the barrel of 16 yrs (AFROTC Pilot) than that is the day you can take me out and say be concise and short. Until that time, I think I hold the cards over you, even though you are AD, I was an ADAF spouse (3rd class) and Mom AFROTC, now ADAF

God bless and may you have a very happy holiday season. I am out! TOO LONG?
 
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I'm a little biased here as you can tell by my profile pic so I'd say AFROTC because pilot is completely doable if your set on it from the start. Also, you can get CSO (backseat), RPA (drones), or ABM (AWACS) if you'd like. You rank them on preference and will go to the next lowest category if you don't qualify for one. If you have any other questions feel free to ask!
 
It's a discussion board, and we all have different experiences and contexts - no one has anything over anybody (reminds me of spouses pulling rank). And Hurricane humorously pointed out would could be considered an abundant use of words to get across valid points. Why say in 20 words what you can say in 10.

Still trying to figure out what an Air Force spouse 3rd class is. I never heard that in my spousal times. But maybe male spouses weren't privy to all the secrets of the spouse world. :)
 
I am in the exact same situation mwil2848, and am also waiting to hear back from USCGA EA decisions. Any information on the likelihood of piloting rescue/medivac missions for any of the three branches?
 
hopefulbear said:
I am in the exact same situation mwil2848, and am also waiting to hear back from USCGA EA decisions. Any information on the likelihood of piloting rescue/medivac missions for any of the three branches?
Click to expand...

If ALL you want to do is fly helicopters, one of the best opportunities is the Army Warrant Officer Flight Program. (WOFT)
http://www.usarec.army.mil/hq/warrant/prerequ/woft.shtml

As an Army aviation regular line officer, you would fly less as you get promoted beyond O-3, wheras a WO pilot flies on and on....
 
Pima said:
Brevity is great, but I was giving answers for the what if, you just said what? Good availability for pilot spots?
~ You are a USNA grad. How many out of your UPT class winged?
~ How many were ROTC?
~ How many got fighters, helo's heavies?
Can't say I did not give them a glimpse into the AF now can you? If you agree that I did in my long response and you didn't in your attack on me, who exactly helped the poster? You or me?

This kid is 17 or 18, They may believe that being a pilot is all they do 5 days a week. They may not want helo's. My response maybe long, but guess what DUDE, they now have a glimpse. Your response on the other hand was so brief and an attack on me that you gave them no insight into the Navy as a flier.
~ How many yrs do you owe for winging?
~ How many winged statistically?
~ How many got fighters vs heavies?

I am not trying to offend you, and I am indebted to you for your service, but ROTC is not SA, and you not answering the questions I posed did exactly what for the OP. I spent time and discussed their future as an AFROTC cadet with stats, and as an O1/2 you said ASTB scores matter.
~ What is a good ASTB and how much does that score work into the OML for NROTC to get a pilot slot?
~ How many years do they owe back?

ETC, etc. etc. Guessing by our moniker you are the class of 12, an O3 now. Help them and take the long post. Raimius is someone I always refer to for his link....signature.

I get the brevity comment...Bullet points for the military. However, guess what? This is not a military forum like baseops.net, where everyone posts in bullets and not flowery terms. It is a site where posters delve deeper and in a way spoon feed.

Kill me, flame me. The OP is 17 and when you have a child looking down the barrel of 16 yrs (AFROTC Pilot) than that is the day you can take me out and say be concise and short. Until that time, I think I hold the cards over you, even though you are AD, I was an ADAF spouse (3rd class) and Mom AFROTC, now ADAF

God bless and may you have a very happy holiday season. I am out! TOO LONG?
Click to expand...

What is (3rd class) ???
 
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