Opportunities and Benefits Exclusive to Naval Academy Midshipmen

smokey%

smokey%

USNA '28 ⚓ | USMA & USAFA ‘28 Appointee
Joined
Mar 30, 2023
Messages
596
I know that one should not choose between the academy and NROTC because of the benefits but that one should choose based on their goals and priorities. That being said, I am curious as to what opportunities and benefits are open only to Academy Midshipmen and not NROTC midshipmen. My mom told me that once you hit 20 years of service in the Navy/Marine Corps, your 4 years at the academy counts as service years and instead of being paid as someone who served for 20 years, you get paid as someone who served for 24 years. Is this true? My mom does not come from a military background and said she heard this in a Youtube video and I haven't gotten a straight answer from the Google machine.
 
smokey% said:
I know that one should not choose between the academy and NROTC because of the benefits but that one should choose based on their goals and priorities. That being said, I am curious as to what opportunities and benefits are open only to Academy Midshipmen and not NROTC midshipmen. My mom told me that once you hit 20 years of service in the Navy/Marine Corps, your 4 years at the academy counts as service years and instead of being paid as someone who served for 20 years, you get paid as someone who served for 24 years. Is this true? My mom does not come from a military background and said she heard this in a Youtube video and I haven't gotten a straight answer from the Google machine.
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Cutting to the chase, the 4 years at USNA do NOT count toward a military retirement. Those years, and any other military active duty years, CAN count toward a federal civilian retirement. This is available to anyone who has served on AD. The 4 years in NROTC do not count for either federal or civilian retirement, generally speaking, though there might be those cases that are different because of enlisted status r other special cases.

Once commissioned out of USNA and NROTC, or OCS or other commissioning sources, everyone is considered the same for pay purposes, and it is performance, performance, performance that is the key to advancement to the next rank.

Now, if you have prior enlisted service, that time can usually count for a higher time-in-service pay tier coming out of a commissioning source.
 
Capt MJ said:
Cutting to the chase, the 4 years at USNA do NOT count toward a military retirement. Those years, and any other military active duty years, CAN count toward a federal civilian retirement. This is available to anyone who has served on AD. The 4 years in NROTC do not count for either federal or civilian retirement, generally speaking, though there might be those cases that are different because of enlisted status r other special cases.

Once commissioned out of USNA and NROTC, or OCS or other commissioning sources, everyone is considered the same for pay purposes, and it is performance, performance, performance that is the key to advancement to the next rank.

Now, if you have prior enlisted service, that time can usually count for a higher time-in-service pay tier coming out of a commissioning source.
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Interesting.

What if my son served 20 years, and worked for the federal government outside of military for 10 years?
 
A1Janitor said:
Interesting.

What if my son served 20 years, and worked for the federal government outside of military for 10 years?
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He would have to see the right person in the federal civilian personnel HR office to be walked through it. There is a point where I think it does not make sense to do it. Some earn a military retirement, then do another X years for federal service and earn another federal pension. I retired as a Navy captain at age 46 with 26 years in, could easily have done another 20-25 federal. There is some “buyback” involved. A mystery to me.

As you can see in the following link, understanding OPMese takes some professional help.

www.opm.gov

Creditable Service

Welcome to opm.gov
www.opm.gov www.opm.gov

We have had a USNA sponsor family mid alumni do 8 years as a SWO (got 100% of her Post-9/11 GI Bill) and has worked since for an ABC agency. Ditto a Marine Corps sponsor son for another sister agency. They both did the “thing” with retirement and use of military AD years.

Apologies to OP about straying from original query.
 
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Capt MJ said:
Cutting to the chase, the 4 years at USNA do NOT count toward a military retirement. Those years, and any other military active duty years, CAN count toward a federal civilian retirement. This is available to anyone who has served on AD. The 4 years in NROTC do not count for either federal or civilian retirement, generally speaking, though there might be those cases that are different because of enlisted status r other special cases.

Once commissioned out of USNA and NROTC, or OCS or other commissioning sources, everyone is considered the same for pay purposes, and it is performance, performance, performance that is the key to advancement to the next rank.

Now, if you have prior enlisted service, that time can usually count for a higher time-in-service pay tier coming out of a commissioning source.
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So if I'm tracking correctly, a USNA grad's time in the military AND at USNA will count towards a federal civilian retirement (a job at an ABC agency for example), but an NROTC graduate's time in the military DOES NOT count towards a federal civilian retirement?
 
smokey% said:
So if I'm tracking correctly, a USNA grad's time in the military AND at USNA will count towards a federal civilian retirement (a job at an ABC agency for example), but an NROTC graduate's time in the military DOES NOT count towards a federal civilian retirement?
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Correct. Biggest difference is USNA is active duty from Day 1. NROTC midshipmen are considered Reserve.

Another benny - USNA mids who qualify for LASIK or PRK get it for free as part of AD military healthcare, often making them eligible for naval aviation. I believe NROTC midshipmen have to pay for it themselves.
 
Advantages of USNA:

- costs - you don’t have to put out any money tuition, room and board.
- you never have to ponder what to wear.
- all classes are taught by full professors, no TAs
- the network while there and after is second to none
- classes are small. Some upper level courses will have less than 10 people
- if you enter federal service after your military time, the time counts for retirement
- the relationships - I think every grad will tell you this is one of the top items
- access to so many officers and enlisted to learn from
- access to grads, leaders in industry and other places to learn from in lectures, conferences, company events, even tailgates!
- more training opportunities in the summer and just in general with ECAs. Even things like having access to YPs for training is huge.
- if you have interest in the Navy and Marine Corps you don’t have to choose which path until 1/C year
- every where you go in the fleet you will know someone

The other side
- if a 24x7 structured military environment is not your thing- it would be a struggle
- if you decide ROTC is not to your thing you can remain at your school, unlike USNA. But you have to be able to afford it.
- room and board is expensive. Many incur debt for this.
- depending on your school, size of classes can be very large and lower level courses often by TAs
- more majors at most colleges
- more freedom and more of a regular college experience in ROTC
- Greek life that interests you
 
Not to muddy the waters, but there have been a few threads lately about federal civilian retirements (which is comical coming from high school seniors - I don't think I trusted anyone over 30 when I was 18, let alone ponder a retirement pension). This will not answer all questions, but:

1. You cannot collect a retired ACTIVE DUTY military pension and a civilian FERS pension at the same time if you "buy back" your military time.
2. You can collect a retired RESERVE PENSION and a civilian FERS pension at the same time.
3. It doesn't matter if you were active duty or reserve from the academy or NROTC for your pensions. The only difference between the two is your four years in college. If you went to the USNA, those four years count. But again, see #1 above.
4. After leaving active duty and obtaining a civilian FERS government job, you may make a military deposit (i.e. "buy back") your military time, which will be added to your current civilian time for retirement purposes.
 
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smokey% said:
I am curious as to what opportunities and benefits are open only to Academy Midshipmen and not NROTC midshipmen.
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All expenses at USNA, to include food and room/board are a big benefit. Of course you're working your butt off, but it is a benefit.

Coming from a couple years enlisted to be discharged into NROTC, the pay cut and suddenly having rent/food to handle (no parental support for me) meant I had multiple part time jobs in college to help make ends meet, to the level that I desired. This changed a little once I got a few supplemental scholarships and financial aid, but it is a worthwhile consideration. 18 credits + NROTC responsibilities + 10-20 hours/week working was a lot, though it was still a break from enlisted nuclear power.

Just something to consider.
 
smokey% said:
I know that one should not choose between the academy and NROTC because of the benefits but that one should choose based on their goals and priorities. That being said, I am curious as to what opportunities and benefits are open only to Academy Midshipmen and not NROTC midshipmen. My mom told me that once you hit 20 years of service in the Navy/Marine Corps, your 4 years at the academy counts as service years and instead of being paid as someone who served for 20 years, you get paid as someone who served for 24 years. Is this true? My mom does not come from a military background and said she heard this in a Youtube video and I haven't gotten a straight answer from the Google machine.
Click to expand...
Something that isn't an official benefit or written anywhere are just the incredible opportunities that will just pop up in your inbox. I sign up for everything I can -- Quite literally everything eligible. We get so many incredible opportunities, speakers, guest lecturers, Q&A's, all about topics that most universities don't get. I got to talk one-on-one with an admiral in the Australian Navy about AUKUS for like half an hour. That was so cool.

A notable example was I got an email asking if I wanted to tour a Los Angeles class submarine. Sure! I signed up. Another one asking if I wanted to fly in a marine helicopter, and if so a MV-22 or a CH-53E? Count me in.

In my experience before USNA I would have never thought that possible. The sad thing is, you can ignore all of these inbox opportunities and get through USNA without doing a single one. If you are your own best advocate at USNA, however, you can do some pretty darn incredible things.
 
moho said:
Something that isn't an official benefit or written anywhere are just the incredible opportunities that will just pop up in your inbox. I sign up for everything I can -- Quite literally everything eligible. We get so many incredible opportunities, speakers, guest lecturers, Q&A's, all about topics that most universities don't get. I got to talk one-on-one with an admiral in the Australian Navy about AUKUS for like half an hour. That was so cool.

A notable example was I got an email asking if I wanted to tour a Los Angeles class submarine. Sure! I signed up. Another one asking if I wanted to fly in a marine helicopter, and if so a MV-22 or a CH-53E? Count me in.

In my experience before USNA I would have never thought that possible. The sad thing is, you can ignore all of these inbox opportunities and get through USNA without doing a single one. If you are your own best advocate at USNA, however, you can do some pretty darn incredible things.
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Moho, way to take advantage of what is offered. Keep at it. USNA and any college experience is what you make of it. I think sometimes USNA Mids do not take enough advantage of what is offered for whatever reason (tired, take it for granted, it’s not cool). Go all in! Learn everything you can. Never know what you will learn and who you will meet.
 
NavyHoops said:
Advantages of USNA:

- costs - you don’t have to put out any money tuition, room and board.
- you never have to ponder what to wear.
- all classes are taught by full professors, no TAs
- the network while there and after is second to none
- classes are small. Some upper level courses will have less than 10 people
- if you enter federal service after your military time, the time counts for retirement
- the relationships - I think every grad will tell you this is one of the top items
- access to so many officers and enlisted to learn from
- access to grads, leaders in industry and other places to learn from in lectures, conferences, company events, even tailgates!
- more training opportunities in the summer and just in general with ECAs. Even things like having access to YPs for training is huge.
- if you have interest in the Navy and Marine Corps you don’t have to choose which path until 1/C year
- every where you go in the fleet you will know someone

The other side
- if a 24x7 structured military environment is not your thing- it would be a struggle
- if you decide ROTC is not to your thing you can remain at your school, unlike USNA. But you have to be able to afford it.
- room and board is expensive. Many incur debt for this.
- depending on your school, size of classes can be very large and lower level courses often by TAs
- more majors at most colleges
- more freedom and more of a regular college experience in ROTC
- Greek life that interests you
Click to expand...

Excellent post. One small disagreement would be “all classes are taught by full professors, no TAs.”

That may be advantageous. But it also could be a curse.

I come from a large family of educators. Sometimes the TAs have a sufficient knowledge of the subject matter and are excellent teachers. And full professors could be researchers, poor communicators, or bad teachers.
 
I believe that professors at Navy have one job - teaching. There are no graduate paths at the Academies. Through them, certainly, but not at them.

Professors at civilian research universities can have conflicting responsibilities. Publish or Perish came to be a saying for a reason.
 
FutureAcademyDad? said:
I believe that professors at Navy have one job - teaching. There are no graduate paths at the Academies. Through them, certainly, but not at them.

Professors at civilian research universities can have conflicting responsibilities. Publish or Perish came to be a saying for a reason.
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There are excellent TAs in civilian colleges that do a good job teaching the material. Certainly there are some professors at USNA that aren’t as good for instance.

My twin brother is an endowed chair. His h factor is huge - a top researcher at his university and in his discipline in the world. He also is a top rated teacher.

I have had excellent TAs teach me. I have also had professors trying to teach math that couldn’t speak English.
 
Nope. Just that there are no TA's. Or professors that can't speak English.

Whether or not a professor is "bad" is largely subjective and often based on a student's perspective.

I am not saying that all Navy professors are the best of the best of the best, Sir! Just that their primary job is teaching and that they are much more accessible for extra instruction than at a civilian research university.
 
NavyHoops said:
Moho, way to take advantage of what is offered. Keep at it. USNA and any college experience is what you make of it. I think sometimes USNA Mids do not take enough advantage of what is offered for whatever reason (tired, take it for granted, it’s not cool). Go all in! Learn everything you can. Never know what you will learn and who you will meet.
Click to expand...

Lots of us, very understandably, get lost in the daily grind. Those who have never been to college don't know what it's like to go to a normal university, and maybe don't realize how incredible some of the exposure we're offered really is. One of the ways I keep myself from getting cynical is by exposing myself to every unique opportunity we get. It is some of the best advice (of the little experience I have so far as a plebe) I can offer any aspiring or current mid.
 
Government internships and summer training.

Just being active duty and holding an SCI clearance as a MIDN opened opportunities that weren't available to NROTC MIDN.

Exposure to the Navy and USMC. An average NROTC unit has something like two SWOs, an aviator, a nuke, and a Marine? Tiny representation of officer communities compared to USNA. I think the only officer designator that wasn't represented at USNA when I was there was HR, and that might've just been because I didn't hang around admin/staff.

Acclimation. I've never met a USNA grad that "failed to adapt" to the fleet. I have met NROTC grads that did. You want that breakdown event to happen during the program, not in the first months as a new DIVO. Maybe the standardization and NSI have improved that, but I got the feeling that some NROTC units didn't incorporate as much military training and indoctrination as they should have.
 
Son had NROTC as plan B. Since being at USNA he has been to Iceland, been on two nuclear class subs, cliff dived off the southern most point of the US, been in the back seat of a Top Gun piloted aircraft, knocked down doors with Marines at Pendleton, soloed this past summer in a single engine prop, sailed from DTA to Rhode Island and back. He has networked every year and has accepted the mentorships offered to him. Some from retired four stars. The access to career deep fleet experience is insane.
 
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