prep school offer - what to advise DD?

[usafa202?_dad]

I've been lurking here for years. Son previously graduated from USAFA.

DD received offer to the USAFA prep school. She's disappointed and too a large extent doesn't really know how to evaluate the prep school versus other universities. I'm posting here for advice from those of you who are intimately knowledgeable with the Academy's workings, the programme, and how the prep school factors into these matters.

She had low SAT scores. However, her grades are all A's for last two years of high school and mostly A's and a few B's for prior years. Stanford would give credit for her junior and senior courses, including calculus and physics. Her education has been in three countries. As to her low SAT, they literally were the first and only multiple choice exams she ever had in her education. However, her A's do include her taking national exams which are graded independently of her teachers and place her in the top 10%. However, those exams are less focused on speed and more focused on depth of knowledge and accuracy. Think, a small number of questions for which they expect in depth calculations and analysis as opposed to the SATs large number of questions where speed is probably more important.

She applied to five universities and was accepted to four. The only rejection was from an aspirational STEM university, think top 3 university. The universities to which she has been accepted include one in the top 10 and another in the top 15. In addition to those she has the prep offer from USAFA and is still waiting to hear from USNA.

Career wise she is interested in Aerospace/Aeronautical Engineering. She is most interested in military career as being a path to working in a aerospace related field (missiles/satellites/aeronautical engineering) and a possible gateway to NASA. When I say NASA it is an interest in space related engineering. She's not necessarily interested in being an astronaut. So for USAF she is not necessarily thinking pilot. However, she does like the types of activities, discipline, structure and organization which are part of cadet/officer life. She also hopes to play on a sports team at university.

The last item in background, is that she already has an offer for a summer internship at NASA after she completes her first year of university, so summer 2021.

Now as to how she seems to be evaluating this.

(1) She is viewing the prep school as academically repeating high school. We know the prep school seems to present itself as at least junior college level. However, it's not necessarily advancing her academic education. She's concerned about loosing a year academically.

(2) Concerned that if she subsequently receives an appointment that cadets from the prep school may be viewed as "inferior" to other cadets or considered as second class citizens in some manner.

(3) Probably causes her to lose the NASA summer internship. There would be BCT summer of 2021. If she had been accepted to USAFA, she knows it would be up to USAFA, but her ALO gave her the impression she might be allowed to pursue a NASA summer internship if she gave up her vacation.

(4) The prep school doesn't have a women's team in her sport. She would lose a year of playing time which may adversely impact her ability to gain a place if she is subsequently accepted to USAFA. She's pretty confident she would earn a spot at her other universities.

(5) I've suggested to her that she could defer entry by a year to one of the universities to which she has been accepted, and basically view prep as a year of physical/military training. She realizes that but is generally interested in moving forward in life and sees prep as being a delay.

Financially, she would be better off at a service academy both for spending money and debt. Although, her other universities are not likely to result in total debt in excess of $30-40k. So that is not that much of a factor.

I think her issues are the academic content of the prep school courses, whether she feels she would be challenged academically, probability of being subsequently accepted to USAFA, and the desire to be moving forward with her life. She only received one nomination (Representative), are they likely to give a repeat nomination?

Is this something her USAFA counselor or ALO would be willing to discuss with her? Are they likely to give her any feedback as to why they offered a prep school spot? Was it really the low SAT or some other issues? Are the likely to provide insights as to what would have to be different to gain an appointment next year? Should she approach her Representative's office to see how they view the prep school?

 

[oatsguy]

If you aren't familiar with prep it's easy to understand the hesitation. Read other posts on prep and you'll see why it's called the "Golden Ticket". USAFA is telling your daughter that they want her and are willing to give her a spot next year (there are conditions to meet). Think about it, only about 7% of applicants get in. Your daughter didn't make the 7% but they think she will next year. Prep students going into academies are seen as leaders and are more mature and prepared than directs so this is the opposite of seen as inferior. Right now my youngest son has a prep appointment offer from last week and is hoping to get another this week. We are beyond excited and believe prep then SA is better than straight SA for DS. He is very excited and see this as a route not only to get in but to get better prepared physically (he's an athlete too), mentally to military life and also he'll be better trained on formation and expectation.

Lastly, if your primary goal is SA to just save money then this may not be the right route. One way to look at this though is that you aren't obligated if you prep. If she does it and think it's not for her then no harm no foul. But if she likes she'll know she's pretty much in the next year assuming she meets the GPA criteria.

 

[rkv]

I know many view as "Golden Ticket". But I believe I've seen 20-25% don't move on to USAFA. Of course that might be self selection. After all cadets also leave USAFA.

 

[oatsguy]

Thanks. Is there an explicitly stated GPA criteria? Or do you just mean that your grades at prep show you're capable of the work?

I don't remember but it's in the 2.5 range. Basically don't do anything stupid and get decent grades and you're in! It really is a Golden Ticket.

 

[AFBoyMom]

Does she want to serve? Is it her goal to attend USAFA?

An offer to the prep school is an honor and a privilege. I don’t think anyone can advise you, or your daughter, what to do. She has to decide if she really wants to be a cadet at the USAFA as she is most likely going to be Class of 2025 should she accept her prep appointment... so long as she shows up and meets the preps requirements... hence why these appointments are known as the ‘Golden Ticket’.

good luck

 

[USAFA_2024_Candidate_Fam]

I've been lurking here for years. Son previously graduated from USAFA.

DD received offer to the USAFA prep school. She's disappointed and too a large extent doesn't really know how to evaluate the prep school versus other universities. I'm posting here for advice from those of you who are intimately knowledgeable with the Academy's workings, the programme, and how the prep school factors into these matters.

She had low SAT scores. However, her grades are all A's for last two years of high school and mostly A's and a few B's for prior years. Stanford would give credit for her junior and senior courses, including calculus and physics. Her education has been in three countries. As to her low SAT, they literally were the first and only multiple choice exams she ever had in her education. However, her A's do include her taking national exams which are graded independently of her teachers and place her in the top 10%. However, those exams are less focused on speed and more focused on depth of knowledge and accuracy. Think, a small number of questions for which they expect in depth calculations and analysis as opposed to the SATs large number of questions where speed is probably more important.

She applied to five universities and was accepted to four. The only rejection was from an aspirational STEM university, think top 3 university. The universities to which she has been accepted include one in the top 10 and another in the top 15. In addition to those she has the prep offer from USAFA and is still waiting to hear from USNA.

Career wise she is interested in Aerospace/Aeronautical Engineering. She is most interested in military career as being a path to working in a aerospace related field (missiles/satellites/aeronautical engineering) and a possible gateway to NASA. When I say NASA it is an interest in space related engineering. She's not necessarily interested in being an astronaut. So for USAF she is not necessarily thinking pilot. However, she does like the types of activities, discipline, structure and organization which are part of cadet/officer life. She also hopes to play on a sports team at university.

The last item in background, is that she already has an offer for a summer internship at NASA after she completes her first year of university, so summer 2021.

Now as to how she seems to be evaluating this.

(1) She is viewing the prep school as academically repeating high school. We know the prep school seems to present itself as at least junior college level. However, it's not necessarily advancing her academic education. She's concerned about loosing a year academically.

(2) Concerned that if she subsequently receives an appointment that cadets from the prep school may be viewed as "inferior" to other cadets or considered as second class citizens in some manner.

(3) Probably causes her to lose the NASA summer internship. There would be BCT summer of 2021. If she had been accepted to USAFA, she knows it would be up to USAFA, but her ALO gave her the impression she might be allowed to pursue a NASA summer internship if she gave up her vacation.

(4) The prep school doesn't have a women's team in her sport. She would lose a year of playing time which may adversely impact her ability to gain a place if she is subsequently accepted to USAFA. She's pretty confident she would earn a spot at her other universities.

(5) I've suggested to her that she could defer entry by a year to one of the universities to which she has been accepted, and basically view prep as a year of physical/military training. She realizes that but is generally interested in moving forward in life and sees prep as being a delay.

Financially, she would be better off at a service academy both for spending money and debt. Although, her other universities are not likely to result in total debt in excess of $30-40k. So that is not that much of a factor.

I think her issues are the academic content of the prep school courses, whether she feels she would be challenged academically, probability of being subsequently accepted to USAFA, and the desire to be moving forward with her life. She only received one nomination (Representative), are they likely to give a repeat nomination?

Is this something her USAFA counselor or ALO would be willing to discuss with her? Are they likely to give her any feedback as to why they offered a prep school spot? Was it really the low SAT or some other issues? Are the likely to provide insights as to what would have to be different to gain an appointment next year? Should she approach her Representative's office to see how they view the prep school?

You are likely to hear several varying perspectives and my reply may trigger some of those who seem to be perpetually linked to this forum but here goes.

One of the constant messages from those who do legitimately seem to be "in the know" on this forum is that USAFA offers the Falcon Scholar to those who they would have given an appointment had space been available and want to keep them in the fold so they can bring them in the next year (absent a major downward spiral by the candidate). For USAFA Prep, they describe this as being a place for candidates that have potential but need much more "polish", generally to their academics, to build more structure and discipline for certain candidates who need it or to bring current enlisted candidates back into the academic environment for a better potential transition. They also bring many of their recruited athletes into the Prep program (a significant number of slots are used by them) to help get them ready for the rigors they will face.

Although it's anecdotal, it seems that it is more likely that Falcon Scholars will receive appointments over Prep but it ultimately is up to many factors that cannot be applied universally.

From your description of your DD, it seems that she really is far more academically prepared than her SAT's suggested. It's difficult to know what part of her package they focused on when making the offer, perhaps you will be able to take any/all responses and apply them to her situation to help with some clarity.

If my DS were to be offered Prep, I would advocate for his plan B (4 year AFROTC scholarship at Embry Riddle) because I don't think the value gained in a Prep year will outweigh moving forward towards commission and a strong shot at an ROTC rated pilot slot. Of course it would be his choice, but someone has to be the devil's advocate for an 18 year old who doesn't have the life experience to see the global view just yet.

Best of luck to you and your DD, it's a tough choice, but is sounds like she has the right stuff to be successful no matter the path she chooses.

 

[usafa202?_dad]

Does she want to serve? Is it her goal to attend USAFA?

Yes, but also acknowledges that in the long term 10+ years out she would hope to be able to move to NASA. So she's not thinking her whole career would be in USAF.

...
I don’t think anyone can advise you, or your daughter, what to do.
...

Not expecting advice as to what to do. That's DD's decision. Just hoping for information which might shed additional light on the academic side of prep.

As another person above posted, we have heard that preppies are ahead of the others during BCT in terms of the military side of things.

 

[anlee]

I am a re-applicant and how I see it is that if she is going to re-apply, I would say go to prep. You're more likely to get an appointment coming from USAFA prep and you get some experience before going to the academy.

 

[dhen81]

I am fearing this will be a similar conversation with my son* if *he gets offered prep. He has an AFROTC scholarship and has put a nail in the AFA dream. When I tell him not to close that door just yet he seems adamant he’s not interested in doing 5 yrs of school. Although I think he’s in for a rude awakening taking an engineering track in college that it might take him 4.5-5 yrs to complete.

 

[kpmom2013]

My DD turned down an offer to NAPS and is currently a 2/C Midshipman at USMMA. She was in a similar position to your DD with nearly all A's in IB courses, outstanding leadership and athletics, but lower SAT scores. Her reason for turning down NAPS was similar to your daughter's concern.
She had a strong drive to move forward with her ambitious life goals and thought that a year if prep school would just slow her down. I initially attributed this choice to youthful impatience and short term versus long term thinking. In hindsight, I am very happy she made the decision she did. I think she would have been bored to tears with prep school because it would not have challenged her enough academically. She has a high GPA at USMMA and has taken on the additional opportunity to work toward being a Kings Point Scholar (one of only three in her class) which allows her to do independent research and present and defend her paper to a board of senior faculty. Prep school is indeed a golden ticket, but it is not for everyone. If your daughter is mature, has a strong academic foundation, and strives to get moving toward her career goals by attending a solid academy alternative, I would not stand in her way.

 

[Oscar Whiskey]

I've been lurking here for years. Son previously graduated from USAFA.

DD received offer to the USAFA prep school. She's disappointed and too a large extent doesn't really know how to evaluate the prep school versus other universities. I'm posting here for advice from those of you who are intimately knowledgeable with the Academy's workings, the programme, and how the prep school factors into these matters.

She had low SAT scores. However, her grades are all A's for last two years of high school and mostly A's and a few B's for prior years. Stanford would give credit for her junior and senior courses, including calculus and physics. Her education has been in three countries. As to her low SAT, they literally were the first and only multiple choice exams she ever had in her education. However, her A's do include her taking national exams which are graded independently of her teachers and place her in the top 10%. However, those exams are less focused on speed and more focused on depth of knowledge and accuracy. Think, a small number of questions for which they expect in depth calculations and analysis as opposed to the SATs large number of questions where speed is probably more important.

She applied to five universities and was accepted to four. The only rejection was from an aspirational STEM university, think top 3 university. The universities to which she has been accepted include one in the top 10 and another in the top 15. In addition to those she has the prep offer from USAFA and is still waiting to hear from USNA.

Career wise she is interested in Aerospace/Aeronautical Engineering. She is most interested in military career as being a path to working in a aerospace related field (missiles/satellites/aeronautical engineering) and a possible gateway to NASA. When I say NASA it is an interest in space related engineering. She's not necessarily interested in being an astronaut. So for USAF she is not necessarily thinking pilot. However, she does like the types of activities, discipline, structure and organization which are part of cadet/officer life. She also hopes to play on a sports team at university.

The last item in background, is that she already has an offer for a summer internship at NASA after she completes her first year of university, so summer 2021.

Now as to how she seems to be evaluating this.

(1) She is viewing the prep school as academically repeating high school. We know the prep school seems to present itself as at least junior college level. However, it's not necessarily advancing her academic education. She's concerned about loosing a year academically.

(2) Concerned that if she subsequently receives an appointment that cadets from the prep school may be viewed as "inferior" to other cadets or considered as second class citizens in some manner.

(3) Probably causes her to lose the NASA summer internship. There would be BCT summer of 2021. If she had been accepted to USAFA, she knows it would be up to USAFA, but her ALO gave her the impression she might be allowed to pursue a NASA summer internship if she gave up her vacation.

(4) The prep school doesn't have a women's team in her sport. She would lose a year of playing time which may adversely impact her ability to gain a place if she is subsequently accepted to USAFA. She's pretty confident she would earn a spot at her other universities.

(5) I've suggested to her that she could defer entry by a year to one of the universities to which she has been accepted, and basically view prep as a year of physical/military training. She realizes that but is generally interested in moving forward in life and sees prep as being a delay.

Financially, she would be better off at a service academy both for spending money and debt. Although, her other universities are not likely to result in total debt in excess of $30-40k. So that is not that much of a factor.

I think her issues are the academic content of the prep school courses, whether she feels she would be challenged academically, probability of being subsequently accepted to USAFA, and the desire to be moving forward with her life. She only received one nomination (Representative), are they likely to give a repeat nomination?

Is this something her USAFA counselor or ALO would be willing to discuss with her? Are they likely to give her any feedback as to why they offered a prep school spot? Was it really the low SAT or some other issues? Are the likely to provide insights as to what would have to be different to gain an appointment next year? Should she approach her Representative's office to see how they view the prep school?

If she wants to serve in the military and she wants to have the best in aerospace engineering experiences and facilities -- that Prep School offer is the Golden Ticket. In a 20 year career -- 1 year is like the blink of an eye. It has been my experience that if you go to the Prep School and want to go to the Academy -- you will. With her academics being stellar, the P School will allow her to gain experience in the military & make lasting friendships that will be invaluable when she goes up the Hill and graduates into the Air Force and beyond. As an Academy graduate (Prep School '86), I can truly say that the Prep School was the best thing that could have happened for me. Our Air Force Chief of Staff - Four Star General Goldfein is a Prep School Graduate. My Prep School roommate is a 2-Star General. And my son, USAFA Class of 2023, graduated from the Prep School last year. It sounds like your DD has many excellent opportunities. None of them are bad. I can only tell you that I doubt strongly that she would ever regret choosing to go to the Prep School to start her Air Force Academy experience and AF career! Good Luck and God Speed!

 

[AFBoyMom]

Yes, but also acknowledges that in the long term 10+ years out she would hope to be able to move to NASA. So she's not thinking her whole career would be in USAF.

Considering USAFA just introduced the first 86/87 cadets to the Space Force... the Academy certainly provided ONE avenue to NASA... as others have stated, there are more than one way to achieve your goals. I have only heard amazing things about the prep school... and of course, I am bias as my child did not even hesitate accepting his prep offer... and he too has a very high GPA with advanced classes and a decent SAT/ACT score... Academics, from what I understand and have read, are not traditional academics for ANY student. I have heard and seen really talented, smart kids struggle... so my view is that any year of prep would only strengthen their ability to succeed and excel in ALL aspects of Academy life.

I do wish her good luck and if she ends up at the prep school... our kids will be Class of 2021 Preppies together! Good luck! Very excited for her options... she cannot go wrong.

 

[Capt MJ]

Great points above.

Prep school is not just academics, it’s:
- getting any away-from-home challenges handled, one less thing to worry about at USAFA
- building a head start on that military stuff, uniforms, drill, roommate, bed-making, room inspections, culture, military slang, being Air Force.
- layering on another year of maturity, honing time management skills
- learning from prior enlisted, fantastic mentors
- creating a ready-made set of friends to go to USAFA with
- realizing many 2025 classmates will be her age or older, as re-applicants, prior enlisted, prep schoolers
- being completely in the rhythm of Colorado Springs and adjusted to the altitude, physically prepared
- enjoying the sheer bliss of knowing USAFA so wants her in 2025, they are saving her a seat and handing her a year of a free AF school only offered to a few, with room, board, medical/dental included. All she has to do is satisfactorily complete USAFAPS and remain medically qualified. She still needs to apply for all noms, but even if she doesn’t get one, USAFA will likely solve that.

If she wants USAFA and everything it offers after that in terms of career potential in and out of uniform, she has only to step through the door. She will not be teetering at grave’s edge a year from now.

If she doesn’t want USAFA enough to do this - and that is absolutely okay - she can close the door with a smile and take another path.

 

[Tx2AFA]

Current cadet. I myself elected to go to another school after getting a direct appointment to USAFA but regretted my decision and applied again and was appointed again. The preppies come in much more prepared for BCT and the academic year than any direct appointee. In addition, they have inseparable social bonds to one another since the prep school class is much smaller than a class at USAFA. They are all very close to one another and those friendships last throughout USAFA and a lifetime. In addition, strong students at the prep school actually have an opportunity to take classes up at the Academy during the second semester of their prep school year. This would put them ahead in coursework during their 4-degree year and serves as valuable experience for what classes are like on the Hill. Many great leaders have come out of the prep school including the current CSAF of the Air Force, General Goldfein. He himself took six years to make it through the Academy. Many find their journey through the Academy is not a direct path but it’s an invaluable path none the less.

 

[USMA 1994]

I read this last night and wanted to form a better response for you and your family. I wanted to give you feedback as a graduate, a Field Force Representative, and a father of a female cadet. The perceptions you listed are mostly 180 degrees off to what reality is.

1. The prep schools at the academies are not repeating high school. They are designed to increase the educational foundation of these candidates so they can be successful in the rigors of the four year academic program. High school is not the same as college and SAT have been a very good predictor of success in college level academics. If your SAT scores are low enough to be offered prep, the extra year can only help. I had a similar discussion with my DD about wasting a year of her life. The circumstances were different, she did not get in her first year and was sure that she would waste a year of her life if she did. Your daughter is still 17 or 18 with her entire life in front of her. This extra year of academic and self development will be seen as a blessing a few year down the road.

2. The exact opposite of this impression is usually the case. The "prepsters" are the leaders of the class the next year. The new cadets look up to them and they are light years ahead of most of the new cadets coming directly from high school.

3. This is probably a safe assumption. She will not be able to attend this internship next summer as she will be preparing for I-day and the rigors of Plebe summer, BUT has she looked at the opportunities available to cadets each summer at USAFA? While she may lose this opportunity, the opportunities associated with USAFA are pretty awesome.

4. Sports at the academies are extremely competitive and at the Division I level. Does she have offers from other similar DIV I schools to play her sport? Was she offered a preferred walk on spot? Could she compete at other colleges in the same conference. Was she recruited by the USAFA coaches? If she does not have this level of interest, her likelihood of making the team at USAFA are slim. Most high school athletes think they are very good but the reality is most do not get an opportunity to compete at the Division I level. She will be afforded the opportunity to walk on during Plebe Summer. 99% of these candidates do not make a team. Even if they make it as a Freshman, many do not make it all four years.

5. See response to #1 and #2. Same applies.

You seem to have questions about if she will get an appointment the next year. While nothing in life is 100% guaranteed, the opportunity to get an offer for the class of 2025 is completely dependent on her. She has to work hard and complete all the requirements of the prep school. The US Government is investing a good chunk of resources and wants her to be successful. If she does her part and wants to stay, she will get an offer.

You will see comments about this extra year being a blessing and I whole heartedly agree but let me tell you why most see it this way. Everything in the military is based on an Order of Merit. The extra year of prep will allow her to be a leader in her class as long as she applies herself. The leaders in the class get better choices when it comes to summer training, internships, leadership roles and finally branching. I have never meet a graduate that looks negatively about a year at prep school and many graduates would tell you they had wished they had that year.

Have her reach out to her ALO and have a discussion. He will tell her the same sorts of things I listed above. Look for other graduates in your community. They are not that hard to find. If all that fails, send me a PM. I will have a discussion with her. I am sure my DD would also discuss her story and how this "wasted' year is the best thing that has even happened to her.

Disclaimer: I am a USMA graduate and FFR but the outlook is the same for any of the academies.

 

[Capt MJ]

Add-on to my post: Several of our USNA sponsor family mids have done summer internships at NASA as one of their training blocks. I can’t imagine USAFA cadets would not have the same opportunity, especially with the advent of the Space Force.

 

[AFFwdTX]

Item (3)
DS, 2017 Aero major, raved about the aeronautics research lab at afa. Did summer research at a hyper velocity facility. One thing to remember about the academies is that the research facilities are for the undergrads not the grad students because they don’t exist. It’d be rare opportunity at any other university. DS had similar aspirations as your DD re NASA which is just down the road from us (literally). His goals changed and now he flies very low and slow. DS was a reapplicant from a ROTC program. Everyone’s different but he confided that had he not taken his appointment at the academy he’d have wondered about it for the rest of his life. Good luck to your DD.

 

[bopper]

You are asking in the AFA subforum so I imagine you are going to get many people that push prepschool because their goal is to get into the AFA.
What is your daughter's goal? to go to AFA or to join the Air Force as an officer?
Can you afford college other wise?
For the type of NASA jobs she wants to do, can you see what backgrounds the current occupants of those positions are?

 

[Hockey10]

I will gladly accept correction, but it seems to me that excelling at an academy requires talent and the mindset of wanting to be there. I am sure there are those who trudge their way through, but to take full advantage of all the opportunities an academy offers, most of which we civilian types don't know exist, talent is essential and one must "want it." There is no right or wrong here, but one must be sure of one's decision or regrets, either way, will follow.

 

[FiddleSticks]

If your daughter is that good academically, the Prep School offers the opportunity to take Calc I and English at the academy. If she does well, she can validate these courses the following year. This occurs in the Spring of her Prep year. Give the Prep School a ring. They are standing by to answer questions. Ask for the Dean of Academics.