PSEO Impact on ROTC Timeline

[tjohnson80]

My DD and DS are both in PSEO classes in High School. The objective has been to maximize college credits in their expected paths now to reduce the number of credits/cost in college (not banking on receiving any ROTC scholarships, although they will both apply). Both are expected to complete anywhere from 46 to 54 college credits before graduating high school, which hopefully shaves at least a year to 1.5 years off their college plan.

How does this impact the timeline of the ROTC program or their consideration for scholarships?

 

[kinnem]

The ROTC programs are meant to be 4 year programs. Academic classes, military labs, and summer training are laid out with the expecation that folks will be there for 4 years. I have seen some folks about to complete it in 3.5 years but these were outstanding midshipmen and cadets and they had to double up some semesters to achieve it. There might also be restrictions on their ability to apply based on the number of credit hours (assuming the college accepts them... but then they don't really have them until they're accepted). I suggest you read the various scholarship program web pages. They're easy enough to find.

 

[Tbpxece]

My DD and DS are both in PSEO classes in High School. The objective has been to maximize college credits in their expected paths now to reduce the number of credits/cost in college (not banking on receiving any ROTC scholarships, although they will both apply). Both are expected to complete anywhere from 46 to 54 college credits before graduating high school, which hopefully shaves at least a year to 1.5 years off their college plan.

How does this impact the timeline of the ROTC program or their consideration for scholarships?

What branch ROTC are they considering?

If it's AFROTC, reference AFMAN 36-2032, para. 6.7.1

As long as they enrolled via a joint high school-college program, they will not impact their eligibility. It sounds like that is likely the case, but if this is a home-school situation, be careful.

As for the AFROTC program, it is a 4-year officer training program. If on scholarship, they will be expected to be enrolled in college a minimum of four years, in a full-time status. I've known some cadets in similar situations to either work towards their masters, pick up a foreign language, or minor in something relevant to meet the minimum 12 credit-hour requirement for those last few semesters.

Remember AFROTC is an officer training program-- not a college financing program. For most non-prior service cadets, it will last 4 years.

If that's an issue, then encourage your kids to look at either OTS or enlistment (and then apply to AFROTC via the POC-ERP route).

To be honest, the easiest and safest route would be for them to just go the normal AFROTC path and work towards that graduate degree for the last few semesters. The fastest route would be to get their degree knocked out and then apply to OTS.

The "in-between" route would be to enlist after HS graduation, get in that 2-year-out range of degree completion (using the USAF 100% tuition assistance) and then apply to AFROTC's POC-ERP program (this is a 2-year program).

 

[Tbpxece]

Of additional note-- they will almost certainly need a master's degree to be competitive for Major anyway. Much easier to get it done now than later with spouse, kids, adult responsibilities, etc.

 

[tjohnson80]

Both kids are enrolled in rural MN public schools (PSEO courses are paid by State of MN), no homeschooling.

DD (senior) is interested in AFROTC and AROTC, ultimately wishes to work in law enforcement, criminal investigation, or counseling/social services. She's been accepted into a local out-of-state State University and the college advisor has confirmed her PSEO general courses will all transfer into Psych major with Business minor. Her HSSP interviews are scheduled for mid-Jan (we're aware she has unfortunately missed several rounds of board consideration already... this is our own fault for not properly researching or educating ourselves about ROTC early enough). Local AFROTC said a 3-year "accelerated" ROTC program may be a possibility in this situation. Some HSSP scholarships awarded are for 3 years... in such a case, would the 3-year accelerated program apply or would 4 years in college still be required?

DS (sophomore) is interested in all branches, he's uncertain of where he'd like to attend school, but is leaning towards civil engineering or architecture. Will keep on him over the next 2 years to ensure the scholarship apps are completed in a more timely manner.

Really appreciate the options listed in the replies above - particularly the comment about completing a masters degree if biding time is needed. Financing/scholarships aren't necessarily a major issue, but would definitely help with the decision on whether to pursue dual degree, minor, or masters, etc.

 

[Tbpxece]

DD (senior) is interested in AFROTC and AROTC, ultimately wishes to work in law enforcement, criminal investigation, or counseling/social services. She's been accepted into a local out-of-state State University and the college advisor has confirmed her PSEO general courses will all transfer into Psych major with Business minor.

In my biased opinion, she would do better to go AFROTC if she wants to go LEO or CI. There are no military counseling or social services-type jobs in the AF other than the chaplaincy. AROTC may wind up branching her into something irrelevant. Whereas the AF seems to always be hurting for SF CGO's.

Local AFROTC said a 3-year "accelerated" ROTC program may be a possibility in this situation. Some HSSP scholarships awarded are for 3 years... in such a case, would the 3-year accelerated program apply or would 4 years in college still be required?

They would know better than me, but I've not heard of a 3-year HSSP scholarship. They may be suggesting that she would be eligible for a non-HSSP 3-year award, and yes, that's a possibility. Those scholarships are called ICSP (see AFMAN 36-2032, para. 6.7.2), and go through the Det commander. She would likely need to join or commit to join that Det first to be considered.

I'm very open to being corrected, but HSSP has always been a 4-year scholarship (5-years for most engineering majors).

DS (sophomore) is interested in all branches, he's uncertain of where he'd like to attend school, but is leaning towards civil engineering or architecture. Will keep on him over the next 2 years to ensure the scholarship apps are completed in a more timely manner.

If he wants to go USAF and picks a CE or Architecture degree, and he does not land a rated (i.e. flying) spot, he will be near-guaranteed a spot in the Civil Engineering career field. Not necessarily a good or bad thing, but he needs to be aware of that. It's a very unique career field that he should research prior to jumping in with both feet.

Really appreciate the options listed in the replies above - particularly the comment about completing a masters degree if biding time is needed. Financing/scholarships aren't necessarily a major issue, but would definitely help with the decision on whether to pursue dual degree, minor, or masters, etc.

Before I get corrected, I'll clarify my previous statement-- I said work towards a graduate degree. My understanding is that HSSP will not pay for completion of a graduate degree.

Flipping through AFMAN 36-2032, I was reminded of two additional routes, HPSP and TDSP that may apply. Both have students as ADAF members throughout school (getting full pay and benefits). TDSP graduates complete OTS (or BMT if they flunk out of OTS) immediately following college. HPSP go to DCOT (via OTS).

 

[kinnem]

I think the three year scholarships are still for a 4 year program, not an accelerated 3 year program, with you responsible for tuition freshman year. I know AROTC works that way but I don't claim to be an AFROTC expert.

 

[tjohnson80]

Thanks for the info all, a lot of great options to consider. At first glance, it appears that in the event of an HSSP scholarship, it may work best for DD to immediately continue onto grad school until the 4 years of ROTC are completed. In the event of no scholarship, it may work best for DD to pursue the accelerated 3 year ROTC (she's leaning towards AF), apply for ICSP and other scholarships to possibly help finance her remaining undergrad credits, then utilize Tuition Assistance or GI Benefits to pursue grad school after ROTC.

DS is in a different financial position (blended family) so in the event of no ROTC HSSP, the enlistment and application to AFROTC POC-ERP utilizing TA/GI Benefits may work best for his situation. I'm not familiar with the TA or GI Benefit processes and amounts, so need to do additional research to help identify options for that course.

I re-reviewed both kids' PSEO schedules and it looks like they'll be closer to having 50% of their undergrad requirements completed at the time of HS graduation. We're thankful for the PSEO program providing so many free college credits, but it definitely throws a monkey-wrench into ROTC planning (particularly financially if no scholarships are awarded).

Thanks again for providing all this great info, this site is invaluable!

 

[Tbpxece]

I think the three year scholarships are still for a 4 year program, not an accelerated 3 year program, with you responsible for tuition freshman year. I know AROTC works that way but I don't claim to be an AFROTC expert.

To my recollection you are correct. I'm almost positive the Type II 3-year scholarship is only available by converting a Type 7 4-year award. The package paperwork delineates that clearly, if IIRC. The reality is that there is no desire to accelerate the actual ROTC classes to 3 years. The only accelerated options I'm aware of pertain to prior-service folks who can have up-to the entire GMC portion waived (logical, as most of GMC is covered in BMT, Tech School, and/or EPME).

 

[Tbpxece]

DS is in a different financial position (blended family) so in the event of no ROTC HSSP, the enlistment and application to AFROTC POC-ERP utilizing TA/GI Benefits may work best for his situation. I'm not familiar with the TA or GI Benefit processes and amounts, so need to do additional research to help identify options for that course.

GI Bill is available after 3 years of AD service (Guard/Reserve get a reduced amount, depending on number of days served after 36 months). ADAF tuition assistance (TA) pays 100% tuition and fees up to an annual cap, which typically increases a little each year. It's available after completion of technical training, usually around 12 months in. GI Bill can be used while AD, but it is generally discouraged due to the availability of TA.

Every AF base has 3-4 schools that offer on-base college courses tailor-made to fit with TA tuition constraints. As long as your son pursues a "normal" major, he shouldn't have issues completing enough of it to apply for POC-ERP or ASCP/SOAR ( two other similar prior-enlisted AFROTC routes).

Ultimately, he may find it faster to just finish his degree on AD and apply to OTS (takes 2 months to produce the same result that takes 4 years via AFROTC and USAFA).

The biggest challenge to AD college attendance is the ops tempo. If your son gets an exciting (or high-deployment) AFSC, it may be difficult to prioritize sticking to the college regimen. That was certainly the case for me for the first couple of years.

One final route would be to look at enlisting in a Guard unit. Many states give free instate tuition to ANG and ARNG members at all state colleges. There is a mechanism for Guardsmen to maintain their Guard status while also taking the prerequisite ROTC classes, ultimately commissioning into either the ANG or Active Duty. This is called "purusing status".

It would be the most flexible option for someone who can find a position they like in a Guard unit for a state that has such a program as there would be no need for a scholarship and no degree restrictions. The drawback is that it can take up to a year to get a Basic Training date in the Guard, and no benefits are typically awarded (including pay) until BMT completion.

Tons of options out there-- don't get tunnel visioned into thinking AFROTC and/or HSSP are the only path forward. Keep asking questions as you have them!

 

[tjohnson80]

Update - DD was offered a Commander's Leadership Scholarship (CLS) to her first choice school. She's very excited, but understands that AFROTC scholarships are contingent upon completing all future requirements (DoDMERB, GPA, Fitness Test, selection for SFT, etc). She did receive information about some specifics during the notification, but we've also been searching for additional information online.

Would anyone be able to provide additional information for the following questions?

1. Is there a direct AF ROTC website link that provides the details of this type of scholarship?
2. DD is pursuing a non-tech major, so would this CLS be considered to be the equivalent a Type 2 HSSP?
3. Since DD will have nearly half her Bachelor's Degree requirements completed at HS Graduation (through dual-enrollment in post secondary courses), can CLS funding be applied toward the initiation of her graduate studies... or can CLS scholarship funding only be applied toward Bachelor's Degrees? (this was somewhat addressed in the posts above, just want to make sure there's no nuances with CLS vs HSSP)
4. Does participation in ROTC impact the number of credits/courses a student can realistically complete in a semester? For example - is it possible to take a full course load upwards of 18 credits and still complete the ROTC courses and requirements, or is that not likely?
5. Assuming all is well with DoDMERB, etc, when would DD be considered "contracted" (prior to leaving for college, the first week of college, at the end of first semester, etc)?
6. If at anytime she reconsiders this career path (not expected), is repayment of scholarship funds required?
7. We're somewhat concerned about the SFT selection process with her non-tech major. Does CLS "provide any advantage" (for lack of a better term) that increases the likelihood for selection? She's also applied for an ARTOC scholarship and it's our understanding that is a straight 4 years vs a 2+2... just trying to round up the correct info to consider all possible risks.