Reapply from NROTC or USMMA?

[SAHopeful2021]

I recently received my TWE and it was crushing, but at the same time enlightening as I have committed myself to do whatever it takes to eventually walk out of Bancroft Hall. With that in mind, I don't know if I should choose USMMA or do NROTC at Rutgers or BU majoring in physics freshman year. I reached out to my admissions counselor and he said I should work on improving my CFA, do well in school, and increase my SATs. My SATs were a 650 verbal and 670 math, which is competitive, but obviously not the best. Any advice is appreciated and if anyone would like to understand more of my file, please don't hesitate to direct message me as I would rather have more opinions on weak areas to ensure I get the BFE for 2022.

 

[rlrmilitarymom]

I recently received my TWE and it was crushing, but at the same time enlightening as I have committed myself to do whatever it takes to eventually walk out of Bancroft Hall. With that in mind, I don't know if I should choose USMMA or do NROTC at Rutgers or BU majoring in physics freshman year. I reached out to my admissions counselor and he said I should work on improving my CFA, do well in school, and increase my SATs. My SATs were a 650 verbal and 670 math, which is competitive, but obviously not the best. Any advice is appreciated and if anyone would like to understand more of my file, please don't hesitate to direct message me as I would rather have more opinions on weak areas to ensure I get the BFE for 2022.

I wish I could remember who said this "Its not about being defeated, its about how you handle the defeat". YOU @SAHopeful21 are handling this like a CHAMPTION, a LEADER and someone who will surely achieve your dream in 2022. Keep the FAITH, continue to AIM HIGH and you will continue to do great! God bless you

 

[usna1985]

If you are 100% certain you intend to reapply to USNA, do not attend USMMA as your reapplication to USNA is almost certain to be unsuccessful. The reason is that SAs don't want to be seen as "pilfering" students from each other. It is unwritten policy. Also, they don't want to set up a system where a candidate goes to SA #1, where he/she doesn't really want to be in the hopes of getting into SA#2 the next year. It could quickly become a revolving door and really is somewhat "unsavory" if it were to happen with any frequency. So, bottom line, if you are at SA #1, the chances of being appointed to SA #2 are almost non-existent.

I'm sure someone somewhere knows of it happening but if so it's very, very rare and there may be extenuating circumstances that are not well known. As I posted on another thread the other day, a few years back I corresponded with a candidate who went USMA and tried to reapply to USNA. Had terrific support from USMA officers, numerous MOC noms, and had done extremely well academically, athletically, and in leadership at USMA. Was turned down by USNA.

If you love USMMA and think there is any chance you want to stay there (and you can, of course, commission USN out of USMMA), then you should go there. It's a terrific school in its own right. But doing so essentially quashes any chances of a successful reapplication to USNA.

 

[SAHopeful2021]

If you are 100% certain you intend to reapply to USNA, do not attend USMMA as your reapplication to USNA is almost certain to be unsuccessful. The reason is that SAs don't want to be seen as "pilfering" students from each other. It is unwritten policy. Also, they don't want to set up a system where a candidate goes to SA #1, where he/she doesn't really want to be in the hopes of getting into SA#2 the next year. It could quickly become a revolving door and really is somewhat "unsavory" if it were to happen with any frequency. So, bottom line, if you are at SA #1, the chances of being appointed to SA #2 are almost non-existent.

I'm sure someone somewhere knows of it happening but if so it's very, very rare and there may be extenuating circumstances that are not well known. As I posted on another thread the other day, a few years back I corresponded with a candidate who went USMA and tried to reapply to USNA. Had terrific support from USMA officers, numerous MOC noms, and had done extremely well academically, athletically, and in leadership at USMA. Was turned down by USNA.

If you love USMMA and think there is any chance you want to stay there (and you can, of course, commission USN out of USMMA), then you should go there. It's a terrific school in its own right. But doing so essentially quashes any chances of a successful reapplication to USNA.

Thank you for the brilliant response! I appreciate it.

 

[WI-Dad20/21]

If you love USMMA and think there is any chance you want to stay there (and you can, of course, commission USN out of USMMA), then you should go there. It's a terrific school in its own right. But doing so essentially quashes any chances of a successful reapplication to USNA.

@usna1985 gives you some solid advice. My DS received a TWE from USNA last year and was very disappointed as well. He too had an appointment to USMMA, which was his second choice because it also gave him a pathway into a commission with USN. Right about this time last year we got him out for an overnight visit at USMMA. After seeing the academy first hand and attending classes with the midshipmen, plus learning more about the options it provides following graduation, he knew it was the right place for him. He signed his appointment before leaving the grounds. I half kiddingly asked him if USNA were to call him the following day with an appointment, would he take it. He said no. In fact, his twin brother attended acceptance weekend with us last summer and immediately opened his application for the following year. He'll be joining the class of 2021 in June.

The academics are tough.... they fit four years of college into three, with Sea Year making up the fourth, so don't make your decision lightly. Best wishes and good luck with whatever you decide.

 

[suddensam]

If you are 100% certain you intend to reapply to USNA, do not attend USMMA as your reapplication to USNA is almost certain to be unsuccessful.

Word.

 

[usna1985]

WI-Dad -- so glad your kids love USMMA. The son of one of my USNA classmates is a grad. It's a school that doesn't get nearly the publicity/attention of the "big three" but has so many great options upon graduation. One of our former SuperMods, now a USN MD, is a KP grad.

I kind of hope the OP gives USMMA a chance because it is such a great place. But, it's his/her decision. And it should not be viewed as a "bridge" to USNA but rather a special place unto itself.

 

[Jmoney457]

If you are 100% certain you intend to reapply to USNA, do not attend USMMA as your reapplication to USNA is almost certain to be unsuccessful. The reason is that SAs don't want to be seen as "pilfering" students from each other. It is unwritten policy. Also, they don't want to set up a system where a candidate goes to SA #1, where he/she doesn't really want to be in the hopes of getting into SA#2 the next year. It could quickly become a revolving door and really is somewhat "unsavory" if it were to happen with any frequency. So, bottom line, if you are at SA #1, the chances of being appointed to SA #2 are almost non-existent.

I'm sure someone somewhere knows of it happening but if so it's very, very rare and there may be extenuating circumstances that are not well known. As I posted on another thread the other day, a few years back I corresponded with a candidate who went USMA and tried to reapply to USNA. Had terrific support from USMA officers, numerous MOC noms, and had done extremely well academically, athletically, and in leadership at USMA. Was turned down by USNA.

If you love USMMA and think there is any chance you want to stay there (and you can, of course, commission USN out of USMMA), then you should go there. It's a terrific school in its own right. But doing so essentially quashes any chances of a successful reapplication to USNA.

If you are 100% certain you intend to reapply to USNA, do not attend USMMA as your reapplication to USNA is almost certain to be unsuccessful.

Word.

I'd like to see someone substantiate this advice, in theory it makes sense, but I know that the folks at USNA know that USMMA is a fundamentally different institution, with a mission to produce merchant seamen rather than unrestricted line officers. I would not take this advice at face value.

My friend and ex-classmate was coming up on his 2/C year at Kings Point (USMMA), and he is starting as a plebe at Army West Point this summer. All I'm saying is that USMMA is a very good school, and you should not pass it up because of these comments which nobody seems to be able to substantiate with any facts.

 

[usna1985]

A number of years ago at BGO training, someone asked the question. The answer was that it doesn't happen. Things may have changed but the experience with the WP cadet more recently makes me think it hasn't. USMA may have take a different approach.

I already said that USMMA is a terrific school in its own right -- but it isn't great as an accession point for USNA (nor should it be any more than USNA should be an accession point for USMMA). If the OP wants to take the chance, then he//she should do so.

 

[Jmoney457]

I don't see how the OP is taking a chance greater than the chance he would be taking by going to the NROTC program. Is NROTC a more appropriate accession point for USNA than USMMA? I don't think there's anything concrete to support or detract from that other than the, "Oh, I heard that a number of years ago at BGO training." which really amounts to nothing in my book. This is sort of lesson in questioning everything rather than just nodding and taking a walk.

 

[Old Navy BGO]

I don't see how the OP is taking a chance greater than the chance he would be taking by going to the NROTC program. Is NROTC a more appropriate accession point for USNA than USMMA? I don't think there's anything concrete to support or detract from that other than the, "Oh, I heard that a number of years ago at BGO training." which really amounts to nothing in my book. This is sort of lesson in questioning everything rather than just nodding and taking a walk.

Jmoney - like anything you see on the internet, you have to decide what to believe and not to believe. There are several on here, including USNA1985, who have demonstrated they know what they are talking about. This is an unwritten policy, so you are not going to find it substantiated. If it helps ..I've heard it at BGO training as well.

Are there exceptions ? Likely. Is USMMA different than USMA or USAFA ... Maybe. What is really clear is that several members of each class have done a year or more or at NROTC , and make the transfer to USNA. Your profile indicates you have an appointment to USMMA -- if you are in the same position as OP, trying to decide between USMMA or NROTC , with the hope of attending USNA , there is a lot of good advice on this forum. Your choice whether to believe it or not.

 

[Jmoney457]

Jmoney - like anything you see on the internet, you have to decide what to believe and not to believe. There are several on here, including USNA1985, who have demonstrated they know what they are talking about. This is an unwritten policy, so you are not going to find it substantiated. If it helps ..I've heard it at BGO training as well.

Are there exceptions ? Likely. Is USMMA different than USMA or USAFA ... Maybe. What is really clear is that several members of each class have done a year or more or at NROTC , and make the transfer to USNA. Your profile indicates you have an appointment to USMMA -- if you are in the same position as OP, trying to decide between USMMA or NROTC , with the hope of attending USNA , there is a lot of good advice on this forum. Your choice whether to believe it or not.

I'm actually not in that position, I'm coming up on my 2/c year at USMMA. One of my former classmates recently left USMMA and accepted an appointment to West Point, even though we have an Army commissioning liaison on campus and people go to serve on AD in the Army every year, how does that jive with your policy? Just an exception to the unwritten rule?

 

[Old Navy BGO]

Jmoney457-- for my continuing education, what is your military obligation after graduation ? I know USMMA grads have the opportunity to take a reserve commission, but is it mandatory ? Your comment about an Army liason on Campus suggests that you have the option of going Army, do you also have an option of going USMC or USAF ? I recognize that there doesn't seem to be much of a distinction between inter-branch poaching while enrolled at a Service Academy and post graduate service, but it's not my policy. It's what BGO's have been told, and frankly I don't think that USMMA has ever been specifically mentioned , so perhaps there is an exception. There is, I believe, a formal policy on inter-service transfers for USNA grads, and is extremely limited.

 

[golfindad]

Old BGO, I am sure there are nuances, but, in general terms, the obligation is an 8 year naval reserve obligation with employment in the civil sector in a position that is approved by MARAD--i.e. working under the license. But, one can choose to enter active duty, in any uniformed service, USA, USN, USAF, USMC, USCG, and NOAA, USPHS, (and I think there is one other). If you go active duty, the 8 year reserve and MARAD obligations change to the 5 year active duty obligation. There is a lot of discussion as to how the active duty route is not guaranteed, that usmma grads shouldn't take it, etc., and this is not meant to stir that pot, but, the active duty slots are dependent on the different branches' needs. There does not seem to be many, if any, grads who want active duty that are denied it. Just each year there seems to be a shift in where the slots are. for example, Air Force has been prevalent the last couple years. USN flight reportedly has two spots per year. USMC flight is more open.

 

[Jmoney457]

Jmoney457-- for my continuing education, what is your military obligation after graduation ? I know USMMA grads have the opportunity to take a reserve commission, but is it mandatory ? Your comment about an Army liason on Campus suggests that you have the option of going Army, do you also have an option of going USMC or USAF ? I recognize that there doesn't seem to be much of a distinction between inter-branch poaching while enrolled at a Service Academy and post graduate service, but it's not my policy. It's what BGO's have been told, and frankly I don't think that USMMA has ever been specifically mentioned , so perhaps there is an exception. There is, I believe, a formal policy on inter-service transfers for USNA grads, and is extremely limited.

There are basically 2 different obligations:

8 year reserve (any branch), 5 years sailing (around half the year), maintain the license for 6 years, or
5 years AD (any branch), and 3 years reserve, in this case sailing and the license is a moot point.

And yes, a reserve commission is required if you don't elect active duty service, otherwise USMMA would be indefensible on as a budget line item. However, the specific language in the CFRs is, you must accept the commission, "if one is tendered". So if for some reason conduct, medical, etc the Navy didn't want to give me a commission, I would just graduate without one. That's sort of if you become not eligible for a commission as a 1/C or 2/C, if you're not eligible before that they probably just dis-enroll you.

We get contracted for the USAF junior year just like AFROTC, I believe.
Marine Corps is an option, however, you have to do OCS or PLC for that after graduation.
and of course, also have the options for the Navy, Coast Guard, Army as well.