Reasons to Go USNA……besides flying

J

Just Dad

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Sep 14, 2015
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534
I’ve been thinking about offering up this thread for a while; I hope it has legs.

I found this site about 8 years ago. My DD had an Appointment in hand, and she’d felt a strong draw to become a Mid on a recruiting visit. DD was very uneasy with her lack of knowledge about life at USNA and in the USN. She was 17old and 9years was a big commitment to make based on a short data-stack. She had offers/rides at a bunch of great “Normal Colleges”…. all favored by friends, family, and teachers over USNA. Trying to help, I found this site. I remained a “Guest’” looking for Info on USN and USNA until I DD ran into a DoDMERB issue and I had a process question to ask so I joined.

It makes sense that the great majority of posts here deal with inquiries from young people and parents who know that USNA is the FIRST CHOICE. What makes the best application? What will my Nom Board ask about? Chance Me? B&G interview info,……... and so on. Important stuff, but I suspect that, there are many people who find this great board while seaching for info on life at the USNA and reasons to choose USNA over Duke, or Yale, or……….? I’ve noted that I always see 3-5X Guests-to-Members online at any given time. I wonder how many of those “Guests" are like my DD back in 2015 struggling with their first really meaningful decision in life and desperate for info on what she would be getting into at USNA. Maybe just a Dad looking for info to help my kid, or trying to show the DW that DD/DS going to USNA might not be the end of the world.

Accordingy, I present this Question to this board:
As a current Mid, a USNA Alum, the parent of a Mid, or others with close knowledge of the USNA. ………. What’s your first to come to mind BEST, REASON to attend the USNA?

Something that you would relate to an applicant, or his/her parent reading this board as a Guest looking for info to help with the choice between USNA vs Stanford, USC, Yale, Duke, GTech, Cal, UM, Texas, VT, Etc.

As it happens, I have 3 answers…………but it covers 3 people.

Just DAD says:
#1. I strongly believe that the best thing about the USNA (common to all service academies) is that the USNA flips the Std. economic relationship between student and institution. The USNA isn’t selling seats in lecture halls and Mids aren’t buying office hours. The USNA chooses young people to INVEST in. “A Free Education for 5 years of service” overlooks a wonderful synergy. The Navy’s ROI is based on the quality of service the Mid delivers in those 5years of service, (and USN hopes beyond). It’s in the Navy’s interest to develop each Mid to their fullest potential as a competent capable well-rounded leader,(and it shows in everything they do). The result is a purposeful/broader approach to “education “at USNA. The education of my DD as a whole person is light years beyond what she would have gotten at an Ivy. Truly there is no comparison. My DD left the USNA ready to contribute, ready to lead, ready to win. I am no-where near as proud of DD for choosing Navy as I am happy for her.

I was in Norfolk to see DD off on deployment last month and took the opportunity to ask DD (CL2020) and her guy (also a USNA grad) this“One Best thing “ question. Responses were interesting.

DD surprised me with,…… (Paraphrasing)
“Looking back, I think it’s that the Academy scared me Dad.”

“I wouldn’t have been challenged like I was at the Academy anywhere else. USNA made me tackle things I wouldn’t have chosen for myself (at 18-19 yrs. old). Classes and training were sometimes outside of my comfort zones. I ended up learning that I could do a lot of things I didn’t think I could do, It was 4years of real growth and exploration. The workload was high, and I had service selection goals for myself. I always had too many things I wanted or needed to do, and too little time to get them done. I learned to work under stress, and I learned that I do pretty good work under stress. I am know now that when things get Hairy, I am a good person to have around. That’s huge in my work right now, and I think it always will be for me.“

The Boy Friend had an interesting one. He said, (Paraphrasing):
“I think it’s that the Academy delivered me, a broad/purposeful undergraduate education.”

“I like Poli-Sci and Econ. I think I would have done very well at any college, taking Poli-Sci and Econ classes pretty much exclusively. At the Academy, like all the other Poli-Sci Mids., I took chemistry, math, Physics, leadership, language, seamanship, navigation Etc.. Instead of narrowing my thinking, training, and opportunities to areas I liked at 19yrs old, the Academy set me up with a really broad tool set. I can work with any group of professionals or pursue any Grad Degree program I want.”

Context: Both these young people are doing work they feel is important, both have work responsibilities that dwarf my own at their ages. I don’t know if the boy-friend will get past 7yrs. The private sector has spoken ..OMG!

That’s it. I know these “Best Things” are kinda dry. I hope someone speaks to some of the fun and living experience differences at USNA.

For lurkers with decisions to make, I hope this thread is helpful. Note: DD applied to Stanford and didn’t get in, 2 of her team-mates did. Teased about this (by me) in her 2C year she said. “Dad, if I had been accepted to Stanford I probably would have gone there ………..I got lucky Dad, really lucky!"

To those who don’t get a nod from the Selection Board consider what submitting the application says about you.
Adventurous? (check).
Willing to take on hard work/ hard challenges? (check)
Fearless…[relatively{? (check)
Confident? (check)
Patriotic? (check)
Willing to “Buck the Trend”? (check)
Desire to be a team player? (check)
Willing to roll the dice against Long odds? (Check?)

That’s just for starts. I belive the application says much more about the person than the appointment does.
If this doesn’t play out for you the way you want it to, I still like your long term odds.

If your parents/family seem disappointed, it because they are disappointed for you, not in you. Hell! it makes me feel good knowing that there are young people like you willing to take a shot at this.
 
I believe this is the most helpful (and timely!) post I have read in a long, long time. And I've been here the better part of the past year. I cannot thank you enough for taking the time to write this down @Just Dad. I don't know if you realize how many people will be helped by your thought-provoking post.
 
What a great post! Here’s me helping the post grow the legs to tread water and stay afloat. My DD is currently awaiting a response from USNA regarding an appointment. She has a solid plan B…..that this week looks like it could turn into plan A. I remind her to wait for USNA’s response before she makes any decisions for her future. I’ll show her this post. It might help her decide one way or the other if given the opportunity to do so.
 
Interesting post, no doubt, from one person's perspective. My DS chose Navy from the get for many reasons, beyond flying, but not USNA. I don't think he ever considered being a pilot, but did consider the academy, and everything else the Navy offered. He will commission (fingers crossed) in less than 2 months with his dream 'job.' I think what everyone needs to keep in mind is your son/daughter or you (the applicant) will never know the path you didn't choose (or the one not chosen for you). But you WILL find a home where you land. It's that simple. And, yes, just completing these applications (both USNA and NROTC) is a huge accomplishment. Congrats to all of you, wherever you land.
 
Just Dad said:
I’ve been thinking about offering up this thread for a while; I hope it has legs.

I found this site about 8 years ago. My DD had an Appointment in hand, and she’d felt a strong draw to become a Mid on a recruiting visit. DD was very uneasy with her lack of knowledge about life at USNA and in the USN. She was 17old and 9years was a big commitment to make based on a short data-stack. She had offers/rides at a bunch of great “Normal Colleges”…. all favored by friends, family, and teachers over USNA. Trying to help, I found this site. I remained a “Guest’” looking for Info on USN and USNA until I DD ran into a DoDMERB issue and I had a process question to ask so I joined.

It makes sense that the great majority of posts here deal with inquiries from young people and parents who know that USNA is the FIRST CHOICE. What makes the best application? What will my Nom Board ask about? Chance Me? B&G interview info,……... and so on. Important stuff, but I suspect that, there are many people who find this great board while seaching for info on life at the USNA and reasons to choose USNA over Duke, or Yale, or……….? I’ve noted that I always see 3-5X Guests-to-Members online at any given time. I wonder how many of those “Guests" are like my DD back in 2015 struggling with their first really meaningful decision in life and desperate for info on what she would be getting into at USNA. Maybe just a Dad looking for info to help my kid, or trying to show the DW that DD/DS going to USNA might not be the end of the world.

Accordingy, I present this Question to this board:
As a current Mid, a USNA Alum, the parent of a Mid, or others with close knowledge of the USNA. ………. What’s your first to come to mind BEST, REASON to attend the USNA?

Something that you would relate to an applicant, or his/her parent reading this board as a Guest looking for info to help with the choice between USNA vs Stanford, USC, Yale, Duke, GTech, Cal, UM, Texas, VT, Etc.

As it happens, I have 3 answers…………but it covers 3 people.

Just DAD says:
#1. I strongly believe that the best thing about the USNA (common to all service academies) is that the USNA flips the Std. economic relationship between student and institution. The USNA isn’t selling seats in lecture halls and Mids aren’t buying office hours. The USNA chooses young people to INVEST in. “A Free Education for 5 years of service” overlooks a wonderful synergy. The Navy’s ROI is based on the quality of service the Mid delivers in those 5years of service, (and USN hopes beyond). It’s in the Navy’s interest to develop each Mid to their fullest potential as a competent capable well-rounded leader,(and it shows in everything they do). The result is a purposeful/broader approach to “education “at USNA. The education of my DD as a whole person is light years beyond what she would have gotten at an Ivy. Truly there is no comparison. My DD left the USNA ready to contribute, ready to lead, ready to win. I am no-where near as proud of DD for choosing Navy as I am happy for her.

I was in Norfolk to see DD off on deployment last month and took the opportunity to ask DD (CL2020) and her guy (also a USNA grad) this“One Best thing “ question. Responses were interesting.

DD surprised me with,…… (Paraphrasing)
“Looking back, I think it’s that the Academy scared me Dad.”

“I wouldn’t have been challenged like I was at the Academy anywhere else. USNA made me tackle things I wouldn’t have chosen for myself (at 18-19 yrs. old). Classes and training were sometimes outside of my comfort zones. I ended up learning that I could do a lot of things I didn’t think I could do, It was 4years of real growth and exploration. The workload was high, and I had service selection goals for myself. I always had too many things I wanted or needed to do, and too little time to get them done. I learned to work under stress, and I learned that I do pretty good work under stress. I am know now that when things get Hairy, I am a good person to have around. That’s huge in my work right now, and I think it always will be for me.“

The Boy Friend had an interesting one. He said, (Paraphrasing):
“I think it’s that the Academy delivered me, a broad/purposeful undergraduate education.”

“I like Poli-Sci and Econ. I think I would have done very well at any college, taking Poli-Sci and Econ classes pretty much exclusively. At the Academy, like all the other Poli-Sci Mids., I took chemistry, math, Physics, leadership, language, seamanship, navigation Etc.. Instead of narrowing my thinking, training, and opportunities to areas I liked at 19yrs old, the Academy set me up with a really broad tool set. I can work with any group of professionals or pursue any Grad Degree program I want.”

Context: Both these young people are doing work they feel is important, both have work responsibilities that dwarf my own at their ages. I don’t know if the boy-friend will get past 7yrs. The private sector has spoken ..OMG!

That’s it. I know these “Best Things” are kinda dry. I hope someone speaks to some of the fun and living experience differences at USNA.

For lurkers with decisions to make, I hope this thread is helpful. Note: DD applied to Stanford and didn’t get in, 2 of her team-mates did. Teased about this (by me) in her 2C year she said. “Dad, if I had been accepted to Stanford I probably would have gone there ………..I got lucky Dad, really lucky!"

To those who don’t get a nod from the Selection Board consider what submitting the application says about you.
Adventurous? (check).
Willing to take on hard work/ hard challenges? (check)
Fearless…[relatively{? (check)
Confident? (check)
Patriotic? (check)
Willing to “Buck the Trend”? (check)
Desire to be a team player? (check)
Willing to roll the dice against Long odds? (Check?)

That’s just for starts. I belive the application says much more about the person than the appointment does.
If this doesn’t play out for you the way you want it to, I still like your long term odds.

If your parents/family seem disappointed, it because they are disappointed for you, not in you. Hell! it makes me feel good knowing that there are young people like you willing to take a shot at this.
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Great insight as always. I have nothing to add. Your post is very timely and appropriate. Can’t believe our kids are doing the things!!!
 
Just Dad said:
“Dad, if I had been accepted to Stanford I probably would have gone there ………..I got lucky Dad, really lucky!"
Click to expand...
This is a hugely impactful and humble statement.

My son's statement would be similar but different. Different in that he didn't get in any service academy. He truly wasn't ready then. He wandered in the wilderness of five colleges, chasing the sports dream, and finally graduated at the fifth one. His journey prepared him for every job and every billet he's filled so far in the Marine Corps. He's humble, hard working, and takes care of his people like no other I've ever known or heard of.

He uses his "five colleges, I graduated from a mid-ranked state school" story when counseling his company commanders, company XO's, and the platoon commanders when they need it but aren't getting it from their leaders. Based on his past and current performance and reputation, it delivers a powerful punch when delivered to those who need a reality check.

Just Dad said:
Your daughter: "I learned to work under stress, and I learned that I do pretty good work under stress. I am know now that when things get Hairy, I am a good person to have around. That’s huge in my work right now, and I think it always will be for me.“
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I hope and I would bet this includes taking care of the people she may be charged with leading. Junior officers and especially academy grads have a lot to prove when they hit the deck plates on their first ship. Sailors don't care how smart they are but that their officers care. Using that expensive education for more than learning systems and getting quals signed off is a must.

Just Dad said:
The BF: Instead of narrowing my thinking, training, and opportunities to areas I liked at 19yrs old, the Academy set me up with a really broad tool set. I can work with any group of professionals or pursue any Grad Degree program I want.”
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I agree. I believe he will get out after his commitment is up. His response sounds like his time at USNA was all about him. I hope I'm wrong but he has the opposite view of what server leadership is all about.
 
Devil Doc said:
This is a hugely impactful and humble statement.

My son's statement would be similar but different. Different in that he didn't get in any service academy. He truly wasn't ready then. He wandered in the wilderness of five colleges, chasing the sports dream, and finally graduated at the fifth one. His journey prepared him for every job and every billet he's filled so far in the Marine Corps. He's humble, hard working, and takes care of his people like no other I've ever known or heard of.

He uses his "five colleges, I graduated from a mid-ranked state school" story when counseling his company commanders, company XO's, and the platoon commanders when they need it but aren't getting it from their leaders. Based on his past and current performance and reputation, it delivers a powerful punch when delivered to those who need a reality check.


I hope and I would bet this includes taking care of the people she may be charged with leading. Junior officers and especially academy grads have a lot to prove when they hit the deck plates on their first ship. Sailors don't care how smart they are but that their officers care. Using that expensive education for more than learning systems and getting quals signed off is a must.


I agree. I believe he will get out after his commitment is up. His response sounds like his time at USNA was all about him. I hope I'm wrong but he has the opposite view of what server leadership is all about.
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I feel like I should respond to a couple of things:

I remember your son’s story Doc. Its impressive and I have referenced it a couple of times in conversations with friends and family (truly). I’d go on here but I don’t have a lot of time this AM.

Re DD and boy friends responses. The question I asked was limited in scope and a “One reason” a Kid should pick USAN over another school.
Not how does a good officer go about the business of being a leader. But since your kinda questioning that.

In her first deployment DD was given the youngest least proven Es for her watch (I think 7 of them) she ended up recommending (and getting) 5 of them letters of commendation for their service records. I remember DD writting to me that Fleet Staff had started rolling new E’s through her watch. She was loosing her team because Staff felt other watches needed them and (she was told) other Es needed to be “brought along”.

When the Nimitz was about to take a straight up set of INDO PAC rookies on deployment she was requested by name to train them up in San Diego, (she ended up supporting CSG1 (?) through its first 2 months of deployment and ended up “getting snuck off the boat while the Adm. wasn’t looking"

DD has joined a new command, but one of the E’s from her first deployment recently called her because he was well and truly screwed (document train stuff). My daughter was the one this young man turned to when his own chain of command wasn’t getting it done. DD laughed as she told me about the apologizing calls she made up a couple of chains, because technically it was none of her business. She got her guy’ issue resolved in 48hrs.

NOTE: if it isn’t clear by now…..you’ve touched a nerve with your comments. I am pretty sure DD told me this story because taking care of your team was a lesson I paid particular attention to while DD was growing up. DD told me about this snafu with her old E/teammate because she knew I’d be proud what she did. Like I was at USNA when she interrupted a conversation with me to take a call from a troubled Plebe who had gotten off on the wrong foot with her Company and was in danger of leaving the Academy. The Plebe called to tell DD she aced a test. I was so proud of DD in that moment! The Plebe graduated CL2023

Home from deployment, DD was tagged to be Operations officer for a Fleet Information Group (hope the name is close) at ONI. She drew the job precisely because the LtCmdr who was leaving the job figured she’d do a good job for the Es and JOs in the field. DD managed 144 officers/Es in at sea acting as the primary call back point…..She hated that job. Basically HR for for Fleet Information. She shared a bit of her fitness Rpts with her mother and I they because she was happy; when I am feeling down I sometimes reread them.

The Boy friend? “out for himself”?. I will admit that the BF is a bit of a Smoozher, but he loves the Navy. He is humble, honest to the core and an insanely hard worker. Add to this that he’s worked his ass off for everything he’s ever gotten (parents came to the USA with nothing). He got his MA via VEGEP and then worked a second MS from Stanford while at sea and in port during COVID deployments. A SWO, he re-upped for 2 after his first 5. DD tells me that he’d stay in for another two but he’s a kid who wants to do big stuff (not easy for a JO in the USN). His “problem” is (in my view) an insane offer thats come out for the private sector. I’d take this offer and I am pretty sure you would too.

There: I feel better and I have work to do this AM. You have much to be proud of in your son’s story D-Doc, (I mean it). I like your post her but for me this one is a “flat note”. Gotta say I enjoyed bragging on my kid, thanks for the opportunity.

Best:

written in a hurry…..probably reads like (poop emoji)
 
@justdad My apologies for the way it came across. I should have just liked your post and moved along. I shouldn't post anything on any forum while at work. I'm currently in a meeting and trying to keyboard this with my head spinning due to the idiocy of what my colleagues are saying. I should still not be writing this at this time but felt it important to say I regret writing what I did.

I've jumped the shark on this site and usually have nothing of value to contribute and keep telling myself to stay away.
 
Devil Doc said:
I've jumped the shark on this site and usually have nothing of value to contribute and keep telling myself to stay away.
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You are, as usual, completely wrong and I continue to look forward to your posts. :wiggle:

Don't let the world get you down. Just keep striving to make it better, one post, one smile, one head shake at a time. We're all in this together.
 
Devil Doc said:
@justdad My apologies for the way it came across. I should have just liked your post and moved along. I shouldn't post anything on any forum while at work. I'm currently in a meeting and trying to keyboard this with my head spinning due to the idiocy of what my colleagues are saying. I should still not be writing this at this time but felt it important to say I regret writing what I did.

I've jumped the shark on this site and usually have nothing of value to contribute and keep telling myself to stay away.
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Ah Nope: you are one of the voices here that I really enjoy.

I coulda done better yesterday, I was in a huge hurry to get out the door and headed to a contentious meeting. 3hrs out+6hr meeting+3hrs home.

I should have cut my response to you at:
"Re DD and boy friends responses. The question I asked was limited in scope and a “One reason” a Kid should pick USAN over another school.
Not how does a good officer go about the business of being a leader."

This thread failed in its purpose. My intention was to get parents, Mids, alums, Etc., to chime in with the great things about the USNA. I know that, like my DD in 2015, there are young people holding USNA appointments along with offers form other great schools making the biggest decision of their lives (so far).. If they are like my Kid, USNA hasn’t been a life long dream school and a 9year commitment (not knowing about two-4-seven) scares em some. They know the Academy is unique. But “good" unique or “bad” unique?….is USNA really worth that level of commitment at 17-18?

I’d hoped trigger some real strong recs and complements, but no big deal.

I shouldn’t have added popped off bragging about my kid. That said, taking care of your team-mates and respecting their contributions was a point of emphasis for both my girls. Theres a story behind it, but my post are already over long. I think the few words on the boyfriend were called for. Such a great guy and Navy to his core. He didn’t 5-n-dive, he has 7 in……….. and he is actually struggling with the decision of leaving for a 10X.. pay bump.

Anyway best to you, I sure hope my comments yesterday don’t limit your input here. I like your sense of humor and your input here.

I take it ALL if your thinking of thortteling back on your input here.

PS:
"I'm currently in a meeting and trying to keyboard this with my head spinning due to the idiocy of what my colleagues are saying.”
Sounds like you were in an engineering change board meeting……..yes?


Best to you:
 
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@Just Dad thanks for your response but I was out of line. This isn't the first thread I've derailed. I don't need to comment on everything, especially the topics that don't concern me and here lately, ones I have no knowledge of outdated knowledge of.

And likewise, I enjoy and respect your posts as well, regardless of my funny way of showing it.

Your daughter and her boyfriend sound like awesome people and officers. I meant no disrespect.
 
Sorry DD just have to add this. Poor editing by me should read

“I take it ALL BACK if your thinking of throttling back your input here"
 
Just Dad said:
Sorry DD just have to add this. Poor editing by me should read

“I take it ALL BACK if your thinking of throttling back your input here"
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We're all good. Hopefully folks will chime in and add to your original post. I can think of dozens of reasons to attend the United States Naval Academy. The first reason that comes to mind however is: It sets one up for life.

That reason is contradictory to what I regretfully said above but putting aside patriotism, the desire to serve, and a purpose greater than oneself, a young person would be wise to think beyond the next four years. I had a maternal aunt who told me I'd "be set for life if I made a career of it." The "it" was the US Navy and she was correct. She told me that on my first leave after boot camp. Because of my 26 years in the world's greatest navy, I am set for life.

A graduate of the USNA however doesn't have to do 26 years to be in a good position to be set for the rest of their lives. All service academies are elite institutions on level with any Ivy or the Dukes and Stanfords of the world as far as reputation, but I'd say far superior in the area of developing graduates equipped to take on any challenge.

Corporations that don't know the value of hiring an academy grad needs a revamp of their talent acquisition department. The intuition's name on the diploma let's hiring managers know the value the person would bring due to the rigorous curriculum. A degree in History also means classes in engineering, calculus, and other difficult subjects. The classes and other activities in leadership adds even more to the value.

So, regardless of a young person's thoughts on the rest of their life while in high school contemplating their school choices, the best reason for choosing the U.S. Naval Academy is it sets one up for the rest of their lives.
 
Here are some thoughts from a sort of recent grad:

1. You will make friends for the rest of your life and you will run into them at different points in your career. Other schools will give you friends, but normal college students take very divergent paths. A physics major can be friends with an econ major at any school, but they will likely do things and go to places that are vastly different. Everyone will go into the military and you will inevitably see people throughout your career. I was in San Diego and I went to the world famous I Bar and I ran into plenty of friends from USNA and flight school that I was not expecting to see. My old USNA roommate came to my air base and did approaches and while I didn't get to see him, I got to see him flying. I saw him on my San Diego work trip as well. Also, nothing makes closer bonds than meeting people under stressful circumstances and trauma bonding during training!

2. USNA will make you think of the world around you. The military is directly affected by world events. It is quite easy to just view the world through your own lens. However, you will have at least a vague familiarity of why the Navy does what it does and goes where it goes. It is even better if one takes a deeper dive into the issues. Regardless, you will think of the world through somewhat of an international lens and you will understand how the Navy, the military as a whole, and the USA fits into the international arena. Especially with today's era of strategic competition, most of adversaries are maritime nations. The Navy is in very high demand alongside with our USMC brothers and sisters.

3. This is incredibly basic, but you will be asked to do some incredibly cool things, most of which is not available in the civilian world. Fly a fighter jet or an Osprey, go to shore in the back of an AAV, maintain your stealth in a submarine, shoot down missiles from a ship, etc. Regardless of how long you stay, you will do something fun and exciting and it will be for a higher calling.

My only current wish is I want to see Navy Football get the CINC trophy again, but USAFA is very much dominating.
 
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