After contracting illness, incoming cadet hospitalized. VERY difficult for parents to obtain status, plan, etc. Nobody returning phonecalls, never same person. Appears 'adults' let senior cadets handle things without adequate supervision. Cadet ultimately 'recycled' after two week hospitalization. Put thru psych eval. Wouldn't YOU be upset if all hyped up for application / acceptance and then be 'recycled' with 'the system' screwing your parents around? Does USMA really think they have unlimited applicants - they can shxy on any number of them with impunity? Is this what USMA thinks builds 'toughness'? What it breeds is bad reports to future applicants to GO NAVY or elsewhere and avoid the USMA abuse.
'recycled' after illness during first weeks - poorly handled - no 'adult' in the room?
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wonder2024
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I'm not understanding what you mean by "recycled." Are you not able to contact the cadet? At 18 they are adults, and that is the way the system treats them - so information wouldn't be given to you necessarily.
GWU PNS (emeritus)
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I am trying to understand which occurred here. Nobody returned your call? Or people returned your call, but it was a different person each time........which is it?
Military academies provide the opportunity for senior Cadets and Midshipmen to lead. There are multiple layers of leadership, to include active duty officers and senior enlisted members. They are not perfect, but they have been successful for decades. And has been mentioned in the previous response, there are HIPPA concerns as well as general expectations of privacy considering your child has now reached adulthood.
It is clear that you are upset and rightfully concerned over the wellfare of your child. No one begrudges you that. Nevertheless, in your first post on the forum, you make some fairly broad allegations, you indite an entire institution with scant information, and you seem to be unwilling to consider that perhaps your child should have been the one keeping you informed?
I guess what I am really looking for is this......what would you want the forum posters to do here exactly?
this person is now at a university in southeast, and probably will not reapply to USMA. He was accepted at USNA and MerMarAcad also - so there is no problem with using academic / athletic talents elsewhere. Parent working in CA drove 48 hours to USMA because planes were grounded at this point in JUN 2024. Arrived to pick up son and told 'we can release him, but then we'd have to charge him with being AWOL'. So, your holding him against his will? Back and forth 5 times. 6'3 240 lb MP comes out to talk to the dad. Nobody has the whole story. Nobody is in charge or takes responsibility. Everybody just wants the dad to go away. Kid finally released next day. 4 hours on road toward home, and a call - you need to return for paperwork. Released from hospital - but not from USMA. Really? Mail it to us, cadet. Biggest clusterf*%# I have heard of since Vietnam.
gniyji
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during the CBT (cadet basic training AKA BEAST), cadets' cellphones are taken away. They can write and receive letters. Not sure OP's cadet's phone was returned when he/she was in the hospital, or even he/she was too sick to use phone.
As parents, we really don't know who to contact at West Point except we have a Public Affairs Specialist (with email and cell phone number)who sends us updates
Do feel sorry for OP's experience --
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These are always difficult situations, and there is no guarantee it would be any different processing out of another service academy or other active duty program.
Incoming cadets and midshipmen make elections upon reporting in about whether they wish parents to have access to academic, conduct, honor, military performance, medical/dental, locations, etc. Throw HIPAA in the mix, and it is indeed difficult. The military member has to authorize healthcare providers to contact family members.
USMA hospital could release him from their care but not active duty in the Army. The hospital is a tenant command, and not where he was attached for duty. USMA was his parent command, and all the forms and paperwork he completed after accepting an appointment have to be undone, papers signed, CAC card surrendered, issue items returned, pay accounts settled and closed and many other out processing actions. I don’t think the admin burden of entering or leaving military service has changed since before the Roman Legions.
It is always upsetting when a new cadet’s path is abruptly derailed. I am pleased to hear he was resilient and proactive and already back in school. If he still wants an Army officer commission, there is AROTC and OTS or even reapply to a SA, unless there is a medical or other discharge issue that will prevent him from pursuing military service (not asking).
The decision to separate a cadet, involuntarily or voluntarily, is not undertaken lightly, ever. USMA spent a lot of time and careful thinking on evaluating candidates to whom they wished to offer an appointment. There are internal discussions and approvals before these decisions are reached, and it’s agreed it’s best for the cadet and best for the Army to part ways at this time.
For others who might face this in future, faced with an array of people to deal with in a confusing separation situation - contact the USMA chaplains for assistance in navigation. Military chaplains have a magic way of finding out what’s going on, navigating admin hurdles, putting the right people in touch, working up-down-across the chain of command, caring for the cadet or midshipman, knowing how to advise upset parents and smoothing the path ahead.
Incoming cadets and midshipmen make elections upon reporting in about whether they wish parents to have access to academic, conduct, honor, military performance, medical/dental, locations, etc. Throw HIPAA in the mix, and it is indeed difficult. The military member has to authorize healthcare providers to contact family members.
USMA hospital could release him from their care but not active duty in the Army. The hospital is a tenant command, and not where he was attached for duty. USMA was his parent command, and all the forms and paperwork he completed after accepting an appointment have to be undone, papers signed, CAC card surrendered, issue items returned, pay accounts settled and closed and many other out processing actions. I don’t think the admin burden of entering or leaving military service has changed since before the Roman Legions.
It is always upsetting when a new cadet’s path is abruptly derailed. I am pleased to hear he was resilient and proactive and already back in school. If he still wants an Army officer commission, there is AROTC and OTS or even reapply to a SA, unless there is a medical or other discharge issue that will prevent him from pursuing military service (not asking).
The decision to separate a cadet, involuntarily or voluntarily, is not undertaken lightly, ever. USMA spent a lot of time and careful thinking on evaluating candidates to whom they wished to offer an appointment. There are internal discussions and approvals before these decisions are reached, and it’s agreed it’s best for the cadet and best for the Army to part ways at this time.
For others who might face this in future, faced with an array of people to deal with in a confusing separation situation - contact the USMA chaplains for assistance in navigation. Military chaplains have a magic way of finding out what’s going on, navigating admin hurdles, putting the right people in touch, working up-down-across the chain of command, caring for the cadet or midshipman, knowing how to advise upset parents and smoothing the path ahead.
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Some points to consider:
- Cadets do not make decisions concerning medical issues, "recycling", separation, etc.
- Company Tactical Officer is the legal commander and, in my experience has never been difficult to contact. Depending on situation, Tactical Officer, Commandant, Superintendent make such decisions.
- HIPPA rules apply to cadets. During in-processing every cadet has the option to grant parents the right to access to medical information. If the cadet in question did not grant this access, medical authorities and chain-of-command have no option to allow parent access to medical information.
- When an individual enters USMA, USNA, etc., they join the military and are subject to military rules and regulations. Separating, voluntarily or involuntarily, is a well known bureaucratic process that takes longer than most would think. Trying to circumvent that process only makes it more frustrating. No SA is easier to get out of than another - they are all equally bureaucratic.
Another parent experience. We had one on the E side as well. They were usually allowed phones for 20 minutes every Sunday, but we knew some times may not happen. Anyway, one time we get a call on a random weekday where he let me know he was sent to ER the day or two earlier and would fill us in when he could. Then a week or so later, he told us he was sent for surgery but they forgot to "let him have his phone to notify us". We wouldnt really know what that meant regarding recovery/ recycling, etc until he graduated BCT.
All we knew as parents was that 1) He belonged to Uncle Sam and they made the decisions, not parents. 2) If he were to get recycled, it would likely take weeks to get sent home ( if he needed more than 6 months before 2nd attempt). Or, he would just sit there and watch paint dry until able to join new class. 3) Army rules/process work for the larger group structure. It doesn't necessarily work for individuals in that group. It is very unfortunate, but I get it in the big picture.
That said, I am mostly concerned about the illness/hospitalization piece from the 1st post. It seems based on recent threads that all units of the military have some serious issues with treating illnesses. I hope the person mentioned has recovered.
First, I’m not sure the situation would have been much different at a different SA. I do know that at USAFA, phones are given back to basics in isolation or are hospitalized for a period of time each day so that parent’s can be updated. However, this is probably not high on the priority list so days could be missed. I’m not sure if the other SAs have this policy, but I’d be surprised if they don’t have some policy on this.
Typically “recycled” means that the new cadet was too sick or injured to pass CBT. Therefore, they cannot continue with their class. Often, if the cadet can fully recover before the next class enters, they get “recycled” to the next class. This may or may not require a new application. When cadets choose not to come back, it is usually the cadet’s choice. Now, all of that is subject to change on a whim with new leadership and protocols. In my limited experience, permanent party (the “adults” in this case) try everything they can to keep cadets from washing out. One of my roommates back in the day fell into this category. She blew out her knee requiring surgery so she went home, had surgery, recovered and came back to be a part of my class. My son’s roommate was on crutches for much of his BCT, but he was able to complete enough of it that USAFA called him good. His injury did not require surgery, just rest and healing. The same thing happened when COVID ran through. The cadets were isolated and treated but were allowed to resume BCT and passed.
I do think it is a hard transition for parents when their kids become adults and that is magnified when they join the military. I remember being a bit shocked when I couldn’t print out my newly-18 year old ds’s shot records. Having no access to his medical records was not on my radar since he hadn’t even graduated high school yet. He did sign HIPPA release forms so that we could get information in the case he isn’t able to give permission. I have no access to his grades or report cards. I don’t think USAFA has this option. DS just tells me how he’s doing. I do see Comm/Dean/AD/Supt lists from time to time through our Parent’s Club.
Usnavy2019
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Military medicine is an interesting case. There is an interplay between the medical and military sides of the house. For example, while HIPAA is respected, a CO can order certain evaluations or gain access to medical information in certain circumstances. Additionally, being in the hospital or having any medical appointment is an appointed place of duty (i.e., you were supposed to be at a specific place at a specific time). Leaving the hospital before discharge is a UA. Additionally, after discharge, your duty location becomes your work unless you are on some type of approved time away from work (convalescent leave, SIQ, etc.). Also, with the limited funding available in the military, care has to be balanced with resources. Military medicine has been drawn down, so there are fewer people and resources to treat the same number of servicemembers, their families, and retirees. There is also the desire to either continue to work or to get someone back to work ASAP. Some servicemembers don't want to go through the work of getting an appointment and then missing time from work. Others might work in medically sensitive communities such as aviation and they do not want to be grounded/restricted. Other times, losing people for medical reasons is viewed as an inconvenience, so there is close monitoring to ensure the quickest possible return.
And as stated by @99Gold, I think this is just an experience with how the military works with medicine. To be sure, parents have a right to be worried about their children. There is a lot of personal, financial, and emotional skin in the game. But, when cadets swear their oath, the military takes over from there. Their medical information is between them and those who need to know (i.e. doctors, their CoC, etc.). Even with the CoC, there is limited divulgence. The MP is not going to know what is going on. Their sole job is to enforce the UCMJ and other applicable laws and regulations. So all the MP would care about is if the cadet is supposed to be where they are (i.e. not UA). The CoC probably wouldn't have answers as to why the cadet was diagnosed with X illness which requires a two-week hospital stay. Even if they did, they probably would not be at liberty to divulge that information without the specific authorization of the cadet. As others have said, recycling is not a trivial matter. However, there is a limit to how much training can be missed and be on glideslope with the rest of their classmates. Discharge from the hospital, even if the result is leaving the military is an independent process. Leaving USMA and the Army is its own process.
And as stated by @99Gold, I think this is just an experience with how the military works with medicine. To be sure, parents have a right to be worried about their children. There is a lot of personal, financial, and emotional skin in the game. But, when cadets swear their oath, the military takes over from there. Their medical information is between them and those who need to know (i.e. doctors, their CoC, etc.). Even with the CoC, there is limited divulgence. The MP is not going to know what is going on. Their sole job is to enforce the UCMJ and other applicable laws and regulations. So all the MP would care about is if the cadet is supposed to be where they are (i.e. not UA). The CoC probably wouldn't have answers as to why the cadet was diagnosed with X illness which requires a two-week hospital stay. Even if they did, they probably would not be at liberty to divulge that information without the specific authorization of the cadet. As others have said, recycling is not a trivial matter. However, there is a limit to how much training can be missed and be on glideslope with the rest of their classmates. Discharge from the hospital, even if the result is leaving the military is an independent process. Leaving USMA and the Army is its own process.
Pattonsghost
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I'm confused by the "after a few weeks part. This all went down in June 2024, but Beast didn't start until July this year
ALF648
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Like @justme our DS was hospitalized during BCT. The only way we found out about this is I got a phone call from our son. Not because he had his cell phone back but because he realized he had a phone in his Keller hospital room after he’d been there a day
This was hard for his parents. I come from a medical family so it might have been easier for us to project forward once we had the diagnosis. At the same time when he applied the only way for us to handle his decision with any grace was to realize that it’s not our lives. It’s his life. It was and is difficult not to continue our deep participation in every facet of his life as we had growing up…but that is the point. We recognized that he might be recycled, but assumed if that happened that he’d get a shot the next year.
In the end his cadre worked to get him back out to complete his training and he’s now a firstie. I do understand OPs point about the parents rushing to the cadet’s side…. We chose not to do that because he was receiving medical care AND because this was our first collective test of his emancipation and his decision to serve.
This was hard for his parents. I come from a medical family so it might have been easier for us to project forward once we had the diagnosis. At the same time when he applied the only way for us to handle his decision with any grace was to realize that it’s not our lives. It’s his life. It was and is difficult not to continue our deep participation in every facet of his life as we had growing up…but that is the point. We recognized that he might be recycled, but assumed if that happened that he’d get a shot the next year.
In the end his cadre worked to get him back out to complete his training and he’s now a firstie. I do understand OPs point about the parents rushing to the cadet’s side…. We chose not to do that because he was receiving medical care AND because this was our first collective test of his emancipation and his decision to serve.
gniyji
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question about recycle ! For new cadet, if he/she fails to complete CBT, he/she will be recycled -- to apply for next year class (possible to have an LOA).
what happens to Cadet Field Training (CFT), if a cadet fails CFT due to illness/injury (but is projected for full recovery) ?
what happens to Cadet Field Training (CFT), if a cadet fails CFT due to illness/injury (but is projected for full recovery) ?
One option (probably not an altogether infrequent result) is that CFT will be accomplished later (as it is a graduation requirement). This could mean an August graduation or even a December graduation. Similar approach could be taken by USMA with any graduation requirement if the situation warrants the delayed graduation. But, when it comes to Beast, it would be unusual to let the Cadet go into the academic school year if they had been unable to finish.
Dan
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Many good and balanced comments above.
For general readership purposes, I wanted to touch lightly on “holding him against his will.”
Military members receive many benefits during their active duty time (untaxed allowances, educational benefits, professional skills training, free medical and dental care, etc.), and as retirees and qualified veterans, DoD, VA and state benefits.
The trade-off is they volunteer for 24/7/365 military service, during which every minute of their lives is classified in a status of some kind: active duty, leave, liberty, temporary duty, duty under instruction, medical hold, unauthorized absence, AWOL, etc. No military member, even admirals and generals, can decide one afternoon they are leaving their job (assigned duty) in the service and walk away, and they are out that day. They are not free to do so and have not been since the day they raised their right hand and swore an oath to serve, no matter how short or long a time they have been in military service. They may be officially detached or separated from active military service and returned to civilian status, but only after the proper process has been followed to undo all the official paperwork that put them into military service. And, if a military member has obligated service remaining or other obligations, they cannot request to separate until after their eligibility date. This is very different from civilian employment, where an employee can generally walk off their job, give notice or be fired, gather up their stuff, collect final paperwork and be gone the same day, exercising their free will.
The SAs have a duty to address health issues and make determinations about what is the best solution for the cadet that is also best for the SA and the needs of the service, in terms of mission, policy and precedent. They can separate a cadet fairly expeditiously, but they don’t rush the decision, to ensure the cadet’s case is given proper consideration by the chain of command and other relevant authorities.
For general readership purposes, I wanted to touch lightly on “holding him against his will.”
Military members receive many benefits during their active duty time (untaxed allowances, educational benefits, professional skills training, free medical and dental care, etc.), and as retirees and qualified veterans, DoD, VA and state benefits.
The trade-off is they volunteer for 24/7/365 military service, during which every minute of their lives is classified in a status of some kind: active duty, leave, liberty, temporary duty, duty under instruction, medical hold, unauthorized absence, AWOL, etc. No military member, even admirals and generals, can decide one afternoon they are leaving their job (assigned duty) in the service and walk away, and they are out that day. They are not free to do so and have not been since the day they raised their right hand and swore an oath to serve, no matter how short or long a time they have been in military service. They may be officially detached or separated from active military service and returned to civilian status, but only after the proper process has been followed to undo all the official paperwork that put them into military service. And, if a military member has obligated service remaining or other obligations, they cannot request to separate until after their eligibility date. This is very different from civilian employment, where an employee can generally walk off their job, give notice or be fired, gather up their stuff, collect final paperwork and be gone the same day, exercising their free will.
The SAs have a duty to address health issues and make determinations about what is the best solution for the cadet that is also best for the SA and the needs of the service, in terms of mission, policy and precedent. They can separate a cadet fairly expeditiously, but they don’t rush the decision, to ensure the cadet’s case is given proper consideration by the chain of command and other relevant authorities.
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But I made it back.Oof @Capt MJ got sucked into the matrix
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See?? You DO have superpowers
!!!!!
Herman_Snerd
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I appreciate the engagement of several members in addressing the ongoing concerns voiced by Merman.
As a parent of young adults, I’ve come to realize that our children’s struggles continue to affect us deeply, even as they grow. I've noticed a significant amount of angst and frustration expressed in recent posts, particularly in the posts from @mermar73 . Those posts present as raw, very emotional, with dissonance out the wazoo (it's a clinical assessment).
One suggestion I have here is to, and it's really hard sometimes, but "let it go" - allow these young adults to navigate their own journeys. It’s important for them to experience life’s challenges, including the difficult lessons that come with them. We all face successes and setbacks that contribute to our growth. It's clear you aren't happy with a gap in communication, but here months later - probably time to redirect those hard feelings into helping your son on the next rebuilding steps of his journey - use that energy for something good. Festering about how you the parent(s) felt during this let-down? What will that solve?
If the pressure remains high—akin to pressing Chianti grapes or a popcorn kernel—it may not benefit your child. Instead, consider being a supportive presence. Acknowledge the challenges while shifting the focus toward their future options. Whether that means reapplying to the USMA, exploring alternative service academies, or considering ROTC or OCS routes, the goal should be to help them identify pathways forward.
Redirecting your energy towards constructive solutions can make a significant difference.
Wishing you all the best in this journey- stay focused to help that young man rebuild and move forward.
As a parent of young adults, I’ve come to realize that our children’s struggles continue to affect us deeply, even as they grow. I've noticed a significant amount of angst and frustration expressed in recent posts, particularly in the posts from @mermar73 . Those posts present as raw, very emotional, with dissonance out the wazoo (it's a clinical assessment).
One suggestion I have here is to, and it's really hard sometimes, but "let it go" - allow these young adults to navigate their own journeys. It’s important for them to experience life’s challenges, including the difficult lessons that come with them. We all face successes and setbacks that contribute to our growth. It's clear you aren't happy with a gap in communication, but here months later - probably time to redirect those hard feelings into helping your son on the next rebuilding steps of his journey - use that energy for something good. Festering about how you the parent(s) felt during this let-down? What will that solve?
If the pressure remains high—akin to pressing Chianti grapes or a popcorn kernel—it may not benefit your child. Instead, consider being a supportive presence. Acknowledge the challenges while shifting the focus toward their future options. Whether that means reapplying to the USMA, exploring alternative service academies, or considering ROTC or OCS routes, the goal should be to help them identify pathways forward.
Redirecting your energy towards constructive solutions can make a significant difference.
Wishing you all the best in this journey- stay focused to help that young man rebuild and move forward.