Doolieplebe
Member
- Joined
- Feb 22, 2018
- Messages
- 75
So... there’s still quite a few CPR’s on the left coast tonite, as of 4/6. Does that mean that we are just SOL, soldiergriz, or are you just guesstimating that the fat lady has sung?
TWE today, but I want to show my stats so that others have a reference.
1. 10% Class rank (independent school)
2. Math-750/Verbal-720
3. CFA: 7min 2 sec-run/ dead on average for 2 events/maxed pull-ups/ nearly maxed sit-ups and push-ups
4. All-State swimmer Senior year/ Letter x3/Coaches Award
5. Eagle Scout
6. Violin school champion-Senior year
7. Top honors Junior year- Mandarin
8. Went to China for academic year 2017-18 taking the equivalent of 30 semester hours Mandarin/ Currently with intermediate proficiency.
9. White male.
Wow. You were qualified. Tough break, as I'm sure there were many less qualified (BUT QUALIFIED) that will be admitted. Geography, race, sex, athletics, and more play a part. I don't blame you for being disappointed. Looks like they let a good one get away.
I am also wondering the same about why some kids get in and some don't. I know kids who have prepared for years (held leadership roles, captain of athletic teams, excellent ACT scores and grades, took challenging classes, etc.), visited USNA, went to CVW and summer seminar and did not get in or are still waiting to hear. In their essays, some of these kids included things similar to what your son included and discussed their goals in serving for years beyond their required service. Yet, I know some kids who had never entertained the thought of applying or even had a desire to visit, but they are there because they were recruited athletes and have no interest beyond receiving a free education and doing their required service. Also, there are other kids who at the last minute applied because a friend did, got an appointment, and went sight unseen with the thought of "trying it out". I am sure all of these kids had qualities USNA was looking for and are excellent midshipmen, but my heart goes out to all of the kids who have worked so hard for years and did not get an appointment. It is often difficult to understand why things don't work out in our favor, but it is important to remember everything happens for a reason. For some, maybe overcoming this obstacle will give those even more strength to overcome a much larger obstacle in the future. Maybe this path ending will open a much more rewarding path. For others, maybe not getting an appointment this year will make them even more determined to get an appointment next year and they will work harder than they ever thought they could. For all of the kids who prepared for years and received appointments, for those who did not get an appointment, and for those still waiting- your parents are proud of you- proud of your ability to make good decisions to stay on a focused path to achieve your goal and proud of your hard work and the work ethic you have developed. I will continue to think positive thoughts for all!I'm reading this forum and again I'm not sure why some kids get in and some don't. My thoughts are with those whose children really wanted it but didn't get it. My DS did get an appointment at USNA. For some background info that might help others, we go to an incredibly competitive high school in the northeast where most kids go to great schools, he has taken the hardest classes he could and has done well and did well on his SATs and SAT 2s in Math 2 & Physics. But I can't even say that got him in bc I know a boy two years ahead of him who didn't get in and his best friend who is also just as academically qualified is still waiting. When I re read his essay to USNA he talked about how, after he thought starting a men's volleyball program at his high school was the hardest thing he did, he realized the really challenge was creating a team and commanding respect (he was a junior and the only one who knew the game well after working w the girls team for years) from upperclassmen, teaching kids the game and keeping them positive despite a 0-17 season. I think it was that essay that did it. When your kid writes about themselves they need to cull from experiences that are relatable and that will serve them well at the academy. Just a thought. Good luck to all in the future and keeping my fingers crossed for those still waiting.
The link exposes one of the tough aspects of military academy admissions. Trying to balance the influence of alumni (some of whom are very prominent in business and/or politics), with trying to have an officer corps that reflects society.I think young adults can only do their best to “expect the best and prepare for the worst”, hence plan b is a must. Let the chips fall, because you have zero control on who you are competing with on the slate, in your district/state.
This is from an alumnus a couple years ago. His son was obviously very qualified, but he did not get in. Legacy is not the answer for USNA.
https://www.serviceacademyforums.com/index.php?threads/the-end-of-the-line.48184/page-2#post-478896
10-4 thanks@Tigertown1981 all of my friends from SS got their TWE through email
My DS stat is very similar to yours except few minors items/details.TWE today, but I want to show my stats so that others have a reference.
1. 10% Class rank (independent school)
2. Math-750/Verbal-720
3. CFA: 7min 2 sec-run/ dead on average for 2 events/maxed pull-ups/ nearly maxed sit-ups and push-ups
4. All-State swimmer Senior year/ Letter x3/Coaches Award
5. Eagle Scout
6. Violin school champion-Senior year
7. Top honors Junior year- Mandarin
8. Went to China for academic year 2017-18 taking the equivalent of 30 semester hours Mandarin/ Currently with intermediate proficiency.
9. White male.
So... there’s still quite a few CPR’s on the left coast tonite, as of 4/6. Does that mean that we are just SOL, soldiergriz, or are you just guesstimating that the fat lady has sung?
Though this thread is for applicants that have been accepted. I would like to say that I have been denied from USNA. I’m from Fl-08. I will reapply to USNA for class of 2023 and apply this time for a NROTC scholarship. Good luck to everyone else and don’t lose hope!
Congrats on USAFA. So r u saying that USAFA addmissions process is better than USNA? Or everyone who got accepted at any place just had a better luck during the review process?I am also wondering the same about why some kids get in and some don't. I know kids who have prepared for years (held leadership roles, captain of athletic teams, excellent ACT scores and grades, took challenging classes, etc.), visited USNA, went to CVW and summer seminar and did not get in or are still waiting to hear. In their essays, some of these kids included things similar to what your son included and discussed their goals in serving for years beyond their required service. Yet, I know some kids who had never entertained the thought of applying or even had a desire to visit, but they are there because they were recruited athletes and have no interest beyond receiving a free education and doing their required service. Also, there are other kids who at the last minute applied because a friend did, got an appointment, and went sight unseen with the thought of "trying it out". I am sure all of these kids had qualities USNA was looking for and are excellent midshipmen, but my heart goes out to all of the kids who have worked so hard for years and did not get an appointment. It is often difficult to understand why things don't work out in our favor, but it is important to remember everything happens for a reason. For some, maybe overcoming this obstacle will give those even more strength to overcome a much larger obstacle in the future. Maybe this path ending will open a much more rewarding path. For others, maybe not getting an appointment this year will make them even more determined to get an appointment next year and they will work harder than they ever thought they could. For all of the kids who prepared for years and received appointments, for those who did not get an appointment, and for those still waiting- your parents are proud of you- proud of your ability to make good decisions to stay on a focused path to achieve your goal and proud of your hard work and the work ethic you have developed. I will continue to think positive thoughts for all!I'm reading this forum and again I'm not sure why some kids get in and some don't. My thoughts are with those whose children really wanted it but didn't get it. My DS did get an appointment at USNA. For some background info that might help others, we go to an incredibly competitive high school in the northeast where most kids go to great schools, he has taken the hardest classes he could and has done well and did well on his SATs and SAT 2s in Math 2 & Physics. But I can't even say that got him in bc I know a boy two years ahead of him who didn't get in and his best friend who is also just as academically qualified is still waiting. When I re read his essay to USNA he talked about how, after he thought starting a men's volleyball program at his high school was the hardest thing he did, he realized the really challenge was creating a team and commanding respect (he was a junior and the only one who knew the game well after working w the girls team for years) from upperclassmen, teaching kids the game and keeping them positive despite a 0-17 season. I think it was that essay that did it. When your kid writes about themselves they need to cull from experiences that are relatable and that will serve them well at the academy. Just a thought. Good luck to all in the future and keeping my fingers crossed for those still waiting.
DS went from CPR to "Turned Down for USNA" status yesterday. That wording seems unique based on what I have read here - not sure what that means other than that's what his admissions officer chose to type into his status field. Fortunately he has an appointment to USAFA and NROTC-MO for VMI - but USNA was his first choice. As parents, we're counting our blessings and thrilled that he has these other two options available. He's still processing the news, of course. His goal is to fly, be an engineer and, frankly, become an astronaut... so those options are clearly still on the table.
I want to respond to the "what are they looking for" and "why does one get selected vs another" questions. I work as a volunteer in the post-grad center at a large, top 5 public high school in my state. The school has an extensive IB and AP program and is loaded with over-achieving students. Each year we find ourselves counseling both students and parents (usually of an oldest child, so they are going through the college application process for the first time) who are asking the same questions once they receive a rejection, deferral or wait list notification from their preferred school. It's even harder to explain when one student that you were sure had no chance to get into a selective school is admitted and another that you thought was a slam-dunk is rejected. I've spent many, many hours over the last four years listening to 100's of college rep presentations and speaking with reps one-on-one as part of my volunteer role. We always try to get an insight into what it takes to be admitted to a given school so that we can help our students achieve their own goals. I now have had 2 young adults of my own go through the college application process. DD went to Northwestern and graduated a year ago in 3 years. The military was never her thing. But after her experience (top of her class, 35 ACT, IB diploma, etc. etc.) I too went through the "if not my kid... then who DID get in?!" for schools like Stanford, Harvard, etc. (she did get into NYU, Duke, and several other "selective" schools). That's when my personal journey to understand the college admissions process began. And I have watched, from the sidelines for the past three years, before personally experiencing the agony first-hand again this year, the same script play out over and over.
Here's the summary statement: College admissions are a crap shoot. Pure and simple.
This isn't sour grapes - this is based on five years of parent research and observation as well as many many conversations with college reps. I naively thought that the SA process would not be the same story, but based on reading so many posts on this forum and DS's experience, I now know better. Once you meet the baseline qualifications for any institution, your future is in the hands of one or a very few humans who have job goals and requirements as well as private lives outside of their college/SA. In the case of an SA, the baseline conditions are 3Q'd, CPR with a nomination. After that...? It literally comes down to the opinion of, often, a very few people who are looking for one or two specific things on that specific day/date. If your application happens to find the right Admissions staff member(s) on the right day and the right hour - you win!
My conversations with college reps have gleaned the fact that most applications are now read only once or twice due to the sheer volume of submissions. If the person reading your application/essays had a late night, a fight with their spouse, maybe has someone they care for in the hospital, or just is having a bad day, that will impact their reading. And that will impact your chances of acceptance. As one rep said to me recently - "we're humans with lives, too." If the school needs a viola player for the orchestra, reps will be told to keep an eye out for one. Once they find one, even if the next application which is read a month later is an equally qualified applicant and an even better viola player, that extra skill that had a benefit last month will no longer be an advantage. It can even be as crazy as if an essay touches on a subject that the rep doesn't like. Regardless of the quality of the writing, that application may be less favorably rated. It's just human nature. I could go on and on... Based on DS's experience, I now know that many of the same rules (or lack thereof) apply in the SA admissions world. If anyone out there has a different experience, feel free to share.
Once you reach the 3Q CPR with a nom status, all bets are off. Some of the decisions will make perfect sense, but generally speaking, there won't be a lot of logic to the results for many of the applicants. Adding the legal requirements (geography, etc.) to the SA process makes it even more confusing. It's a crap shoot.
Congrats to everyone receiving appointments. Our philosophy with DD was that she would end up where she should be, and that proved to be the case. I'm sure the same will apply to DS. Only time will tell.
Here's the summary statement: College admissions are a crap shoot. Pure and simple.
This isn't sour grapes - this is based on five years of parent research and observation as well as many many conversations with college reps. I naively thought that the SA process would not be the same story, but based on reading so many posts on this forum and DS's experience, I now know better. Once you meet the baseline qualifications for any institution, your future is in the hands of one or a very few humans who have job goals and requirements as well as private lives outside of their college/SA. In the case of an SA, the baseline conditions are 3Q'd, CPR with a nomination. After that...? It literally comes down to the opinion of, often, a very few people who are looking for one or two specific things on that specific day/date. If your application happens to find the right Admissions staff member(s) on the right day and the right hour - you win!
Here's the summary statement: College admissions are a crap shoot. Pure and simple.
This isn't sour grapes - this is based on five years of parent research and observation as well as many many conversations with college reps. I naively thought that the SA process would not be the same story, but based on reading so many posts on this forum and DS's experience, I now know better. Once you meet the baseline qualifications for any institution, your future is in the hands of one or a very few humans who have job goals and requirements as well as private lives outside of their college/SA. In the case of an SA, the baseline conditions are 3Q'd, CPR with a nomination. After that...? It literally comes down to the opinion of, often, a very few people who are looking for one or two specific things on that specific day/date. If your application happens to find the right Admissions staff member(s) on the right day and the right hour - you win!
Yes, and No ....first, I always try to caution parents to think of this process as completely different than an "normal" college application. The Service Academies have statutory requirements that can't be waived. For instance, USNA needs to meet the geographic constraints as created by the nomination system. For the most part, candidates are competing within their State. You are correct that 3Q and nomination (CPR is not a condition, just a holding status) is the baseline condition, but the step from there to Offer of Appointment is not as random as you suggest. Noms and Appointments is pretty good at picking the most qualified candidate among a MOC slate. USNA has decades of experience in evaluating what factors are indicators of success at USNA and as officers in the Navy, and those factors are used to select the winner of the MOC slate. The "crap shoot" component comes when you have a congressional slate with 10 very highly qualified candidate , with qualifications that make them virtually indistinguishable. It may come down to something like who did better on the CFA, which seems kinda random, but it really isn't, that's one of the few objective criterai where you can compare apples and apples.
One of the drawbacks of forums like this is that it creates false expectations or impressions that admission to USNA is too difficult, or even unfair. This arises as people try to analyze every aspect of the process, and often use their own experience as the basis for describing how the system works. One data point doesn't define a policy or create a trend. There are a several here that try to keep things real, correcting misperceptions and errors. I will be the last to argue the system is perfect -- alot of really good candidates get TWE, and I have been disappointed in the past when a candidate that I think is most deserving of appointment is passed over in favor of someone I think is less qualified, but keep in mind, that only the Admissions Office sees the entire package , including personal statements. My advice is as always, focus on those things that you can control, place trust in the system, cross your fingers, and have a strong Plan B, because admission to USNA is competitive and sometimes decided by luck.
> That's where I disagree. The "variables" are fairly well defined. USNA knows what is looking for, and much of the Admission criteria actually gets quantified in the whole person multiple algorithm. However, the big variable is who you are competing against.. Assuming all other criteria are equal, a 700/700 SAT may be sufficient in one year, but not the year that someone else comes in with a 750/750.I'm saying that you never know what variables are in play at the moment your package is evaluated - and frankly, the variables can change day-to-day.
> I would caution against lumping the Service Academies in with other "selective schools". I have no idea how other schools do their admissions, but would strongly suspect that their admissions criteria are not as well defined, and certainly don't have a process where the Admissions has a two step "Qualified" and "Appointment" process. A regular college is trying to determine whom among thousands of applicants to admit, but most USNA Admissions are coming from a MOC nomination, so Admissions only has to chose whom among 10 people in a slate to appoint.My comment, however, is based on analyzing the results of more than a thousand high school seniors from our school over the last four years and their applications, acceptances, wait lists, deferrals, etc. There often is no rhyme or reason to the outcome, particularly for the selective schools like the SAs.