Returning from Philmont the Monday before I-Day?

Dr. Strange Love said:
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From the Yukon river head waters just inside BC, all the way to the Bering sea, is just shy of 2000 miles. Here are some points along the journey:

  • 97 miles Lake Bennett to Whitehorse, Yukon Territories
  • 420 miles Whitehorse to Dawson City, Yukon Territories
  • 318 miles Dawson City to Fort Yukon, Alaska
  • 300 miles Fort Yukon to Tananna, Alaska
  • 330 miles Tananna to Nulato, Alaska
  • 280 miles Nulato to Russian Mission, Alaska
  • 205 miles Russian Mission to Emmonak, Alaska
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I was so amazed she did it alone. The pictures and her recounting it to me were beautiful.
 
Regret having gone to a second jamboree instead of Philmont in the 70s. Particularly since the 1977 jamboree location was the same as the prior one and the weather was horrible. It was like some Civil War camp re-enactment where there was water and mud everywhere.
 
It's a risk for several reasons - potential injury and body condition. I've done Philmont twice and returned needing 5 days of recovery at least. Your feet will be worn and blister laden plus you'll be dehydrated and in need of calories. On one hand it's a great opportunity but on the other it's a huge risk of not just missing IDoc but also not being in condition when you report. I'd not recommend it.
 
@Temple17 i hope you are enjoying the advice rolling in for your little brother.

My focus is on the operational risk analysis. I actually have no problem with him going to Philmont for a memorable life experience - but I would want him to at least think through the operational risk analysis, assess all the elements and sketch out a rudimentary plan for the worst case scenario. He should be 100% clear and okay with what he would have to do post-Philmont should an injury preclude him from reporting in. Also assess the interim situation of no injury/will I be in best shape for I-Day, and the no-go decision.

For the worst case, it could be as simple as making a To Do list ready to execute if needed. Even though USNA usually issues an LOA to someone who is injured or ill right before I-Day, certain steps must still be followed. The rudimentary To Do list could include:

- Prepare for and accept being a re-applicant.
- Open application, gather same materials.
- Prepare for another round of seeking nominations from elected officials, identify next cycle due dates.
- DoDMERB is good for 2 years but history must be updated and evaluated for continued physical qualification.
- CFA again, may need special planning if injury has a long-term impact.
- College plan: What colleges are still open for admissions (there is an easily-found website)? Do I need to stay local for physical therapy purposes? Financial impact? Does the local community college have appropriate plebe-like classes, hoping I have an LOA already?
- New essays: Should get great material from Philmont and how I have dealt with physical setback, what I have learned.
- And so on.

Going through this exercise from tooth to tail will clarify the risks and actions required if the worst case happened, so he can fully embrace his decision and know he has visualized the consequences no matter which choice he makes. It may even stave off Murphy’s Law kicking in!
 
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Capt MJ said:
@Temple17 i hope you are enjoying the advice rolling in fyour little brother.

My focus is on the operational risk analysis. I actually have no problem with him going to Philmont for a memorable life experience - but I would want him to at least think through the operational risk analysis, assess all the elements and sketch out a rudimentary plan for the worst case scenario. He should be 100% clear and okay with what he would have to do post-Philmont should an injury preclude him from reporting in.

It could be as simple as making a To Do list ready to execute if needed. Even though USNA usually issues an LOA to someone who is injured or ill right before I-Day, certain steps must still be followed. The rudimentary To Do list could look include:

- Prepare for and accept being a re-applicant.
- Open application, gather same materials.
- Prepare for another round of seeking nominations from elected officials, identify next cycle due dates.
- DoDMERB is good for 2 years but history must be updated and evaluated for continued physical qualification.
- CFA again, may need special planning if injury has a long-term impact.
- College plan: What colleges are still open for admissions (there is an easily-found website)? Do I need to stay local for physical therapy purposes? Financial impact? Does the local community college have appropriate plebe-like classes, hoping I have an LOA already?
- New essays: Should get great material from Philmont and how I have dealt with physical setback, what I have learned.

Going through this exercise from tooth to tail will clarify the risks and actions required if the worst case happened, so he can fully embrace his decision and know he has visualized the consequences no matter which choice he makes. It may even stave off Murphy’s Law kicking in!
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Excellent! A check list is a recognized risk tool! Go Navy!
 
To add to the varied responses already provided, I say tell little broski to go! I agree with the ‘calculated risk’ side of things, and this is low risk for a fit, young person. Know what other injuries have kept people from I-Day? Breaking a bone from jumping on a trampoline at a HS graduation party. Someone pushing a candidate into a pool at a pool party and striking their head. Slipping on the deck of a cruise ship, causing a back injury during the HS graduation celebration family trip. Heck, didn’t someone famously break their toe getting off the bus at AFA on I-Day? (Or is that urban legend? :p) It’s not realistic for a recently graduated senior to just stay inside for the few weeks between graduation and I-Day. They’re going to be out and about, going to parties, etc. Anything could happen anywhere. Tell him he should go!

Just going to add, because someone mentioned it, Sea Base is beyond words amazing!
 
At the risk of turning this thread into a “why go to Philmont thread” let me add a couple of things when weighing risk-benefit. The trails (with a couple of notable exceptions - one being the south climb up to Tooth of Time Ridge) are superhighways for the feet. It’s almost ridiculous how well-maintained, free of rocks, and soft they are. I’ve literally hiked thousands of miles and I have never been on such uniformly good and well-designed trails. If you eschew “blister buckets” (boots) and get a nice, light pair of trail runners you will be virtually blister free and have minimal sore feet.
 
Agree with @ders_dad
I wore Merrell Moab 2 Ventilator hiking shoes, as did my DW in 2016 They were fabulous, and we still have them.
 
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Can I hike in my Danner Romeo slip-ons?
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parentalunit2 said:
To add to the varied responses already provided, I say tell little broski to go! I agree with the ‘calculated risk’ side of things, and this is low risk for a fit, young person. Know what other injuries have kept people from I-Day? Breaking a bone from jumping on a trampoline at a HS graduation party. Someone pushing a candidate into a pool at a pool party and striking their head. Slipping on the deck of a cruise ship, causing a back injury during the HS graduation celebration family trip. Heck, didn’t someone famously break their toe getting off the bus at AFA on I-Day? (Or is that urban legend? :p) It’s not realistic for a recently graduated senior to just stay inside for the few weeks between graduation and I-Day. They’re going to be out and about, going to parties, etc. Anything could happen anywhere. Tell him he should go!

Just going to add, because someone mentioned it, Sea Base is beyond words amazing!
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DS's class had someone fall and break their arm in their driveway just before I-Day. So not quite the legend, but pretty close.

My 2 sons did Philmont, Northern Tier and Sea Base (and our mid was back to Northern Tier last summer to lead; suck it, pandemic! LOL). All 3 are amazing in their own way, but to be fair, Sea Base is not the physical adventure of the others (even routinely referred to as "Sleep Base"). What bemuses me is that mids can lead Philmont and Northern Tier treks for summer trainings, but our *sailors* have no involvement with Sea Base? I kind of assumed that was because there is no much less to do at Sea Base. despite the sailing seeming really on point.
 
Okay, so my DS went to Philmont for 3 summers in a row (Troop trek, Rayado and ROCS), and so I pinged his opinion. He says he definitely go, unless there was reason to be concerned about struggling physically. "It's not that big of a deal tbh. If you're above average baseline fitness, it shouldn't much matter. Philmont will keep you in shape. Just do lots of pushups out there." FWIW
 
I would say you should focus on making sure bro is educated. He will be nervous and anxious to get going with I Day, there will be lots to do, people to see, last minute things to accomplish. The train arrives quickly. There is also the real, albeit small, risk of injury and the impact it could have on his acceptance.
If he has a firm grasp on this stuff, understands the risks, and still really wants to go - I would tell him to go for it! It would be an awesome trip.
 
Thank you to everyone who has contributed to this forum. It was nice hearing the thoughts of others. Sorry, for my belated response, I went on E-Leave for a few days so I was away from my computer.

I'm not sure what my brother and father will decide, but they have read everyone's thoughts.
 
I should add that my wife and I both trained for eight (8) months prior to those eight (8) days at Philmont. Training made all the difference between adventure and ordeal. We had a great time, but we had worked up to hiking 20 miles a day by the time we left. At Philmont our longest day was 14 miles. It really was easy, most of the time.

No injuries. No blisters. No bears. We were being tracked/shadowed by a Mountain Lion one day (which was pretty cool), and we came across a 6-foot diamondback rattlesnake on another occasion. The views and experience were first rate. Only Scouts and military typically get to go there, so it really is pretty darned pristine and unspoiled compared to many regular National Parks.
 
THParent said:
Training made all the difference between adventure and ordeal.
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> That there is the key, but also add that there is a big difference between going at 55 and 16-18. I don't recall any specific training regime when I went as a Scout, and don't recall any particularly tough days (except the Baldy climb -- we went down the back side and had to hike around the base back to camp, so it was a long day). I'm sure I did some time with the backpack leading in, but was a lot leaner and in shape back then.

Interesting comment on the mountain lion -- I don't recall them even being a concern back then. I'm curious now...do Scouts carry bear spray now at Philmont ?
 
Old Navy BGO said:
> That there is the key, but also add that there is a big difference between going at 55 and 16-18. I don't recall any specific training regime when I went as a Scout, and don't recall any particularly tough days (except the Baldy climb -- we went down the back side and had to hike around the base back to camp, so it was a long day). I'm sure I did some time with the backpack leading in, but was a lot leaner and in shape back then.

Interesting comment on the mountain lion -- I don't recall them even being a concern back then. I'm curious now...do Scouts carry bear spray now at Philmont ?
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Scouts and Adult Participants are not allowed to carry Bear Spray while at Philmont today.
 
Yeah, no guns or bear spray. No "smellables" (soap, deodorant, etc.) either.
Even chap stick had to be unscented.

If you had ever put anything other than water in any of your bottles or bags (Gatorade powder, et al), they too had to go into the bear bags with food and "smellables" we hauled up 30'-0" above ground every night.
 
THParent said:
Yeah, no guns or bear spray. No "smellables" (soap, deodorant, etc.) either.
Even chap stick had to be unscented.

If you had ever put anything other than water in any of your bottles or bags (Gatorade powder, et al), they too had to go into the bear bags with food and "smellables" we hauled up 30'-0" above ground every night.
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I kind of figured that a gun was off limits, but thought bear spray might be standard issue. I was in Yellowstone a few years ago, and some Scouts with bear spray. We didn't have anything back in the day ... I do remember the bear bag, and all sorts of stories about Kamikaze bears that would do anything to to get them. I also recall meeting someone on the trail -- I think he was on a Ranger training or Rayado trek, that got attacked by a bear in his tent a few days before because he inadvertently left gum or chapstick in a pocket.
 
We had a bear encounter at Philmont as a kid. We hung our smellables up in the bear bag and had just gone to bed. My friend had his tent flap open (no mosquitos so we could do that, which was an unbelievable luxury). A bear reached between the flaps, grabbed his brand new Kelty pack and started to drag if off. We all started yelling. The bear dropped his pack and took off. We all went back into our tents after putting all the packs up off the ground on the boughs of a fir tree. We had just started to doze off when we heard our Scoutmaster calmly say, "The bear's back". We watched the bear reach up and swat my friend's pack. My friend grabbed a big rock, ran right at the bear, and hit it on the head. The bear dropped his pack and ran off again. It looked to not be quite full-grown. That's when we discovered he had left a Swiss Miss packet in one of the pockets. They say Philmont has more bears per square mile than any other place in the Rockies - but all black bear. They have remarkably few incidences. And with 22,000 Scouts and adult advisors parading through there each summer, it is remarkable how pristine it is. I think it is a fantastic leadership laboratory. Nothing like being the navigator for your crew and have to explain you took the wrong turn three miles back and now everyone has to back-track.
 
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