Room for more?

Hi, still a newbie to the forums but I've been reading through a ton of them and found amazing info & inspiring outcomes. Few questions regarding noms: 1) if there is an athlete in our district that has made a "verbal commitment" to a SA, does that mean he will be princ nom for that MOC? Worried for DS if his first choice SA is already interested in someone in the area. 2) I keep reading about princ noms and submitting 10 names- are you allowed to ask your MOC how he/she submits? Or is this considered a no-no?

Last question, but not regarding nominations- so apologies if I need to ask in a separate thread: with each SA there is an area contact for DS, can DS speak openly with these contacts, or could this contact report back that DS " is asking silly questions" and "should know stuff like this". Ty in advance for help and guidance! In reading a lot of these threads, it looks like we might have quite the roller coaster ride ahead of us:)
 

5Day

Member
Just because an athlete has made a "verbal commitment" he is not guaranteed a nomination, let alone a principal nomination. That is up to the MOC. In fact it would make more sense for the MOC to not designate the athlete a principal nominee. This would allow more of their constituents an appointment to the SA.

You may ask what type of slate the MOC submits and most will answer, but they are not required. It is not a no-no.

The SA contacts are usually part of the decision making process. Asking questions and looking for information is fine and should be encouraged, but they are part of the process so the contact should be approached with due respect.
 

USMA 1994

Member
Since you are new the first thing to keep in mind here is that no one can tell you exactly how it will be for your DS in applying but you can get some very helpful advice about the typical process.

In terms of recruited athletes, there are many other post with greater detail but basically the recruitment of athletes and the MOC nomination process are independent of each other. Each academy and sport have a few appointments they can give to candidates. You may hear like Blue Chips or presidential or something else similar but these are a very small number and based on the sport, football has more than say women's tennis. Most of the "recruits" compete for the same nominations as all other candidates. Each MOC has its own criteria on how they do nominations and rank candidates. In this case, it would just depend on how much weight the MOC puts on athletic performance. I do not see an issue asking the MOC's office how they do their nominations.

The representatives that interact with the candidates are part of the admission teams. They are the admissions eyes and ears and are asked to do face to face interviews. Your DS should have a healthy relationship with his contact but also understand that this person is evaluating them. It should be similar to a student / teacher relationship. They should seek out the information and only ask questions that they cannot find elsewhere. The field force volunteers cannot get your DS into the academy but they can sure keep them out.
 

USMA 1994

Member
The best advice you can get is to not worry about things that are outside your control. Have your DS to start the process and keep striving for excellence. There is no way to know who they will be competing against and how the MOCs may see the candidates in any given year. As long as he is doing his best, things will work out. Never give up hope but always have a Plan B & C.
 

brovol

Member
The athlete's commitment may or may not effect your candidates chances. If a highly recruited athlete, then little doubt the coach can push some buttons for admission if the player is otherwise qualified. That may use up a spot in your district, or the athlete may get some other nomination, leaving your congressional representative nomination slot still in play. Keep in mind that there are at least three nomination sources that all candidates have; the congressman in the district, and two state senators. Sometimes athletes can get a superintendent nom, if no other nomination becomes available. Only a small percentage of MOC's use principal nominations. Most are competitive, non-ranked. You can contact each of your MOC's and ask what they do. Either way though, if your candidate has a very competitive application, just keep pushing forward.

You didn't say what academy your candidate is applying to. My son applied to USMA, USNA and USAFA, and for each the liason officer situation was similar but different. Lol. Mostly though I think the distinctions were with the individual officer rather than how the schools use the officers. Basically though, they are there primarily to inform the candidates and families, and don't really have an effect on the chance of admission. They are available, at least in theory, to answer any and all questions during the process, once you are officially a candidate at that school. Some are better though at responding to questions. We found that if you want a very accurate answer to an important question it is best to call admissions directly. Some do, however, have a little influence with nominations pannels.
 

mpete2150

Member
Hi, still a newbie to the forums but I've been reading through a ton of them and found amazing info & inspiring outcomes. Few questions regarding noms: 1) if there is an athlete in our district that has made a "verbal commitment" to a SA, does that mean he will be princ nom for that MOC? Worried for DS if his first choice SA is already interested in someone in the area. 2) I keep reading about princ noms and submitting 10 names- are you allowed to ask your MOC how he/she submits? Or is this considered a no-no?

Last question, but not regarding nominations- so apologies if I need to ask in a separate thread: with each SA there is an area contact for DS, can DS speak openly with these contacts, or could this contact report back that DS " is asking silly questions" and "should know stuff like this". Ty in advance for help and guidance! In reading a lot of these threads, it looks like we might have quite the roller coaster ride ahead of us:)
Yes, this is a weird ride you've gotten yourself on. Our DD's school was no help so this forum is a Godsend. Now, by "area contact" did you mean the Regional Admissions staff contact or the officer (Navy is Blue and Gold, sorry not sure what the others are called) who will interview them? They're both helpful but would be approached about different questions, probably.
 

time2

10-Year Member
While it doesn't hurt to ask your MOC about those things, their answers really make no difference in the bigger scheme of things. You have no way of knowing the competition in the upcoming cycle and sometimes people might brag about being 'recruited' when in reality it doesn't mean nearly as much as at a civilian college. No one pays tuition at any SA, so the main draw of getting free room/board isn't there. During the MOC interviews, you son would answer the questions the same way regardless of any of those other things.

Contacting reps like the BGO for USNA isn't a bad thing, but it is helpful if you (or your son) also takes the initiative to read the official websites for any of the SA's he is interested in. REALLY basic questions like 'how do I apply?'.....etc. are clearly described on those sites. Asking your area contact to the answer obvious questions shown on their website would tend to show a lack of initiative.

Also good to look at replies on this website from prior years as the same questions get asked/answered a number of times.
 

Enthalpy

2021 USMA Dad
Serviceaboveall,
This article is about 15 from one district. So your DS chances are still good.

http://www.capitalgazette.com/news/naval_academy/ph-ac-cn-usna-2016-local-graduates-0505-20160508-story.html

As USMA said,
"The best advice you can get is to not worry about things that are outside your control. Have your DS to start the process and keep striving for excellence. There is no way to know who they will be competing against and how the MOCs may see the candidates in any given year. As long as he is doing his best, things will work out. Never give up hope but always have a Plan B & C."

I know for me, my DD having a solid plan B helped with my stress.
Good luck to you and your DS
 
Hi, still a newbie to the forums but I've been reading through a ton of them and found amazing info & inspiring outcomes. Few questions regarding noms: 1) if there is an athlete in our district that has made a "verbal commitment" to a SA, does that mean he will be princ nom for that MOC? Worried for DS if his first choice SA is already interested in someone in the area. 2) I keep reading about princ noms and submitting 10 names- are you allowed to ask your MOC how he/she submits? Or is this considered a no-no?

Last question, but not regarding nominations- so apologies if I need to ask in a separate thread: with each SA there is an area contact for DS, can DS speak openly with these contacts, or could this contact report back that DS " is asking silly questions" and "should know stuff like this". Ty in advance for help and guidance! In reading a lot of these threads, it looks like we might have quite the roller coaster ride ahead of us:)
Our congressman nominated 10 kids to USNA and from what I know 4 kids are Plebes now (could be more?). Yes 1 of the 4 is a very smart athlete. My point: don't get too wrapped up in #, if A Service Academy wants you they will have you:)
 

USMA 1994

Member
You didn't say what academy your candidate is applying to. My son applied to USMA, USNA and USAFA, and for each the liaison officer situation was similar but different. Lol. Mostly though I think the distinctions were with the individual officer rather than how the schools use the officers. Basically though, they are there primarily to inform the candidates and families, and don't really have an effect on the chance of admission. They are available, at least in theory, to answer any and all questions during the process, once you are officially a candidate at that school. Some are better though at responding to questions. We found that if you want a very accurate answer to an important question it is best to call admissions directly. Some do, however, have a little influence with nominations panels.
I would be very careful with type of advise as it is not completely accurate. The Field Force, BGO, ALOs all work as part of the admission's team and can have a significant impact on your chance for admission. During the process, they will have individual interviews to ensure the candidates really want to attend the academy, understand the commitments associated with attending and ensuring the person is a good fit. They do this as a one on one with the candidate to get a true feel and also note observations during other interactions. These are the only times in the process that an individual gets to make a first person observation. There are a few floating around the forum and they would all tell you that the interview cannot assure you an appointment, but negative feedback from them in their role would most likely stop any offer later in the process. With that said, most of them are academy graduates who volunteer to support the academy and help young men and women achieve there goals. They are great men and women and just need to be shown common courtesy and that the candidates are taking the individual initiative to complete the process.
 

3cmkids

Member
Our FFR was not really available. My DS did speak with him at a congressional information meeting and then a month or so later had a question for him and he never responded. Once we did our visit to WP, we found out that he was no longer a FFR. He was a dad of a past graduate. Very nice but never responded that he was no longer a FFR.
 

brovol

Member
I would be very careful with type of advise as it is not completely accurate. The Field Force, BGO, ALOs all work as part of the admission's team and can have a significant impact on your chance for admission. During the process, they will have individual interviews to ensure the candidates really want to attend the academy, understand the commitments associated with attending and ensuring the person is a good fit. They do this as a one on one with the candidate to get a true feel and also note observations during other interactions. These are the only times in the process that an individual gets to make a first person observation. There are a few floating around the forum and they would all tell you that the interview cannot assure you an appointment, but negative feedback from them in their role would most likely stop any offer later in the process. With that said, most of them are academy graduates who volunteer to support the academy and help young men and women achieve there goals. They are great men and women and just need to be shown common courtesy and that the candidates are taking the individual initiative to complete the process.
I don't think anything I said suggested that they are less than great, nor were my comments less than respectful. My son was interviewed by a FFR, an ALO, and a BGO. My wife and I were included in a part of the interviews with the FFR and the BGO. Both told us exactly what I stated in my post. Both provided a lot of information, and did a great job, after spending a lot of their time with my son. Those officers provide tremendous value to the process, but we were told that they will never be why someone gets an appointment, but could be why someone doesn't. I am certainly not in a position to debate the issue, but I would question the number of situations when a candidate who otherwise would not have recieved an appointment, did receive one because he or she did so well on the FFR interview, or based on the FFR report. To my knowledge the FFR report is not included at all in the WCS. Is that inaccurate? My sons ALO interview for USAFA was very late in the process, was very informal, and took 15 minutes. He said the officer introduced themselves, and then the guy told my son he looks to be in great shape based on what he saw on his application.

The BGO was very quick to respond to my sons email questions, but repeatedly advised that he really had no access to information needed to answer. The FFR just didn't respond to emails. respectfully, I don't think they are as influential in the process as is being suggested.
 
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USMA 1994

Member
@brovol. I think we are saying the exact same thing. Their input cannot make up for other shortcomings in an application but they can put up a red flag that would stop it. I do not think it has a WCS component but it is looked at by the committee. Everyone must remember that this is a competition and you should keep in mind that the Field Force is part of the process.
 

brovol

Member
@brovol. I think we are saying the exact same thing. Their input cannot make up for other shortcomings in an application but they can put up a red flag that would stop it. I do not think it has a WCS component but it is looked at by the committee. Everyone must remember that this is a competition and you should keep in mind that the Field Force is part of the process.
Agreed
 
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