Sad day for America today: Attack on our democratic process

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USMCGrunt said:
I can't help but wonder how different this may have been handled if this building (and its occupants) were guarded by Marine Security Forces.

The Capital is not an Embassy. Civilian Police Officers have different missions than Military units. I presume that the rules of engagement are different. Weapons, tactics, and training are similar but ultimately different. "Optics" are different.

But... as a member of the MSG for 3-years, I can tell you we trained for these scenarios routinely. We educated, drilled, inspected and grilled our unit members in the rules of engagement, legal issues, and anticipated scenarios. After Action Reports were conducted and improvements made.

Physical barriers, less-than-lethal options, dogs, multi-levels of security, and strongly understood rules of engagement were all a key part of the mission plan.

I hope that this will be the last time mobs infiltrate the seat of our government. But I pray that those in-charge of security take the time to truly dissect what happened and where improvements can be made.
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This is a parking permit I kept for a souvenir from the Bush-43 address to a joint session of congress. I was with CBIRF and we had a close and personal seat. Biden will be doing his soon and surely the security will be up to the task. I would have liked to have seen the place locked down by Marines yesterday. Marines that are just down the street actually and have a primary mission of defending the capital and not just the capitol. Defend like the Battle of Bladensburg type stuff. I was part of the medical planning for both the inauguration and address to the joint session which included exhaustive meetings and exercises. Being in the middle of all that history and military and law enforcement muscle was cool as heck and a thrill of a lifetime.

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THParent said:
It used to be that we had two parties who basically wanted the same thing for their constituents, but they just had different ways of getting there.
Now we have two parties in which vengeance is the only motivation for anything. I have been ashamed of many of the actions of people in this country for most of 2020 and it continues on into the new year. Call me surprised.

Who is sitting in the office of the POTUS has never made any difference in my life, other than the glorious 80's when I got all kinds of flight time. Thanks for all that JP-4, #40 ;)
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People fail to understand that state governments hold the most power over everything. Yes, the presidency matters and has a lot of influence mostly over foreign affairs and such, but it is not the end of the world if the other party wins. The states will go their own way as all 50 are different. That is what our government is designed to do. If the radicalization continues though, we will be in for a world of hurt.

As for #40, boy do I wish I could have been here for that presidency. Reagan truly loved the country and all Americans. We need another person of his stature soon.
 
gibby42 said:
People fail to understand that state governments hold the most power over everything. Yes, the presidency matters and has a lot of influence mostly over foreign affairs and such, but it is not the end of the world if the other party wins. The states will go their own way as all 50 are different. That is what our government is designed to do. If the radicalization continues though, we will be in for a world of hurt.

As for #40, boy do I wish I could have been here for that presidency. Reagan truly loved the country and all Americans. We need another person of his stature soon.
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There's a new book on Reagan's rise if you're interested in him:
REAGANLAND
America’s Right Turn, 1976-1980
My first vote for President was for him and he had a lot of good qualities. He cut some taxes but also raised some. He also willingly worked across the aisle, including having BBQs with the Dem Speaker of the House Tip O'Neill. But like all politicians, he had negatives. So it might be worth reading up on him.
I also liked Clinton and his economy.
 
unkown1961 said:
I just saw this update from the facial recognition company as respects the Times' story about antifa:

"A facial recognition company says a viral Washington Times story claiming it identified antifa members among the mob that stormed the CAPITOL on Wednesday is completely false. XRVision told BuzzFeed News it has asked the conservative outlet for a retraction and apology over the story"
https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/craigsilverman/facial-recognition-antifa-washington-times-false
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Bad Faith...
 
unkown1961 said:
There's a new book on Reagan's rise if you're interested in him:
REAGANLAND
America’s Right Turn, 1976-1980
My first vote for President was for him and he had a lot of good qualities. He cut some taxes but also raised some. He also willingly worked across the aisle, including having BBQs with the Dem Speaker of the House Tip O'Neill. But like all politicians, he had negatives. So it might be worth reading up on him.
I also liked Clinton and his economy.
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I love reading about this sort of stuff! Thank you for the suggestion, I’ve been needing something to really get into in the midst of online school!
 
lacebolla said:
I've never been a Trump supporter, but no matter what your political views are, we have to agree this is terrorism and a serious and disgusting attack on our country. President Trump needs to step up and go on national television and call this out for the terrorism it is. When BLM protesters protested, they were met with gunshots, tear gas and rubber bullets. However, our police in DC is taking pictures with these "protesters" and doing next to nothing? The Virginia national guard, even, was given the order before the DC national guard.

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This was staged in my opinion. The police escorted them to the capitol and let them through the gates. I am a retired major city cop and have worked major events dozens of times in my career. There is a absolutely no way they kick their feet up on Pelosi's desk in one of the most secure buildings in the world and hang out in the capitol without being arrested. They were told to let them in. Research it. The evidence is there that this is the case.
 
jeffinCharlotte said:
This was staged in my opinion. The police escorted them to the capitol and let them through the gates. I am a retired major city cop and have worked major events dozens of times in my career. There is a absolutely no way they kick their feet up on Pelosi's desk in one of the most secure buildings in the world and hang out in the capitol without being arrested. They were told to let them in. Research it. The evidence is there that this is the case.
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I just saw a video with what appears to be an officer waiving people in.

I also saw a video at the beginning where the supporters were yelling at some guy dressed in black smashing the windows - a group of them stopped him.

It seems prudent to wait for facts and properly punish everyone involved.
 
Yes leaders now a days and media knee jerk before they have all the facts. Some leaders even go out and make speeches to soon before all the facts are in. As a leader with the Charlotte police department for many years I am saying in my humble opinion there is no possible way this could have happened unless top political leadership didn't plan and approve it. Yes I think it was pre-planned. By who? We will probably never know that.
 
lacebolla said:
According to the FBI, the definition of terrorism is "Terrorism is defined in the Code of Federal Regulations as “the unlawful use of force and violence against persons or property to intimidate or coerce a government, the civilian population, or any segment thereof, in furtherance of political or social objectives."

Gunshots were fired. A woman was shot. Violence was used against the police to intimidate our legislature to try to acknowledge voter fraud that there is no solid proof of. Sounds like terrorism to me.
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that definition is so broad that throwing a glass of lemonade at a government official would be considered terrorism. Remember when people used to yell at Republicans at restaurants or when they were chased out, this definition would apply to them also and I can tell you no one was arrested for terrorism.
 
jeffinCharlotte said:
As a leader with the Charlotte police department for many years I am saying in my humble opinion there is no possible way this could have happened unless top political leadership didn't plan and approve it.
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Okay, based on your experience, who would be your top suspects in the planning? What was their motive? How were the plans communicated to the Capital Hill Police Officers manning the doors? Was the outcome what "the top political leadership" suspected?
 
cb7893 said:
Okay, based on your experience, who would be your top suspects in the planning? What was their motive? How were the plans communicated to the Capital Hill Police Officers manning the doors? Was the outcome what "the top political leadership" suspected?
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I cant speculate on the unknown with certainty. When we/my department did any VIP protection for anyone of importance all and every plan(s) that I drafted was approved by the city manager and the mayor and is some cases the Governor. I had the honor to protect Bush Jr on two occasions. If any barricade was breached at any location designated as a no go zone there would have been hell to pay for the person(s). This group of 100 people or so would not have gotten 10 ft past the barricade much less into the Capitol building and taking selfies unless the order was given to stand down. Now the Air Force girl that was shot in the face and neck-I am not sure what happened there. Will wait for the report. Just through my experience all I am willing to say is those officers that opened those gates and stood down knew the plan already.
 
cb7893 said:
Who are they and them? By whom were they told?
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There's a video of Capitol policeman waving people forward, but there are also a lot of police injured and videos of police getting beat up and pushed over while trying hard to keep the protestors away.
But It wouldn't be difficult for one or two of the Capitol Police to work out on websites that were planning this march that they'd be open to allowing fellow extreme Trump supporters (I use the word extreme because not all of his supporters or Republicans condone this behavior). The explanation I've read that seemed sound was offered by Val Demings, a Representative and former Chief of Police of Orlando, who stated was that there seemed to be no operational plan and preparedness for this many people coming from Trump's speech.
 
cb7893 said:
Who are they and them? By whom were they told?
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Just being in government leadership the "they" and "them" are the people that control the politicians. We called them the Bildeburgs. They are in every state controlling just about all and everything. In other words when the mayor gets a call from the head of this corporation about an issue all plans immediately change. The mayor really does not run the city and the Governor really does not run the state. Most of the time when we were told to look the other way on an issue it was from communication and media corporate heads. Several levels above my pay grade. This event in DC is unprecedented but in my opinion it was planned obviously by the most powerful people in the country since all protection was called off. I only had this happen once in my entire career at guess what the DNC in Charlotte in 2008. I cant talk about it but we got a call to stand down when we shouldn't have-very similar to events in DC yesterday.
 
unkown1961 said:
There's a video of Capitol policeman waving people forward, but there are also a lot of police injured and videos of police getting beat up and pushed over while trying hard to keep the protestors away.
But It wouldn't be difficult for one or two of the Capitol Police to work out on websites that were planning this march that they'd be open to allowing fellow extreme Trump supporters (I use the word extreme because not all of his supporters or Republicans condone this behavior). The explanation I've read that seemed sound was offered by Val Demings, a Representative and former Chief of Police of Orlando, who stated was that there seemed to be no operational plan and preparedness for this many people coming from Trump's speech.
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We planned for two weeks all night and day in preparation for major events. We had a plan B, C , D in case there was something out of the ordinary. What happened in DC was the most common of all issues we trained for-the breaching of barricades.
 
lacebolla said:
When BLM protesters protested, they were met with gunshots, tear gas and rubber bullets. However, our police in DC is taking pictures with these "protesters" and doing next to nothing?
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When BLM protesters RIOTED in NYC, they were absolutely not met with gunshots, etc. The NYPD mostly just observed them and much of midtown Manhattan was looted/trashed. Many large and beautiful stores were trashed. St Patricks cathedral was vandalized. Rather than gunshots, etc, they were met by politicians (note that I did not say "leaders") who declared solidarity with them and allowed them to create their own monuments (street paintings) that are somehow sacred. You can deface or pull down statues of heroes like Abraham Lincoln without a peep from law enforcement but don't dare deface the street paintings or the police will arrest you.
In NJ, the governor SIMULTANEOUSLY was barring the citizens from the parks and other public venues while at the same time standing arm in arm with BLM protestors, many not masked and many not distancing. There certainly were no bullets or tear gas in evidence.
 
OldRetSWO said:
When BLM protesters RIOTED in NYC, they were absolutely not met with gunshots, etc. The NYPD mostly just observed them and much of midtown Manhattan was looted/trashed. Many large and beautiful stores were trashed. St Patricks cathedral was vandalized. Rather than gunshots, etc, they were met by politicians (note that I did not say "leaders") who declared solidarity with them and allowed them to create their own monuments (street paintings) that are somehow sacred. You can deface or pull down statues of heroes like Abraham Lincoln without a peep from law enforcement but don't dare deface the street paintings or the police will arrest you.
In NJ, the governor SIMULTANEOUSLY was barring the citizens from the parks and other public venues while at the same time standing arm in arm with BLM protestors, many not masked and many not distancing. There certainly were no bullets or tear gas in evidence.
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Yes and the same people that told them to stand down in NYC, Portland, Seattle, Atlanta and yesterday in DC are the same group of Bildenburg corp heads. It is not the mayor or governor or police chief-they are puppets. I am telling you guys these are the same people that control the 4 star admirals and generals and give them good jobs when they retire. This is the top of the top in the world. It appears someone really has ticked them off for them to do what they are doing.
 
And I came here expecting this thread to be locked up already lol.

Side note: Yesterday I learned from the media that waving American flags, demanding to witness a ballot count, and mildly rowdy behavior makes you a seditious terrorist. On the other hand, turning the city of Minneapolis into a war zone while burning the American flag makes you a peaceful protester and a patriot.
 
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