Second Chances?

W1ngIt

New Member
Hello, I am a current candidate at USMA. I recently called the admissions office and asked if they could disclose my chances on gaining an appointment. The admissions officer kindly told me that truthfully, my application didn't look too promising because of my SAT scores. I was wondering, on my second application process, how would I go about doing so? As a current senior in high school, would I request letters of recommendation from my high school teachers, or would I wait for college to start and have letters of recommendation from my college professors? Also, since I would not go off to play a D-1 level sport, how much would that affect my next application as I would be compared to others that are playing sports in high school or even in college?
 

Teragram

Member
Hello, I am a current candidate at USMA. I recently called the admissions office and asked if they could disclose my chances on gaining an appointment. The admissions officer kindly told me that truthfully, my application didn't look too promising because of my SAT scores. I was wondering, on my second application process, how would I go about doing so? As a current senior in high school, would I request letters of recommendation from my high school teachers, or would I wait for college to start and have letters of recommendation from my college professors? Also, since I would not go off to play a D-1 level sport, how much would that affect my next application as I would be compared to others that are playing sports in high school or even in college?
Have you been deemed 3Q'd (fully qualified)? If not was USMAPS presented as an option?
 

Dixieland

5-Year Member
Use the USMA page's search engine and hunt for "reapply". Keep an eye out for posts by Mom3boys...I think I remember that she gives good suggestions for setting your freshman year up to mirror West Point plebe year.
 

1 2cubs

Member
I am currently a ROTC cadet applying again. If I had been smart about it I would joined the national guard and requested a commanders endorsment - it is a service connect nomination. As long as you are academically qualified you have a very high chance of getting in with a commanders endorsement. Keep in mind depending on when you'd join the guard you'd be sent to basic training over this summer and then to AIT(job training). You can then attend college after that. I'd also do ROTC at the university and get a nomination from the Professor of Military Science. These nominations are pretty competitive but the more nominations the more ways they can slot you for an appointment.
 

W1ngIt

New Member
Have you been deemed 3Q'd (fully qualified)? If not was USMAPS presented as an option?
I don't believe I was deemed 3Q'd. Upon calling the admissions office today, my admissions officer told me that I was missing my body fat percentage information, which I was never sent nor emailed. I had the form sent to me and completed by my school nurse in a matter of hours, scanned and emailed back to my admissions officer. While originally on the phone, was when he told me that my application didn't look too promising academically due to my SAT score of 1110, despite my class rank of 10 of 819. I have been reading through the fourm and found a large number of people getting 3Q'd, LOA's, and LOE's; however, I can't seem to find a 3Q for myself.
 

W1ngIt

New Member
I am currently a ROTC cadet applying again. If I had been smart about it I would joined the national guard and requested a commanders endorsment - it is a service connect nomination. As long as you are academically qualified you have a very high chance of getting in with a commanders endorsement. Keep in mind depending on when you'd join the guard you'd be sent to basic training over this summer and then to AIT(job training). You can then attend college after that. I'd also do ROTC at the university and get a nomination from the Professor of Military Science. These nominations are pretty competitive but the more nominations the more ways they can slot you for an appointment.
Hello, sorry, I don't really understand the difference between joining the national guard compared to a college ROTC program. Are you saying that if I were to chose to join the national guard, I would be able to request a commander's endorsement; and that be the main benefit of joining the national guard in regards to gaining admission into WP?
 

Teragram

Member
I don't believe I was deemed 3Q'd. Upon calling the admissions office today, my admissions officer told me that I was missing my body fat percentage information, which I was never sent nor emailed. I had the form sent to me and completed by my school nurse in a matter of hours, scanned and emailed back to my admissions officer. While originally on the phone, was when he told me that my application didn't look too promising academically due to my SAT score of 1110, despite my class rank of 10 of 819. I have been reading through the fourm and found a large number of people getting 3Q'd, LOA's, and LOE's; however, I can't seem to find a 3Q for myself.
Body fat worksheet missing would keep you from getting 3Q'd. Now that you sent that they can look at it...don't know what breakdown of your SAT is but even if not academically disqualifying, it may be way too low to reach you on MOC slate or NWL for appointment. I would focus attention on taking plebe year course load as a freshman and keep practicing for SAT. Also try ACT, it may be a better test for you.
 

W1ngIt

New Member
Body fat worksheet missing would keep you from getting 3Q'd. Now that you sent that they can look at it...don't know what breakdown of your SAT is but even if not academically disqualifying, it may be way too low to reach you on MOC slate or NWL for appointment. I would focus attention on taking plebe year course load as a freshman and keep practicing for SAT. Also try ACT, it may be a better test for you.
Sorry, but what does MOC slate mean? I've seen this term several times. As for taking plebe year courses, would any of those courses transfer to WP? I scored a 540 Reading and Writing and a 570 on Math. Where could I find more information regarding taking plebe year courses at the University I plan to attend should I not get appointed this year. Also, how long should I have to wait to see if I will be deemed 3Q'd or not?
 

Teragram

Member
Sorry, but what does MOC slate mean? I've seen this term several times. As for taking plebe year courses, would any of those courses transfer to WP? I scored a 540 Reading and Writing and a 570 on Math. Where could I find more information regarding taking plebe year courses at the University I plan to attend should I not get appointed this year. Also, how long should I have to wait to see if I will be deemed 3Q'd or not?
Admissions meets on Tuesdays so now that you have complete file it will get in line for review. MOC stands for members of congress, so this is the list you are on if have congressional or senatorial nomination. If you look on WP website under academics you can see what classes a plebe takes and mirror them at your college. They will not transfer in as far as credits (you would have to take full four years at WP) but you could test to see if can skip to higher level classes rather than repeat what you take at university.
 

Teragram

Member
Additionally, you may want to ask if your SAT is academically disqualifying and ask if USMAPS is a possibility. Prep school is at recommendation of RC in admissions so wouldn't hurt to mention you would be open to attending (that is if you are willing)
 

W1ngIt

New Member
Ah, thank you so much for that insight. I got a congressional nomination in Tx-11 from Congressmen Michael Conaway, not only for my USMA application but also my USNA application. Does anybody have any insight on how competitive this district is?
 

W1ngIt

New Member
Additionally, you may want to ask if your SAT is academically disqualifying and ask if USMAPS is a possibility. Prep school is at recommendation of RC in admissions so wouldn't hurt to mention you would be open to attending (that is if you are willing)
Would I ask my admissions officer if my SAT scores are disqualifying? Would I also ask him about the Prep School?
 

Teragram

Member
Would I ask my admissions officer if my SAT scores are disqualifying? Would I also ask him about the Prep School?
Yes, he would be the one to make recommendation for prep. I believe he is the same as my DD's and if so he is very easy to talk to and will answer all your questions about being fully qualified or not and whether prep school is possibility.
 

W1ngIt

New Member
Yes, he would be the one to make recommendation for prep. I believe he is the same as my DD's and if so he is very easy to talk to and will answer all your questions about being fully qualified or not and whether prep school is possibility.
Congratulations on you DD and his achievements! Hopefully, I hear back from WP in regards to 3Q or a possible appointment. If not, USMAPS sounds like a solid alternative.
 

Teragram

Member
Congratulations on you DD and his achievements! Hopefully, I hear back from WP in regards to 3Q or a possible appointment. If not, USMAPS sounds like a solid alternative.
Thank you, she is 3Q'd with a nomination so now we are waiting just like you to get appointment. Good luck and speak to admissions and be sure to let them know you are interested in prep if not directly appointed.
 
You asked about sports so I will chime in. I live next to a large university and many students participate in club sports. You are from Texas so here are the club sports at Texas A&M. Also if you are a member of ROTC you will work out with your unit on a regular basis. https://recsports.tamu.edu/sport-clubs/ Don't give up complete hope talk to your RC they are awesome. But keep working on plan B-Z.
 

W1ngIt

New Member
You asked about sports so I will chime in. I live next to a large university and many students participate in club sports. You are from Texas so here are the club sports at Texas A&M. Also if you are a member of ROTC you will work out with your unit on a regular basis. https://recsports.tamu.edu/sport-clubs/ Don't give up complete hope talk to your RC they are awesome. But keep working on plan B-Z.
Awesome, thank you very much. I work out on my own for my self-development, in a bodybuilding type of workout. If I were to not play a college club sport would that decrease my chances of gaining an appointment regardless of if I'm in a great physical state as a result of going to the gym 5 times a week?
 

mom3boys

10-Year Member
A few questions/suggestions:
1. Why on earth were you NOT taking the SAT over and over at every opportunity?
2. Get in an SAT prep course now!
3. If you join the National Guard, you won't have any college grades to show West Point...you need to be in classes in the fall.
4. Your plan B should include a senior ROTC college (A&M, Citadel, UNG, etc)
5. Please search and read the forums...everything you ask has been asked at one time (or more) in the recent past...you can find so much great info here if you search.
 

1 2cubs

Member
Hello, sorry, I don't really understand the difference between joining the national guard compared to a college ROTC program. Are you saying that if I were to chose to join the national guard, I would be able to request a commander's endorsement; and that be the main benefit of joining the national guard in regards to gaining admission into WP?
Joining the National Guard is enlisting as a non-commisioned officer. This option I recommend to you if you are 100% sure you want to go. Upon enlisting into the National Guard you'd be signing a contract. You have to go to basic training in most circumstances that summer and then job training (AIT). This fall you'd then go to the college you wanted to go to. You get about $10,000 towards tuition. You would be doing drill once a month on the weekend. If you get into USMA, your enlisted contract gets shredded and you have no obligation to the National Gaurd. One point to make about the National Guard: If you don't get into West Point it will be very hard to go active duty - National Guard is a reserve component of the Army. At the same time as doing National Guard, I'd recommend also doing ROTC. Say you didn't get into USMA, then upon completing your ROTC program your enlisted contract in the National Guard would be re-written as a officer of the National Guard. Again this is a very serious option, not for the faint hearted.
 

USMA 1994

Member
My DD was a re-applicant who received her appointment this year and here is the advice I can give you. This is a competition, candidates change each year and there no real way to predict who you will be competing against next year or how competitive your district will be. Your RC has told you that your test scores are low considering your competition but you need to do a self-evaluation on what you were missing in the other areas. You want people to tell you where to improve, but if you look in the mirror, you can probably find those answers yourself. You do not have to be the 1600 SAT, 4.0 GPA, Captain and All state athlete to get an appointment but your resume should include strong performances and leadership roles in your activities.
1. You will have to improve your test scores and they only way to do that is study and keep taking the test. Find some test prep classes both on and off line. This will be difficult as your first semester of college is difficult without this extra burden. You should also look at taking the ACT and seeing how you do. The class profile shows the average scores and your goal needs to be above the average.
2. You have to take a challenging first semester of college that looks like the first year of a STEM major and preform well, not necessarily a 4.0 but a 3.5 would look really good. You do not have to exactly mirror a plebe schedule if there is a reason not to retake a class. USMA wants to see that you can handle a challenging course load. DD tested out of English, History and Calculus but replaced them with an additional chemistry class, a biology class, an extra lab and ROTC. You shouldn't fill your schedule with dance, music theory and underwater basket weaving. A successful semester of college with a challenging course load gives the biggest WCS boost that one can get.
3. Stay active in extracurricular activities and seek out additional leadership roles. You should know how strong this area is now and either maintain the same level or look to increase it if possible. There will be many clubs and activities for you to participate in in college.
4. Look at joining your local ROTC program. ROTC shares the same mission as West Point, create leaders for our Army. You do not have to be a scholarship winner to start the program. If you do well in ROTC, you have the opportunity to compete for an ROTC scholarship for your last three years. This is a great plan B. ROTC cadets are also eligible for a service connected nomination that gives you another opportunity to compete for admission. You do not have to attend a Senior ROTC college if that is not a good fit for you. There are no guarantees next year and your Plan B must work for you. There are cadets from all ROTC units that make it there second time around.
5. Make sure that you understand the commitment if you are looking at the National Guard. There are no guarantees on admission next year year and make sure you can see yourself as an enlisted soldier for the next four to six years.
6. The admissions and nomination process will start over in July. It is a long and difficult process. Some of the West Point things carry over but your portal will look very similar. The MOCs do not keep anything so you have to completely start over. This was the DD's most difficult part in the process as you are relying on people that you no longer see each day.

If you truly want to be an Army Officer, do not give up hope and keep working on plan B. The bottom line here is that if you go off to college and preform at a high level in everything you do, you will be competitive for an appointment. There is no way anyone can tell you that you will get in but you will be one year closer to being commissioned through college and ROTC.
 
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