Second Guessing USMMA

[StPaulDad]

In today's world you can do plenty along the lines of grad school and such even while sailing to keep up.

More importantly, I would suggest an alternate view of life such as "who gives an F about your 'peer group'".

I would suggest one define their own success in furtherance of their own happiness instead of worrying about keeping up with their "peer group".

+1000

After a few years your peer group will be clawing their way into lower management or stashing away what they can for a house and you can send them pics from around the world, or not send pics from your lucrative port management gig, or maybe not give them a thought and follow the path you choose between now and then. If keeping up with your classmates is that important then you should definitely move to a cool sounding yet outrageously expensive city, get a job you kind of don't like, run up some credit card debt and create an impossible Instagram page to make the rest of the AP Calc BC class feel like they're behind. Hurrah you've won, something, maybe. The sooner you can set your own goals and standards the happier you'll be.

 

[ying1xn]

Long story so bear with me. I am a sports recruit for USMMA, and up until the coach reached out to me this summer I had never even considered a SA. I visited in September and immediately fell in love with the school, program, and entire experience. I began my application process and somehow received a congressional nomination (my grades are severely average). I’ve done as much research as possible, however, as it gets closer and closer I find myself second guessing. I have never had any experience sailing, and have never wanted to be a STEM major. I have no issue with the school itself, but since it is notoriously difficult I do not think it would be worth going through unless I can find a job that I would enjoy. The last thing I want to do is commit and then fail out or leave because it is not the right fit. I do believe that nerves are also playing a big role in this. Does anyone have any advice/ job ideas for someone looking to go into law/english or literally anything besides STEM?

I am also a sports recruit for USMMA who's in senior year rn and honestly before visiting and meeting with the coach I wasn't considering KP because truth is my grades for STEM-related classes are def not the strongest and my area of interest was geared more for a medical profession related field. However, after speaking with a couple of alumni and students there are many opportunities even for students who are more interested in other fields such as English/ law as you mentioned especially for your case if you look at the USMMA academics department tab there are of classes for English and literature and students going into maritime law after graduation isn't unheard of either. If hardcore math and science is the problem Deck is an option. After graduation, there are also other opportunities for grad school or transferring branches to an active service branch as well if you don't particularly like working in the maritime industry. (Hope this helped and all of this info is from what I heard from other students etc.)

 

[ying1xn]

No Appointment yet, still working on getting my cfa scores higher before my application is completed. also have no LOA that I am aware of, would it be beneficial to reach out to the coach and ask?

As for this, I only received my LOA after asking the coach and got it about a week later.

 

[Mr2020]

In today's world you can do plenty along the lines of grad school and such even while sailing to keep up.

More importantly, I would suggest an alternate view of life such as "who gives an F about your 'peer group'".

I would suggest one define their own success in furtherance of their own happiness instead of worrying about keeping up with their "peer group".

Great, what school can the student sailing 10-11 months a year at MSC with sub dial up speed internet get his or her MBA from? Must be a diploma mill.

I’m sure the professors would be very understanding in other cases of you having to get up and leave every 75 days (JA tanker schedule) and reward you with straight F’s.

KP was a great deal for old alums who had effectively no obligation to do anything. Right now unless your absolute dream is to sail or you wanted Active Duty and just didn’t get into another academy it is a bad choice and one countless students have come to regret

 

[Mr2020]

+1000

After a few years your peer group will be clawing their way into lower management or stashing away what they can for a house and you can send them pics from around the world, or not send pics from your lucrative port management gig, or maybe not give them a thought and follow the path you choose between now and then. If keeping up with your classmates is that important then you should definitely move to a cool sounding yet outrageously expensive city, get a job you kind of don't like, run up some credit card debt and create an impossible Instagram page to make the rest of the AP Calc BC class feel like they're behind. Hurrah you've won, something, maybe. The sooner you can set your own goals and standards the happier you'll be.

This has nothing to do with keeping up with people. Merchant Marine officer pay is highly stagnant. Airlines and UPS drivers have had far better deals and wage hikes. If you are going to be part of a trade (glorified tradeschool) you might as well choose one where the workers are in the drivers seat. In that regard the merchant marine should be close to last on the list. The unions are in a race to the bottom.

 

[BobtheBuilder1776]

Long story so bear with me. I am a sports recruit for USMMA, and up until the coach reached out to me this summer I had never even considered a SA. I visited in September and immediately fell in love with the school, program, and entire experience. I began my application process and somehow received a congressional nomination (my grades are severely average). I’ve done as much research as possible, however, as it gets closer and closer I find myself second guessing. I have never had any experience sailing, and have never wanted to be a STEM major. I have no issue with the school itself, but since it is notoriously difficult I do not think it would be worth going through unless I can find a job that I would enjoy. The last thing I want to do is commit and then fail out or leave because it is not the right fit. I do believe that nerves are also playing a big role in this. Does anyone have any advice/ job ideas for someone looking to go into law/english or literally anything besides STEM?

USMMA is 100% tailored around making Merchant Marine sailors. Even worse than that, it specifically makes overly regimented sailors, which is not required in the maritime industry at all. If you do not want to sail do not come to KP. Even more so, do not come if you are not interested in a STEM degree. If you want to go active duty, do ROTC. I wish I would have. KP is the path of most resistance, and you will be miserable. They are cracking down on people not fulfilling their sailing commitment after school, so there are no other options other than sailing or Active Duty. Go somewhere else if you want to do law, or English or anything like that. There is a good chance, not matter how well you did in high school you could end up a setback or kicked out (I was not either of those things, but I have seen many of my friends get setback or kicked out). Not to mention, the school's management is destroying it from within.

Take my advice and keep your sanity.

 

[CLJ326]

USMMA is 100% tailored around making Merchant Marine sailors. Even worse than that, it specifically makes overly regimented sailors, which is not required in the maritime industry at all. If you do not want to sail do not come to KP. Even more so, do not come if you are not interested in a STEM degree. If you want to go active duty, do ROTC. I wish I would have. KP is the path of most resistance, and you will be miserable. They are cracking down on people not fulfilling their sailing commitment after school, so there are no other options other than sailing or Active Duty. Go somewhere else if you want to do law, or English or anything like that. There is a good chance, not matter how well you did in high school you could end up a setback or kicked out (I was not either of those things, but I have seen many of my friends get setback or kicked out). Not to mention, the school's management is destroying it from within.

Take my advice and keep your sanity.

The industry is cyclical and there were many years with lots of shoreside opportunities and not enough sailing jobs. The pendulum will probably swing back since the fleet is not growing. The experience is valuable even if you shift career paths.
It does sound like the academy may have gotten more regimental. Some policies seem tougher like not securing watches for long federal holiday weekends and minimal liberty for plebes this far in (hopefully they are getting saturday nights now). This was always an intense program that basically got a 5 year co-op program done in 4. It is definitely a shipping centric program since that is its mission.

 

[KPEngineer]

USMMA is 100% tailored around making Merchant Marine sailors.

With the amount of time USMMA spends advertising those who go active duty military I would say it is definitely less than 100% tailored around making Merchant Marine sailors.

Even worse than that, it specifically makes overly regimented sailors,

I am curious if this is related to the increased Military Sealift Command time for sea-year experiences? MSC is vastly different and much more "regimented" than the rest of the US maritime industry.

overly regimented sailors, which is not required in the maritime industry at all.

Those of us who were at sea prior to the institution of the ISM code might disagree with you. What you call "regimented", some of us might call "safe".

They are cracking down on people not fulfilling their sailing commitment after school, so there are no other options other than sailing or Active Duty.

There is a world-wide mariner shortage and making seagoing officers is the primary mission of the school so this is to be expected and isn't really a secret. If one goes expecting not to have to sail than one should review how they came to that expectation.

There is a good chance, not matter how well you did in high school you could end up a setback or kicked out

Personally I think KP should be a five-year program but I don't have any say other than posting on internet forums. Graduation is less about intelligence and far far far more about time management.

Not to mention, the school's management is destroying it from within.

No argument there

 

[mackandcheese2006]

I disagree with the "don't come here if you don't want to be a mariner". I've talked to many alumni and my sister who is currently there and USMMA prepares the students with military aspirations in the best way possible. Those who graduate are some of the most successful in the military. The Marine Corps has a direct partnership with the academy and my sister told me they had a meeting and the Marines were like you guys are tougher than the other academies, this school makes you tougher. So yeah if you like the easy route it is not for you, but I believe the harder you work the larger the payoff. Also, no other academy lets you go into whatever branch you want.

 

[smorble]

I think that the school is right for me, it’s just that I don’t know if the career choice is. I am worried that I will be stuck to sailing, and as much as I think I love the school, I am not sure if that is a risk I am willing to take. Hope this makes sense, thank you so much for responding

A lot of sea work will only have you out at sea for half the year. Even if you hate the job, consider the time off and how helpful being debt free and less burdened by costs like rent is. If you hate the job at sea, go into a service branch, or save up some cash and go back to college. USMMA offers so many different paths, alongside backup if that path doesn't work out. A lot more backup then a normal college does.

 

[navy2715]

A lot of sea work will only have you out at sea for half the year. Even if you hate the job, consider the time off and how helpful being debt free and less burdened by costs like rent is. If you hate the job at sea, go into a service branch, or save up some cash and go back to college. USMMA offers so many different paths, alongside backup if that path doesn't work out. A lot more backup then a normal college does.

After thinking about this for a few more months I’ve decided that I really appreciate the security of having a guaranteed job right after graduation, even if it means I’ll be sailing. If I get an appointment I am 100% going. You said or save up cash to go back to college? Is this allowed before my completing my service commitment or would I not be able to go back to school until it is finished?

 

[ColoGator]

After thinking about this for a few more months I’ve decided that I really appreciate the security of having a guaranteed job right after graduation, even if it means I’ll be sailing. If I get an appointment I am 100% going. You said or save up cash to go back to college? Is this allowed before my completing my service commitment or would I not be able to go back to school until it is finished?

heck you could work on another degree on-line while you're at sea in addition to half of the year that you're not sailing.

 

[Mr2020]

With the amount of time USMMA spends advertising those who go active duty military I would say it is definitely less than 100% tailored around making Merchant Marine sailors.

How is advertising graduates correlated with the curriculum of the school? He is right, day to day school work and regimental life are 100% geared towards merchant sailing.

I am curious if this is related to the increased Military Sealift Command time for sea-year experiences? MSC is vastly different and much more "regimented" than the rest of the US maritime industry.

MSC has nothing to do with this. vastly different? in terms of the day to day job there are differences, although I wouldn't necessarily call them vast. MSC is not regimented in the slightest, unless you are referring to the shoreside commands or the hybrid manned ships that are actually commissioned warships.

Those of us who were at sea prior to the institution of the ISM code might disagree with you. What you call "regimented", some of us might call "safe".

There is a world-wide mariner shortage and making seagoing officers is the primary mission of the school so this is to be expected and isn't really a secret. If one goes expecting not to have to sail than one should review how they came to that expectation.


Personally I think KP should be a five-year program but I don't have any say other than posting on internet forums. Graduation is less about intelligence and far far far more about time management.

So the student should waste 5 years to earn a B.S. Degree? What value would the extra year add? it'd be more helpful to reduce it to 3. This is a trade school. The faster you get out of the gate the faster you start learning your trade.

 

[cmakin]

A lot of sea work will only have you out at sea for half the year. Even if you hate the job, consider the time off and how helpful being debt free and less burdened by costs like rent is. If you hate the job at sea, go into a service branch, or save up some cash and go back to college. USMMA offers so many different paths, alongside backup if that path doesn't work out. A lot more backup then a normal college does.

I disagree. A maritime career requires more of a commitment of one's personal time than most. If you hate the job, you will be less willing to sacrifice your life/time to the job than if you like it. I know that when I was sailing, it wasn't uncommon to spend extra time at sea when a relief wasn't available or voyages were not predictable. Likewise, I had to drop everything while on my time off and come back to work for many, various reasons.

 

[KPEngineer]

So the student should waste 5 years to earn a B.S. Degree? What value would the extra year add? it'd be more helpful to reduce it to 3. This is a trade school. The faster you get out of the gate the faster you start learning your trade.

Fair point ... my assumption was that it is staying a Bachelor's program vs just getting the license.

 

[KPEngnr90]

W

Lots of options that don't include sailing on your license. However - you have to serve in some capacity to pay back the "free" college. USMMA is a trade school and it requires 100% commitment to get through it no matter your major.

If you go to "normal" college you may not have a great job waiting for you upon graduation. After KP you will have your choice of many jobs or an Officer's commission that you can use to get EXPERIENCE which everyone that graduates for normal college lacks. This is why there are so many unpaid internships out there - people are willing to basically be unpaid slaves in order to be able to compete for work.

I'm a USNA grad but have family connections to KP. All were on the engineering track and have had amazing careers making $$$ with high quality of life (in their early 30s) that compares to what I make it my 40s. I was career Navy FWIW.

There is no guarantee that you will graduate "normal" college and find a job you like - let alone find a job that can pay back the tuition.

Wow! Actual Kudos for the Zoo from an NA grad. Am I dreaming?

 

[KPEngnr90]

After thinking about this for a few more months I’ve decided that I really appreciate the security of having a guaranteed job right after graduation, even if it means I’ll be sailing. If I get an appointment I am 100% going. You said or save up cash to go back to college? Is this allowed before my completing my service commitment or would I not be able to go back to school until it is finished?

Let me tell you something kid. You'll only regret it if you don't go. I was a marginal student at the Zoo but I busted my ass to not get set back or dismissed. Anything good is not easy. Right now the starting salary for 3rd Mates/3rd Engineers is $120-160k/yr. Not many 21-22 y/o making that kind of money. Your contemporaries from the other academies will be making less than half of that. If you play your cards right and make some shrewd investments and not squander the money on stupid things like cars, girls or whatever, you could find yourself independently wealthy in your early 30's and go on to whatever you want to do and not answering to anyone. Maybe a wife. LOL.

 

[KPEngnr90]

Hi, I am also a USMMA hopeful and at the beginning I was worried about this sort of thing. However, my sister is there now and its crazy how many opportunities she has. There is firefighting, EMT training, boat licensing, and on top of that you can major in something is like being a decky, and still be a pilot in any branch, or a public affairs officer in any branch. Everything may seem like sea sea sea, but I just look at that as some traveling built in to a college curriculum.

How many of your friends can say they've seen 20 plus countries before their 20th birthday. I bet you'd be the only one.