Senate vs. Congressional

Dadx4

Dadx4

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Any thoughts on the relative value of senate nominations vs. congressional? Is a congressional nomination more valuable because the battle to win the district slate is less fierce than competing with the top candidates from the entire state? I know that it's an amazing honor to have either (or both). Or does it balance out because senate nominations do better in the National Pool?
 
A nomination is a nomination is a nomination. None is better or worse than another. None gets you more "points" over another. Zilch, zero, nada.
Besides, you're competing on the slate for which you have the nomination. Everyone else on the same slate got the same nomination. So how would they weight that even if they wanted to? Wouldn't it all be awash?
 
To go even further, many MOCs talk and coordinate. A senator might see you already have a congressional nom, and nominate someone else to spread the wealth. Therefore, Senate noms are not "stronger".
 
hopefulmom182 said:
To go even further, many MOCs talk and coordinate. A senator might see you already have a congressional nom, and nominate someone else to spread the wealth. Therefore, Senate noms are not "stronger".
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However, how does it work when MOCs rank and coordinate? Let's say an MOC put a kid on the slate, but lower than where the senator would?
 
I agree all nominations carry the same weight. Conceptually, and maybe I'm overthinking it, for competitive districts where MOCs talk, if a candidate receives a senate nomination on a competitive slate, but turns out to be #2 instead of winning the slate, might that candidate have competed better on a congressional district slate where the competition was not state-wide (unless the #1 senate candidate was also in his congressional district)? However, said #2 candidate may do well off the NWL, not because of the senate nomination, but because he competed in a tough state.
 
THmom said:
However, how does it work when MOCs rank and coordinate? Let's say an MOC put a kid on the slate, but lower than where the senator would?
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Most MOCs submit competitive slates. Though I'm no expert, I'd imagine they would only coordinate if submitting competitive rather than ranking.
 
hopefulmom182 said:
Most MOCs submit competitive slates. Though I'm no expert, I'd imagine they would only coordinate if submitting competitive rather than ranking.
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That's what I can't quite figure out. I know they rank and I know they coordinate so as to spread the noms. I just don't see clearly how this works.
 
THmom said:
That's what I can't quite figure out. I know they rank and I know they coordinate so as to spread the noms. I just don't see clearly how this works.
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Noms can be submitted 3 different ways:

1. Principal, Ranked: the MOC determines the order of his slate that the SA must choose
2. Principal, Unranked: One principal, and the rest of the slate should be ranked/chosen by the SA
3. Competitive: This is how most MOCs submit. There is no ranking of the slate. Instead the SAs determine who they want.

I have to assume that those MOCs that are coordinating are submitting competitive slates rather than ranking them.
 
In theory a nomination is a nomination is a nomination but in practice they can are different.

I think your initial thought is correct for most cases on competitive slates. The competition at the local MOC level is usually easier than that at the Senator's level. Reality is that most local reps have 2-5 strong candidates and that is the competition for his spot and most all states will have 10 strong candidates at the Senator's level.

There are also numerous different ways that the members of congress may coordinate. In Texas, the Senators generally coordinate but the state is to big to coordinate with every house member. Most candidates that get a Senator's nomination also have one from the local MOC. It is hard to compile that data from every state but complete coordination is almost impossible.

Now people will say that "this one time" and that may be true but generally speaking you are on the right track. Most high school applicants get an offer of appointment by winning the local representative's slate. It is hard for normal applicants to compete off the National Waiting List unless they have some other distinguishing item in the application. The college boost heavily favors college re-applicants.
 
USMA 1994 said:
In theory a nomination is a nomination is a nomination but in practice they can are different.

I think your initial thought is correct for most cases on competitive slates. The competition at the local MOC level is usually easier than that at the Senator's level. Reality is that most local reps have 2-5 strong candidates and that is the competition for his spot and most all states will have 10 strong candidates at the Senator's level.

There are also numerous different ways that the members of congress may coordinate. In Texas, the Senators generally coordinate but the state is to big to coordinate with every house member. Most candidates that get a Senator's nomination also have one from the local MOC. It is hard to compile that data from every state but complete coordination is almost impossible.

Now people will say that "this one time" and that may be true but generally speaking you are on the right track. Most high school applicants get an offer of appointment by winning the local representative's slate. It is hard for normal applicants to compete off the National Waiting List unless they have some other distinguishing item in the application. The college boost heavily favors college re-applicants.
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Ok! I think this is making more sense. Yes, they may “coordinate”, but what that ultimately looks like varies. Got it!
 
USMA 1994 said:
Now people will say that "this one time" and that may be true but generally speaking you are on the right track. Most high school applicants get an offer of appointment by winning the local representative's slate. It is hard for normal applicants to compete off the National Waiting List unless they have some other distinguishing item in the application. The college boost heavily favors college re-applicants.
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I am a Texas Aggie and may be a little slow in following...

But why does the "college boost" of college re-applicants heavily favor them in the National Waiting List? Doesn't it also favor them in the local rep's slate competition? If they have the extra boost wouldn't they tend to win in the local rep competition? I understand that about a third of appointees are re-applicants so it is definitely a significant factor I hadn't thought about much before.
 
williamsdr3 said:
I am a Texas Aggie and may be a little slow in following...

But why does the "college boost" of college re-applicants heavily favor them in the National Waiting List? Doesn't it also favor them in the local rep's slate competition? If they have the extra boost wouldn't they tend to win in the local rep competition? I understand that about a third of appointees are re-applicants so it is definitely a significant factor I hadn't thought about much before.
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The college boost is a numerical value up to 300 points (depending on college grades) added to the WCS. The Whole Candidate Score is a point value used by the SA to rank the applicant on the NWL. It has no benefit to the MOC nomination because the WCS is not used to determine the winners of nomination. MOC require a totally separate application from the candidate and conduct their own interviews to determine who gets the 10 nominations.
 
Roadking said:
The college boost is a numerical value up to 300 points (depending on college grades) added to the WCS. The Whole Candidate Score is a point value used by the SA to rank the applicant on the NWL. It has no benefit to the MOC nomination because the WCS is not used to determine the winners of nomination. MOC require a totally separate application from the candidate and conduct their own interviews to determine who gets the 10 nominations.
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I understand the MOC nomination process has nothing to do with the academies ranking/scores, but - Wow - up to 300 pts! I imagine there must be quite a few college re-applicants with all A's earning big points. But the college boost, being part of the WCS would be factored in as well for the slate winner calculations for competitive slates (as in our district) where the academy rather than MOC decides the ranking/winner. Even before people get to the NWL stage of the game. Right?

Thanks for the info - very interesting (and frankly, daunting).
 
williamsdr3 said:
I understand the MOC nomination process has nothing to do with the academies ranking/scores, but - Wow - up to 300 pts! I imagine there must be quite a few college re-applicants with all A's earning big points. But the college boost, being part of the WCS would be factored in as well for the slate winner calculations for competitive slates (as in our district) where the academy rather than MOC decides the ranking/winner. Even before people get to the NWL stage of the game. Right?

Thanks for the info - very interesting (and frankly, daunting).
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The SA would use the WCS to select the nomination winner from the 10 names that MOC puts forward to WP, but the WCS doesn’t help the candidate become one of those 10 names. The only scenario where WCS wouldn’t matter would be if the MOC chooses a principle nominee, then that candidate would get the appointment from that slate as long as he or she is 3Q
 
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