Discussion in 'Publicly and Privately Funded Military Colleges' started by mwbluebeard, Dec 10, 2008.
What do you see as its unique strengths?
My fingers can't keep up this late at night!
I'm curious too.
A friend whose son is in his first year at the Citadel sent this
Do you think the foul language thing is common to all colleges/military colleges, and service academies?
If (son) did not have an LD-ADD - he would be breezing through the Citadel. He is all into the "military end" of the Citadel....but is struggling academically. The other hardpart is that it is definately not a Christian arena....the language is horrendous...the F word is used very! often and worse....(son) didn't know what some of the tihings they were yelling at him meant....God sent him an "upper classman angel" and early on - this officer asked (son) if he drank , smoked, or cussed and (son) responded with a "Sir, No Sir".....he took our (son) under his wing that day....but the rest of the officers are very FOUL mouthed and somewhat mean....
Would I send (son) there if I didn't feel it was he only chance at graduating frm college...probably not...but (husband) and I both feel it is his only option and that it is in God's plan for (son) to "grow up" with the strict discipline enforced on campus.
The negative talk and actions have not changed (son) - as he feared it would at the beginning....he is actually looked up to by his peers....so that is definately a God thing
What a do recommend HIGHLY!!!!!!!!!!!!!! is the CSI summer school - it is pricey....but (son) says he would have NEVER! made it through the first three weeks had he not attended that ...
Wow. Where did you happen to find that?
My two cents. The answer to your question is yes.
However, foul language is common among this age group everywhere. Much much more common with this generation than 30 years ago. Just watch TV - plenty of words are uttered on prime time that would not have been allowed at my parents dinner table.
BTW - I have know plenty of "Christians" who have foul mouths.
Also - The Citadel is a public institution not a Christian one.
The military is not a Christian institution either.
Anyone who is only comfortable in a "Christian" environment should not belong to either - IMO.
This is not to say that folks who are uncomfortable with foul language have to tolerate or use it. They do not. But they can't be in a position where it upsets them so much that it affects their job or ability to get along with others.
The Citadel - this is one of a few senior military colleges in the US. Other than a service academy these are the schools to go to if you want a completely military environment. Academically The Citadel is not nearly as selective as the SA's.
The leadership training is not quite the same as the training as at West Point which was changed about 10 years ago. This is not to say they don't graduate leaders.
As I have said elsewhere, I can only speak with certainty on VMI. But from my interactions with my counterparts at other military schools, yes. Profanity (and other vulgarities) are pervasive.
At the end of the day, all military schools are products of society, even if we're 10-20 years behind. I was recently talking with an Alum from the Class of 1980. He distinctly remembers a situation in the late '70s where some of the Cadre were swearing at rats in ranks (outside barracks), and some Alum overheard. They pulled the Cadre members aside and lit them up, and then sent them up to the GC (recommended them for a penalty from the cadet government). Today, it would be impossible to enforce this kind of standard. And to be honest, it takes a while for people to change their vocabularies after they've been talking that way throughout high school and before.
That said, we do try to keep an eye on Cadre and other cadet leaders. There are penalties for excessive use of profanity when training/correcting the rats. But when they're with their buddies? They can talk however they want to, behind closed doors.
Another dynamic to remember about VMI and The Citadel is that they're almost-all-male schools. Women are still so small of a minority that the guys often forget we're around. It leads to some pretty funny (and embarassing, though usually more so for the guys) situations. It's just like any other time you get a bunch of college aged guys together, though. It's locker room talk, only the entire barracks is the locker room.
It can be difficult to maintain your personal standards in accordance with religious convictions in this kind of environment, but there are always others around. I know at VMI, Chaplain Park provides several opportunities a week for cadets of all faiths to get together and encourage others within their faith group. I'm sure The Citadel has similar religious services available. It's a lot easier as an upperclassman, too, when you can choose your own roommates (I assume it's the same at The Citadel).
As a female cadet and as a Christian, I strive hard not to use foul language or tell dirty jokes, but I'll be the first to admit I'm only human. The guys I hang out with know the limits, though. I'm very hard to offend, so when I do speak up about something being inappropriate, they listen and respect those limits. I have no reason to believe that cadets at other military schools would not show the same level of decency. And if they don't, well, it will quickly become clear to your son/daughter that he/she should find a different crowd to run with. It's all part of the process of striking out on your own for the first time, truly owning your faith/value system, and being forced to take responsibility for your own decisions regarding your lifestyle and social habits.
Hope this helps.
Jackie M. Briski
VMI Class of 2009
I can tell you after 20 yrs of being married to an AIr Force Officer, swearing is all of the place and it is common. This is just the world they are in and the F word to them is no different than saying G Whiz.
I can understand your Christian beliefs, (I am Catholic), but I am with JAM. The military is not a Christian organization, if anything you will question your religious beliefs...i.e how do you go into battle and you might be responsible for non-combatant deaths(call in air strike/become a ranger and go on SpecOPs)...that is war.
Bless you for your beliefs, but take a real hard look at what you are signing up for. It's not about just the F bomb, it's about what might happen when you are AD and how it might not mesh with your christian beliefs. (Thou Shall Not Kill, and Observe the Sabbath Day). I do know somebody who actually said it is SUnday and I don't work on Sunday, believe me a lot of F Bombs were dropped on him and he worked on that Sunday. Read the fine print you work 365 days a yrs since you are always on call even on leave the military can call you back
While I hate to further derail a thread that was originally about the strengths of El Cid, anyone interested in being a Christian in the military (specifically combat arms) should read The Road to Unafraid by CPT Jeff Struecker. You can also find more info about him at: http://www.jeffstruecker.com/.
Now hopefully someone else can provide some insight into the strengths of The Citadel for the original poster, because I for one have no experience on that one!
its hard to follow your christian beliefs as a member as the military, or to at least abide by some of the major credos: thou shalt not kill etc etc.
the military is a pretty violent, profane, NON CHRISTIAN institution where in the end, it is their sole job to protect the constitution from all enemies foreign and domestic- translation: kill those people that would harm everyday americans and what we stand for as a nation. i'd say the marines are the ultimate example of that.
i guess the only way to remain religious in the military, especialy combat arms, is to keep an internal moral compass that in some cases/coincidentally may be instilled by one's religion, and use that to make decisions in the field. but undoubedtly, you'll have to overlook some major christian beliefs in order to do your job succesfully in the military. what is more important for YOU: serving in the military and doing all that is required of you by that job (and losing your religion in a sense), or following your religion/not sacrificing it's core beliefs.
it's an issue no doubt.
It's also important to remember that "non Christian" does not mean "Unchristian".
This is a huge detour from the original posting but here goes.
The Army is full of devout and devoted Christians who live their faith every day of their lives in uniform and they don't overlook any "major christian beliefs" to do so. (I won't go into a discourse of justifying the military- go read Thomas Aquinas or a thousand other proponents of the Just War theory for yourself). Further-in the story of Christ with the Centurion, the Centurion (roughly the Roman equivalent of a Battalion Commander- a professional soldier) is held up by Christ as the exemplar of faith in action: "For I too am a man under authority with soldiers under me - to some I say I say Go and they go- to others come and they come.... say the word and my servant will be healed...." Christ's response: "I tell you that in all Israel I have not found a greater faith...". Soldiers understand faith- in fact they operate daily under the assumption that what they are called to do is right and necessary- it is the ones who operate with no moral compass who put themselves and everything that we as an Army are striving to do in jeopardy. So- is the Army foul mouthed? yes it is. Are the soldiers in it often badly in need of moral leadership - absolutely. Does the Army look for that in its officers- Absolutely it does. I would submit that a Christian who is shying away from service because the Army is often a coarse environment is walking away from a chance to exercise the great commission with deeds and not words.
Thank you for this post. I think you hit the nail on the head.
Me too. Officers' Christian Fellowship is a great resource
for folks who are having any angst in around this topic.
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