Tesla or EV auto anyone?

justdoit19

Proud parent of an ANG, USNA X2, and a MidSib
5-Year Member
Joined
Apr 9, 2017
Messages
9,392
Anyone own one? As a primary car? One of mine is wanting to purchase a Tesla. I have no frame of reference. Sure, it sound great to ‘not buy gas’. But how does it all work, practically, for day to day ops? Is recharging easy and convenient? How restrictive will this be (he will have to look for an apartment that has charging ports? Is that a pain? What about a cross country trip…do you have to plan it differently to account for charging?).

Honestly, to me, it makes sense as a 2nd car. I’m not seeing the benefits…only challenges. But, again, no experience in my family or circle of friends.
 
I'd like to have one if they didn't catch fire, could get me a reasonable distance without recharging which I believe takes a lot longer than it takes to fill up a tank with gasoline, and if they were available at a reasonable price.

P.S. - I know gas powered cars catch fire. Both Mustangs I've owned caught fire. The second one, a 2004 anniversary model, almost killed my son.

Edit for another P.S. - I also know coal is being replaced with natural gas for producing electricity.
 
When I last did the math, it didn't sensibly, from a value perspective, allow for me to purchase of an EV. Perhaps there will come a day when it will make better economic sense. And, hopefully, the range of these vehicles and charging time will make sense for our relatively long drives by then. As of now, I'm steering clear. The fact that we can pump gas into a car/truck in just a few minutes is not something I'm quite willing to give up. Maybe someone on this forum can explain how they manage this issue on a 400-800 mile trip??
 
Opening myself up to harassment I'm sure...but yes, we have one EV (Mustang) and one gas car. EV is used around town primarily...has a 290 mile range so that's never an issue.

Pros:
-Super fun to drive. Roller coaster acceleration.
-Easy to charge in our garage. Just plug in when home once or twice a week (or daily...won't overcharge)
-Cheap if charged at home on low demand plan (charges between 11pm-7am for about $1.80 for 290 mile range). Note: we just set program to charge during those hours...can plug in anytime.
-Loaded with advanced tech.
-Best car ever for waiting somewhere (soccer practice, tailgating, etc) as it's basically one big battery.

Cons:
-Not best roadtrip car as infrastructure not there. HAVE done trips in it but adds about 30 mins/ 4 hr drive travel time.
-Would NOT own one without a garage as public charging kind of sucks.
-cost typically higher than gas car unless can swing tax incentives to offset. Will have to do math on that one locally.
-At least in Georgia...high number of heckling and crap we take daily from others who have never even drive an EV. Seriously...politics in cars? It's not like it's a Chevy :)
 
Anyone own one? As a primary car? One of mine is wanting to purchase a Tesla. I have no frame of reference. Sure, it sound great to ‘not buy gas’. But how does it all work, practically, for day to day ops? Is recharging easy and convenient? How restrictive will this be (he will have to look for an apartment that has charging ports? Is that a pain? What about a cross country trip…do you have to plan it differently to account for charging?).

Honestly, to me, it makes sense as a 2nd car. I’m not seeing the benefits…only challenges. But, again, no experience in my family or circle of friends.
I have a Tesla and have been a follower of the EV space for many years. My MS thesis was on electrical distribution and my PhD dissertation is on EV adoption. I say all that simply to establish that I'm likely biased but try very hard to be balanced in my views. The following is a mixture of personal experience and things I've read in peer-reviewed research, though most will be personal based on the nature of your inquiry.

My Tesla is 2021 Model 3 long range. It is my primary car. First and foremost, as someone who considers himself to be a "car guy" and spent far too much money on cars in his twenties, this is the best car I've ever owned. If nothing else, that's my 2c.

Day to day ops: I'm fortunate enough to have been able to install a L2 charger at my house (L2 is simply faster). I love it because I never have to deal with the gas station. Every morning I have a "full tank" as it were, though honestly I meet what much of the research shows: 99% of my driving needs can be easily met by the ~300 miles of range the car gets. Though Tesla has opened the supercharger network to other makes, the other OEMs are still transitioning. Thus, the abundance of superchargers makes a road trip pleasant. I've done several 600m+ trips and charging was never an issue. Does it take a little longer? Yes. Do I mind that? No. It gives me a real break, plus I have young kids so I'm stopping anyway for potty breaks, snacks, a diaper change, etc. Any cross-country trip will use routes with superchargers. If your son is doing it solo, I suspect the charging stops will make the trip longer. In my early 40s I appreciate the breaks much more than I did in my 20s when I'd just power through long drives.

The NHTS crash test data is unequivocal: Teslas are the safest. If my boys were of driving age, I'd want them in one. Plus, I can monitor the car from my phone when they're driving. ;)

Apartment living with an EV is more challenging, something shown in the research. Charging is tougher, though there are ample places to charge in any city these days. For example, I'm fortunate enough to be able to game the system in my current dissertation work where I drive to free Volta chargers (they're advertising supported), plug in, and then work from my laptop while I charge. Your son will need to adapt to it but IMO the adaptation isn't burdensome. It's simply a different paradigm than what we've experienced our entire lives. I wouldn't want to apartment live with an EV as a busy professional with young kids. If I was in my 20s and single or just dating, it wouldn't be a big deal.

Savings: I'm averaging about $1600/year in fuel savings using electric versus gas, based on the cost per kilowatt-hour for my area and gas. Here's where things ofter veer into politics and fear mongering, but I trust the copious peer-reviewed data I've gone through in my PhD: if an EV is powered ONLY by coal, it's about as dirty as a gas car. However, even in that scenario, it moves the pollution away from city centers, which is still a health benefit. There are several Teslas and EVs at my son's preschool, and I love it because I see little lungs not breathing in various pollutants. The one guy with a huge truck graciously parks a little further away, which is kind of him, because he knows (and acknowledged to me) that exhaust shouldn't be aimed at the after school play area.

Summary: I see sooooo many benefits, but the upfront adaptation challenge is a big one. Range anxiety is a real thing initially but quickly dissipates with experience (research shows this as well). My dad would drive his car until the needle was well past 'E' but told me he wouldn't trust my Tesla under 30% charge, haha. On a longer time-scale, they produce fuel and maintenance savings, though the upfront cost is a thing. Used prices have dropped significantly though (I overpaid big time sadly). Lastly, the driving experience is sublime. Due to the batteries being low, the center of gravity makes my car feel like it's on rails. Honestly, depending on the maturity of your son with how sporty EVs are, that would be a my biggest hesitation. I did dumb **** in cars in my early 20s, thankfully they were fairly junky late 80s/early 90s VWs. I can't imagine if I had a rocket ship like my model 3.
 
A side effect that's now coming to light -- and may counter some of the "sustainability" argument -- is the enormous wear and tear on tires. This results in greater use of tires and greater rubber remnants and residue on the road. It's tied to the weight of EVs -- about 1/3 more. See the recent WSJ article about this.

Not looking to get into a debate, whether environmental or political. Simply sharing another perspective. Everything involves tradeoffs.
 
A side effect that's now coming to light -- and may counter some of the "sustainability" argument -- is the enormous wear and tear on tires. This results in greater use of tires and greater rubber remnants and residue on the road. It's tied to the weight of EVs -- about 1/3 more. See the recent WSJ article about this.

Not looking to get into a debate, whether environmental or political. Simply sharing another perspective. Everything involves tradeoffs.
Totally true and an environmental counterpoint I bring up in my dissertation! In aggregate EVs seem to still be an environmental benefit, but this is a valid concern. I enjoyed my acceleration way too much at first and murdered my tires, haha. Now I drive much more gently because I want to avoid that cost as well.
 
I enjoyed my acceleration way too much at first and murdered my tires, haha. Now I drive much more gently because I want to avoid that cost as well.
Bolting off the line seems to epidemic among Tesla drivers. The likely issue: "Because I can." 🫣😬🙄

@USNA_STEM_Prof, yours is the most balanced and thoughtful review of EVs I've read recently. I'm not there yet. But then again, I'm a classic "late adopter." (It does say something that EVs/hybrids account for less than 5% of cars in the U.S. The EV/hybrid makers have much work to do to make the option more attractive, beyond simply lowering prices.)
 
As a two time Mustang owner, I cried blasphemy when Ford changed the Mustang's appearance and made it electric. I however have evolved and would at least like to drive one and maybe own one.

My wife drives a hybrid Rav 4 which gets 43 MPG in local driving and 36ish on the highway. Filling its 12 gallon tank is much more infrequent and cheaper than filling my pickup.
 
Bolting off the line seems to epidemic among Tesla drivers. The likely issue: "Because I can." 🫣😬🙄

@USNA_STEM_Prof, yours is the most balanced and thoughtful review of EVs I've read recently. I'm not there yet. But then again, I'm a classic "late adopter." (It does say something that EVs/hybrids account for less than 5% of cars in the U.S. The EV/hybrid makers have much work to do to make the option more attractive, beyond simply lowering prices.)
I would politely replace "because I can" with "because it's fun." :D But again, I was always into fast cars. I'm also a tech nerd, so the fusion of technology and automotive performance is tailor made for me.

Thank you for the complement. They're a nascent technology and certainly not for everyone. If someone tows (boating, horses, etc), I'd wave them away from EVs big time. For a daily commuter that is fun, safe, and can save money long term, I'd strongly recommend one. We're a split family, my wife has a Subaru Outback 3.6. So for certain uses her car makes sense, but the Tesla is our primary car due to savings and fun.

It saddens me how politicized they've become, but such is a current political environment.
 
One item that many EV owners and supports mention is how they don't have to spend any money on gas, but many do not mention that the cost of a EV is much more expensive than a comparable gas vehicle. This means it takes several years before you are actually "saving" any money on purchasing fuel. The batteries also will need to be replaced (8 years for Tesla), so that is a consideration when buying a used model. They batteries are actually pretty expensive.


I drive about 40,000 miles all over my state and most states that are close, so a EV is not realistic for me. For someone that can afford a at home charger that just commutes locally I think it can work. Especially if they want the newest and coolest technology. If they have charges at your work, then it can make even more sense.

I just think arguments that EV's save you money is alittle disingenuous because the savings are long term and alot less once you add everything together. Especially if tax breaks are required to give you savings. They will eventually go away.
 
I just think arguments that EV's save you money is alittle disingenuous because the savings are long term and alot less once you add everything together. Especially if tax breaks are required to give you savings. They will eventually go away.
Absolutely, yes -- it's a long term savings. That said, the article you shared is from 2022 during the height of EV price increases. While there still is a premium for buying one, it's come down a lot since the 2022 peak (which is when my family added our second kid and we really needed a second car, so I bought a used model 3 :eek:).

I would politely disagree with the eight years figure for battery replacement, baring exceedingly high annual driving miles such as your case. Many engineering tests show EV batteries lasting well into 300k miles with minimal range degradation. For a more typical 15k mile/year, that's 20 years. Of course, data shows that people typically don't keep their cares that long, replacing them, on average, between 6-10 years. So the cost-benefit analysis comes down to saving fuel and maintenance costs in the time horizon one expects to own the car for.

Like most things, it varies person to person.
 
One item that many EV owners and supports mention is how they don't have to spend any money on gas, but many do not mention that the cost of a EV is much more expensive than a comparable gas vehicle.
EV owners are, fairly IMO, frequently seeing higher registration costs. We don't buy gas and don't pay fuel taxes, which support road maintenance. My registration in VA was 4x that of my wife's Subaru, the intent of which is to pay my share for road maintenance. This is another consideration and hidden EV cost, albeit smaller in the grand scheme.
 
As a two time Mustang owner, I cried blasphemy when Ford changed the Mustang's appearance and made it electric. I however have evolved and would at least like to drive one and maybe own one.

My wife drives a hybrid Rav 4 which gets 43 MPG in local driving and 36ish on the highway. Filling its 12 gallon tank is much more infrequent and cheaper than filling my pickup.
We have the hybrid RAV 4 as a “barn car” and “dog car.” Great mileage.

I am open to full EV further down the road when logistics and other drive-style elements advance a little further to a new norm. I happily consume auto reviews and hang out on “car people” sites.

Full disclosure, I always have a manual performance car in the garage, since my first Ensignmobile, and enjoy that as a carefully managed pleasure. I have driven the higher-end Teslas and the acceleration is indeed magical. I am just not ready to deal with power management tasks yet.
 
I would politely disagree with the eight years figure for battery replacement, baring exceedingly high annual driving miles such as your case. Many engineering tests show EV batteries lasting well into 300k miles with minimal range degradation. For a more typical 15k mile/year, that's 20 years. Of course, data shows that people typically don't keep their cares that long, replacing them, on average, between 6-10 years. So the cost-benefit analysis comes down to saving fuel and maintenance costs in the time horizon one expects to own the car for.
https://cars.usnews.com/cars-trucks/advice/how-long-do-ev-batteries-last 100,000 miles to 200,000 miles (8-10 years)

https://www.evconnect.com/blog/how-long-does-an-electric-car-battery-last 100,000 miles 8 years

https://blog.evbox.com/ev-battery-longevity 15-20 years Very EV vehicle focused publication.

https://www.progressive.com/lifelanes/on-the-road/electric-car-battery-life/ 10,000 miles 8 years

Average mileage in America is 15,000 miles a year.

This isn't a big deal to me, so I am not dying on this hill so to speak. That being said, Engineering tests under perfect conditions to test the length a battery will last does not always correlate to real world conditions. Time and temps are the biggest killers to any battery, and it is difficult to test time without actually taking the time to do it. The first Tesla's did not come out until 2012, so we haven't been 20 years yet. Batteries in EV vehicles being replaced has already started to occur

Will battery replacements take longer than 8 years....fine. Is it 20 years....I don't think so. 10 is likely a more realistic number I would say.

As far as price comparison. 2024 Tesla 3 $39,000. 2024 Toyota Camry $29,000. So you need to save $10,000 in fuel before offsetting the price difference of the Tesla. So if a owner keeps the car for 6-10 years. They might have a few year window of savings before the potential of a battery replacement is possible. Plus what is the value of a used EV after that time?


Again... I am all for someone driving what they want. You want a EV, then get a EV. You want a huge SUV then go for it. I just don't love to hear from EV people that everyone should drive a EV because they are so much cheaper and better. That is just not really true. EV's have some great benefits. Quiet, technology, air pollution levels, performance, and I think they look cool. Saving money is just not one of them.
 
Last edited:
Haven't owned an EV but have driven hybrid vehicles in the past. The combination of a high capacity battery that increases range in conjunction with the typical gas engine seems like a better choice. However, 'hybrid' is also a marketing term used by various car companies so you have to know what you are buying. Each car company tries to maximize the benefits of their particular hybrid configuration. How far can you drive on battery alone is something to consider when comparing various hybrid models. Have to 'run the numbers' on any of these vehicles to see if the savings are really there for how you drive.

Lack of a national charging standard and established infrastructure is a BIG deal when driving out of town/on vacation/etc. with an EV. Personally, I think more effort should have been put into that upfront if you truly wanted to make these more viable for everyone. Limited range and long recharge times need to be considered. EV tires do tend to wear faster since they are those 'low rolling resistance' tires to help improve range. Many companies now sell EV's so if you are really interested in one, a pricey Tesla isn't your only choice so you need to check out the various available models and what works for you in your price range.

Home charging is faster if you get a higher voltage connection installed (much like for an electric clothes dryer). In some older homes, your current electrical service may not be sufficient to permit adding additional circuits. Good to know that ahead of time to avoid surprises. Charging off of a standard 120V cord can take a LONG time.

All other rechargeable batteries I am familiar with tend to degrade faster if you consistently try to use those higher voltage chargers to reduce recharge times. Not seen many articles on that relating to lithium batteries. They are expensive to replace and there are a lot of unknowns relating to how the used car prices for EV's will work. How long the battery lasts in real world conditions maybe a lot different from the controlled environment of a lab. Range is also reduced when driving in very hot/cold climates. Doubt anyone wants to buy a used EV and then shortly after that realize they need to spend $15,000 on a new battery. Most used car dealers already have shady reputations, so buying a used EV would be in the category of 'buyer beware'.......... Many companies selling EV's talk about the AVERAGE number of miles people drive which is a misleading use of that statistic. What is the MAXIMUM number of miles you will ever drive in the time you own your EV is more meaningful since you have to consider range/time to recharge and the availability of working/compatible charging stations.

Which type of vehicle is better for the environment seems to depend on who you ask and what their agenda is. There are already some parts of the country where we use more electricity on the hottest days then we can produce, so where all of the added electricity to charge EV's will come from is an open question. Mining of lithium uses a LOT of water and in places out west where deposits exist, there are already places where water shortages are an issue. Feasibility of recycling of lithium batteries is also a big question mark. Articles I have seen indicate the other parts of the battery are being recycled but they haven't yet found a practical/cost effective way to recycle the lithium. I think to do a valid comparison you have to look at the TOTAL lifecycle and not just cherry pick certain pieces of the puzzle.
 
Back
Top