The Gunsmith Thread

www.nbcnews.com

Alec Baldwin shoots prop gun, killing 1, injuring another on set'

The film's director of photography, Halyna Hutchins, was killed and director Joel Souza was injured on the set in New Mexico.
www.nbcnews.com www.nbcnews.com

Hard to believe, after Brandon Lee in 1993. I simply cannot imagine how stupid the armorer has to be, to allow this to happen.
They talk about "projectile" but you don't need a projectile to kill someone. The pressure from a blank will do it, if it's close enough.

If Baldwin was screwing around with the prop gun, then where was the Armorer? If I was there, I would have taken it out of his hand and slapped him. Hard.
 
THParent said:
www.nbcnews.com

Alec Baldwin shoots prop gun, killing 1, injuring another on set'

The film's director of photography, Halyna Hutchins, was killed and director Joel Souza was injured on the set in New Mexico.
www.nbcnews.com www.nbcnews.com

Hard to believe, after Brandon Lee in 1993. I simply cannot imagine how stupid the armorer has to be, to allow this to happen.
They talk about "projectile" but you don't need a projectile to kill someone. The pressure from a blank will do it, if it's close enough.

If Baldwin was screwing around with the prop gun, then where was the Armorer? If I was there, I would have taken it out of his hand and slapped him. Hard.
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With today's special effects, I just can't understand why blanks are even needed.

The #1 rule in gun safety is to treat every gun as if it was loaded. Another biggie is to never pull the trigger without knowing your target and beyond. Hollywood has been breaking these safety rules forever. All in the name of 'entertainment.'
 
THParent said:
They talk about "projectile" but you don't need a projectile to kill someone. The pressure from a blank will do it, if it's close enough.
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Still trying to figure out what happened...early report said blank gun, but the persons shot weren't actors on the set ...there had to be some projectile. What were they doing with life ammo on a move set ?

Also, what the he!! is a prop gun, or a stage gun --if it shoots bullets, its a gun !

I may be fast to judgment, but guns don't kill people --stupid people kill people.
 
Sounds like the armorer was at fault. No excuse for a projectile being in the gun. It is very possible that he will be charged with some form of criminal negligence.
 
“Typically, the firing of a gun on a film set requires a team of team of people signing off, including propmasters, safety officers, special effects technicians and stunt coordinators. On Friday morning, Indiewire reported that IATSE Local 44, the union that represents prop masters, sent an email to its members saying that the gun used to kill Hutchins contained “a live round,” and that the production’s propmaster was not a member of Local 44. (In a phone call, a representative for Local 44 declined to comment.)”

The production company may have liability for hiring an un-qualified propmaster. (Although not being a member of the union does not necessarily mean the prop master was un/qualified)
 
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I was just thinking, can you imagine how many rounds were fired in the making of Band of Brothers, with no one getting killed (at least not that I heard of”), not to mention explosions and pyrotechnics!
 
The more I hear about this story, the more I think about the legal consequences. I do not think for a moment that Alec Baldwin had any intention of killing anyone. But he did pull the trigger with these people in the direction of the muzzle. Was it during the filming of a scene? If not, why did he pull the trigger? Nobody should ever pull a trigger, or even put their finger on the trigger, unless they expect the firearm to fire. It very well could be considered negligent homicide.

And then there is the sabatoge theory. Did someone intentionally put in a live round to cause chaos? I know that sounds like an old Murder She Wrote plot, but it could very well be possible...

The bottom line is, a woman died. Negligence or outright criminal activity made this happen. I hope the investigation is thorough. She deserves it.
 
brewmeist said:
The more I hear about this story, the more I think about the legal consequences. I do not think for a moment that Alec Baldwin had any intention of killing anyone. But he did pull the trigger with these people in the direction of the muzzle. Was it during the filming of a scene? If not, why did he pull the trigger? Nobody should ever pull a trigger, or even put their finger on the trigger, unless they expect the firearm to fire. It very well could be considered negligent homicide.

And then there is the sabatoge theory. Did someone intentionally put in a live round to cause chaos? I know that sounds like an old Murder She Wrote plot, but it could very well be possible...

The bottom line is, a woman died. Negligence or outright criminal activity made this happen. I hope the investigation is thorough. She deserves it.
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There is no way in the world Baldwin will be charged with negligent homicide. He reasonably believed he was handling a prop gun loaded with blanks. The armorer on the other hand, that’s an open question.

Since Baldwin isn’t an elected official or member of our armed services, I would like to add that Baldwin is a complete tool and I wish there was a case for negligent homicide. I find it ironic that his prop gun has killed more people than the hundreds, maybe thousands of guns owned by the people on this site.
 
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Korab said:
There is no way in the world Baldwin will be charged with negligent homicide. He reasonably believed he was handling a prop gun loaded with blanks. The armorer on the other hand, that’s an open wiuestion.

since Baldwin isn’t an elected official or member of our armed services, I would like to add that Baldwin is a complete tool and I wish there was a case for negligent homicide.
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I agree that there is no way Baldwin will be charged with anything. He was doing what he was supposed to do - - pretend to shoot someone. The negligence is on the part of the armorer and possibly the production company that hired the armorer (if, for example, they hired an armorer without proper qualifications.) But civil litigation more likely than criminal charges against anyone.
 
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Just saw discussion about this on a news show. I was wondering why non-actor would have been injured, since they were filming.

According to this prop master interviewed, his sources said it was a live round. And it sounds like it was a cinematographic shot of a live round in the chamber.

That makes ‘sense’…or ‘explains’ the situation….to me. The cinematographer was filming the shot, that fired the live round, piercing her and going through to the other photographer behind her.


He also said that it was the director of the film that gave Alec the gun.

So many layers of mistakes here, which is often the case with accidents….

Im with @brewmeist above. In this day and age, why is a blank even needed? Those can also harm! What a senseless tragedy. I cannot imagine witnessing that.
 
I find it ironic that Alec Baldwin, who is proudly an "anti-gun" person, violated all three NRA safe gun handling rules. He is probably like most anti-gun folks and knows nothing about guns, nor does he care to learn about the safe handling of them. It's surely someone else's job (The Armorer) in this case to make sure everyone is safe, isn't it? I won't argue that overall safety here fell to the Armorer, but the actor is an idiot and requires some blame.

When you point a gun at the director of photography and pull the trigger, I'm thinking it's not part of the movie and you're not filming. So why did he do it? Take the safety of the set and the Armorer not doing their due diligence out of the equation. Why did he point a gun at someone - while not filming a scene - and pull the trigger?

If there are charges, they should include Baldwin. He would get through unscathed I'm sure, but he should still face charges for negligence. No prosecutor in Californina is going to indict Alec Baldwin, however.
 
I simply cannot imagine a "a cinematographic shot of a live round in the chamber" ever occurring on a movie set.
I reload ammunition and it's very easy to make a dummy round that looks like a live round.
The only trick is making an inert primer to press into the case head.

Case.
No Powder.
Bullet.
Fake Primer.

A fake primer can be a spent primer flattened out and re-inserted, or a primer that you have previously ignited outside of the case so that there's no dent in it. Or you can cut a piece of brass rod and glue it in the primer pocket and polish it. Either way, it is exceedingly easy to do.
 
THParent said:
I find it ironic that Alec Baldwin, who is proudly an "anti-gun" person, violated all three NRA safe gun handling rules. He is probably like most anti-gun folks and knows nothing about guns, nor does he care to learn about the safe handling of them. It's surely someone else's job (The Armorer) in this case to make sure everyone is safe, isn't it? I won't argue that overall safety here fell to the Armorer, but the actor is an idiot and requires some blame.

When you point a gun at the director of photography and pull the trigger, I'm thinking it's not part of the movie and you're not filming. So why did he do it? Take the safety of the set and the Armorer not doing their due diligence out of the equation. Why did he point a gun at someone - while not filming a scene - and pull the trigger?

If there are charges, they should include Baldwin. He would get through unscathed I'm sure, but he should still face charges for negligence. No prosecutor in Californina is going to indict Alec Baldwin, however.
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I somewhat disagree. The normal rules about firearm safety do not apply to movie sets. The actors are SUPPOSED to point guns at each other. Maybe not in every scene and we do not really know what this scene called for exactly. But pointing guns and shooting them are all part of the process of filming a movie. This has been going on in Hollywood for a hundred years. Negligence is breach of a legal duty to use reasonable care in doing something. What legal duty did Alec Baldwin breach? If you are going to say that he had a legal duty not to point a gun at anyone on the set, then I am going to have to disagree with that.
 
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The point I was trying to convey is that it wasn't during a scene. The Director of Photography wasn't an actor.
 
THParent said:
The point I was trying to convey is that it wasn't during a scene. The Director of Photography wasn't an actor.
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We don’t know exactly what happened yet. A lot a partial bits of info. released. I bet John Wayne would not be so quick to condemn Alec Baldwin (even though he would have hated his politics.)
 
This is true, but I'm not John Wayne. ;)
 
THParent said:
I simply cannot imagine a "a cinematographic shot of a live round in the chamber" ever occurring on a movie set.
I reload ammunition and it's very easy to make a dummy round that looks like a live round.
The only trick is making an inert primer to press into the case head.

Case.
No Powder.
Bullet.
Fake Primer.

A fake primer can be a spent primer flattened out and re-inserted, or a primer that you have previously ignited outside of the case so that there's no dent in it. Or you can cut a piece of brass rod and glue it in the primer pocket and polish it. Either way, it is exceedingly easy to do.
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My post didn’t read correctly with the ‘live round’ piece. It should read, as that was what ultimately OCCURRED, since it ended up BEING a live round. Not necessarily what was called for in the script. Just clarifying that point.

All of which is dumb. Like you pointed out. Bc there are ways to get that shot WITHOUT using a real bullet.

And who know…remains to be seen what actual events occurred. Im still intrigued with the union walk off, unhappy props department piece.

Time will tell, and I hope they can get to the bottom of what happened. It’s shocking!
 
Of course the Union was very quick to say that the Armorer didn't belong to the Union. We're good! This is why you don't hire scabs!

Too soon?
 
By the way, I have seen movies (don’t remember which ones - - maybe “Hondo”with John Wayne) where a person pointed a revolver at someone and the person at which the revolver was pointed looked at the cylinder and noticed that the revolver had some empty chambers. So conversly, there could be a reason in a script to show a dummy projectile in a cylinder.
 
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