the importance of the reputation of a major in a college

It appears from JAM, who is very in tune to the Army, that they are now going to start to take the AF/Navy approach of placing emphasis on particular majors.
 
Pima,

this is getting a bit like a sorority fight, but I am a bit puzzled by what appears to be rather judgmental and condescending tone of yours. Furthermore, all this is done NOT because I have been rude or insulting to others on this forum, but because you disapprove of the way I operate in my family vis a vis my own child.

I have explained numerous times that my son makes all the key decisions and I am supplying additional data points for him to consider as a consultant. If you insist that that is not the case, and I am this helicopter parent hell bent on molding my son to my ideal and refusing to let go of him, there is nothing further that I can say. Obviously you know something about this family that we have no idea what you are talking about. Please understand that different families operate on different wavelength, and there is such a thing as a VERY INVOLVED parent who nonetheless lets the child make all the key decision. If you have never seen this model work, well, then, what can I say.... (by the way, I have been COMPLETELY hands off when it comes to my son's school work, future career choice, ECs, time management, choice of friends, clubs, and what not)

Just suffices to say, this is not my first child. With first kid whose desired path (corporate world) is something that I am intimately familiar with, I am operating more or less as a career mentor to him. For instance, he comes to me with questions on how best to contact an influential alum for a summer job, and I advise him on the best opening moves, etc. He discusses his graduate school options, and I help him chart his course, because I have done exactly that twenty some years ago, and I know how the industry operates in his chosen field. In my career, I have always played a role of a mentor to promising young people, and I am doing the same for my own son.

Now, for my second son, I knew nothing about his chosen path, and I am making a lot of effort to learn as much as I can so that I can be on the same wavelength with him, so that I can advise him intelligently, so that I can understand what he will be going through, so that I can see where I can bring value. He has a parent with decades of life experience in a professional world who is very good at putting together a long term strategy given the right and enough data. So, it will be a shame if he does not benefit from that, won't it?

It so happens that I have great relationship with both of my kids and they are very receptive to consultation and advice I provide to them. They don't take it as a "forcing", they take it as a good source of useful advice. And, as limited as their life experience has been, they have had ample opportunities to verify that I actually give them very good advice that made a huge difference and they are mature enough to value it. And, I am happy to be a useful adult mentor to my kids, not just as a parent

I don't think this is such an aberrant behavior as a parent to receive such a public scorn.

I have seen your posts and you are very helpful, and I thank you for them. I am sure you will continue to make excellent posts and I will continue to benefit from your wisdom. However, we all can have a bit less stressful discussion if there are not so many judgmental and condescending statements casually dished out at others with different style and modus of operandi.

You are a very influential voice on this forum, so your tone carries a lot of weight. it would be great if your tone is a bit kinder and less judgmental so people can freely exchange thoughts and ideas without running the risk of being ridiculed publicly. Please note that for every question I raise here, there may be a few or many more who may have had a same question but did not, for whatever reason, raise it, but benefited nonetheless from the ensuing discussion and replies. (I get PMs to this effect).

Overall this forum has been a life saver. And, you are an amazing source of information, wisdom, and experience. I hope to continue to benefit from your good will in sharing all that you know with us the clueless. Meanwhile, I will do my best to contribute to this community by sharing what little I know. I made a point of posting whatever I learned through my own research on this forum, and I will continue to do so. It's only fair that I do my share of making this forum a very helpful place for those who will go through this process next time.
 
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I was told by several PMS's that the final OML to decide branch, AD/reserves, etc gives no 'weight' or benefits to which school/major programthat is the most 'rigorous'. They told me that I could go to the hardest/most academically challenging school I could and exited with a GPA of 3.1. Even if I had almost killed myself for this 3.1 it would be on a level playing field(as in my 3.1 would receive no extra OML points because my school was 'rigorous'.) with the 3.95 from the 'easiest' school in the country. So from a statistical approach, a 'hard' school would be almost hurting your Army potential:rolleyes:
If one really wanted to be on the top of the OML, he or she could go to a community college that is a cross town affiliate to maintain a 4.0 and then go to a "easy" for the next two years. At this point, the Army just looks at the straight number.

PS-I'm an IR major. You'll realize there's alot of us in AROTC.
 
mtnman17 - I believe the 'bump' is quite small. Don't worry the Army still wants liberal arts majors.

Pima - I don't think it will be to the extent of AF and Navy. More to encourage kids in STEM majors to stick with it.

educateme - I am standing next to Pima on this one. Pima = :thumb:
take a deep breath and relax. Now go back and re-read all your posts in this thread (and others). Read what you write and how you come across.
You claim that your son is making all the decisions but you need to know every single minute detail so you can assist him as his 'consultant'. sheesh - that is the very definition of 'helicopter' parent.
Knowing all the 'data points' and trying to game the system won't increase his scholarship or admission chances.

If your son was truly calling the shots, you would sit back and allow him to play out the college admissions/scholarship process. Somehow, it all works out in the end. The way it's supposed to work out.
 
Pima,

this is getting a bit like a sorority fight, but I am a bit puzzled by what appears to be rather judgmental and condescending tone of yours. Furthermore, all this is done NOT because I have been rude or insulting to others on this forum, but because you disapprove of the way I operate in my family vis a vis my own child.

I have explained numerous times that my son makes all the key decisions and I am supplying additional data points for him to consider as a consultant. If you insist that that is not the case, and I am this helicopter parent hell bent on molding my son to my ideal and refusing to let go of him, there is nothing further that I can say. Obviously you know something about this family that we have no idea what you are talking about. Please understand that different families operate on different wavelength, and there is such a thing as a VERY INVOLVED parent who nonetheless lets the child make all the key decision. If you have never seen this model work, well, then, what can I say.... (by the way, I have been COMPLETELY hands off when it comes to my son's school work, future career choice, ECs, time management, choice of friends, clubs, and what not)

Just suffices to say, this is not my first child. With first kid whose desired path (corporate world) is something that I am intimately familiar with, I am operating more or less as a career mentor to him. For instance, he comes to me with questions on how best to contact an influential alum for a summer job, and I advise him on the best opening moves, etc. He discusses his graduate school options, and I help him chart his course, because I have done exactly that twenty some years ago, and I know how the industry operates in his chosen field. In my career, I have always played a role of a mentor to promising young people, and I am doing the same for my own son.

Now, for my second son, I knew nothing about his chosen path, and I am making a lot of effort to learn as much as I can so that I can be on the same wavelength with him, so that I can advise him intelligently, so that I can understand what he will be going through, so that I can see where I can bring value. He has a parent with decades of life experience in a professional world who is very good at putting together a long term strategy given the right and enough data. So, it will be a shame if he does not benefit from that, won't it?

It so happens that I have great relationship with both of my kids and they are very receptive to consultation and advice I provide to them. They don't take it as a "forcing", they take it as a good source of useful advice. And, as limited as their life experience has been, they have had ample opportunities to verify that I actually give them very good advice that made a huge difference and they are mature enough to value it. And, I am happy to be a useful adult mentor to my kids, not just as a parent

I don't think this is such an aberrant behavior as a parent to receive such a public scorn.

I have seen your posts and you are very helpful, and I thank you for them. I am sure you will continue to make excellent posts and I will continue to benefit from your wisdom. However, we all can have a bit less stressful discussion if there are not so many judgmental and condescending statements casually dished out at others with different style and modus of operandi.

You are a very influential voice on this forum, so your tone carries a lot of weight. it would be great if your tone is a bit kinder and less judgmental so people can freely exchange thoughts and ideas without running the risk of being ridiculed publicly. Please note that for every question I raise here, there may be a few or many more who may have had a same question but did not, for whatever reason, raise it, but benefited nonetheless from the ensuing discussion and replies. (I get PMs to this effect).

Overall this forum has been a life saver. And, you are an amazing source of information, wisdom, and experience. I hope to continue to benefit from your good will in sharing all that you know with us the clueless. Meanwhile, I will do my best to contribute to this community by sharing what little I know. I made a point of posting whatever I learned through my own research on this forum, and I will continue to do so. It's only fair that I do my share of making this forum a very helpful place for those who will go through this process next time.

Pima I believe that you are just being an informed parent. I too am in a similar situation. My son has also applied for the NROTC scholarship and to the 5 schools. We have not heard back from the selection boards neither. He has heard back from his first choice school and was accepted. The only problem is that it is private and very costly. He has Florida Prepaid and will also get bright futures to help. I can not afford to help a great deal more and he is wanting to take out loans which can add up to over $100, 000. He has applied to instate schools where he can get a full ride with no student loans. He is wanting a degree in Engineering and I couldn't be priouder but I do not want to see him come out of school with such a heavy burden of the loans. When I try to have him weigh alll of the options he gets a little defensive. I realize it is his final descision but I feel that if I do not give him some advice I am failing as a parent. I am hoping that if he also gets accepted to other schools he will consider all of his options. Any one have ideas, I would appreciate it.
 
how about an engineering degree? What good does it do when one is commissioned as an officer. If it can be useful later in a different position, wouldn't it loose some shelf life, given how fast technology is evolving? How about other science fields like biology and chemistry? How about math? Well, does any major matter at all as a career officer? How about a female with an engineering or science degree as an officer? What kind of Army career options are available to her? I understand female officers are not given a combat role...

BTW: My daughter is a high school junior with an ROTC scholarship in mind, and I have spent the weekend reading a lot on this forum. Very helpful place. One thing though: can we please refrain from criticizing other people's parenting style? we are all here to learn from each other's experience. Some of us may not agree with the other's parenting priorities, but it's not my place to pass judgment on others on a forum like this: it seems really presumptuous and unproductive. It certainly detracts from the excellent service this forum is providing to all. Just saying.....
 
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..can we please refrain from criticizing other people's parenting style?
I think this request is completely unreasonable. How else are we to know what a great job other parents have done with their children? Personally I am so impressed with the parenting critiquing on this site that I am considering posting intimate details of my sex life (including pics) in hopes of receiving some equally valuable advice. Just saying...:cool:
 
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Pima I believe that you are just being an informed parent. I too am in a similar situation. My son has also applied for the NROTC scholarship and to the 5 schools. We have not heard back from the selection boards neither. He has heard back from his first choice school and was accepted. The only problem is that it is private and very costly. He has Florida Prepaid and will also get bright futures to help. I can not afford to help a great deal more and he is wanting to take out loans which can add up to over $100, 000. He has applied to instate schools where he can get a full ride with no student loans. He is wanting a degree in Engineering and I couldn't be priouder but I do not want to see him come out of school with such a heavy burden of the loans. When I try to have him weigh alll of the options he gets a little defensive. I realize it is his final descision but I feel that if I do not give him some advice I am failing as a parent. I am hoping that if he also gets accepted to other schools he will consider all of his options. Any one have ideas, I would appreciate it.

Gatorgirl: We were in a similar situation with my son, including he was not accepted to his #1 school so we had to request transfer of the scholarship and as of the date that he had to accept his university offer of admission (1 May) we were unsure that the scholarship would transfer. We told him we would give him one year at the school he selected and if the scholarship didn't transfer or he didn't receive a 3 year scholarship, he would have to move back home and go to our local state school (which he described as 13th grade :frown: ). You must tell your son what you can afford, then let him make the decisions he needs to make.

For everyone: Please remember that this is all a process. Decisions are made, adjustments are made, majors are changed, medical problems happen, etc. endlessly throughout their college years and their careers. Some will get scholarships, some won't; some will succeed in college, some won't; some will be happy in active duty careers and stay until they retire, some won't. Some of our sons and daughters may end up paying the ultimate sacrifice for this college education they may be offered. If you can accept all that, it makes the changes that happen along the way so much easier to accept. I know my son's O-Week for NROTC, they had six kids quit. Six kids...quit...in the first six days of the program (granted it was August at Quantico, but it happens). My point is that you can do everything you can to optimize the chances for your kid to get the scholarship, get into a great program, be at the top of the OML, get his or her career choice and still something may happen and they are out. Don't sweat the small stuff....just let the process work. :D
 
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Goodness - folks can parent as they please. Kids are kids and mostly they will be all right - regardless. If parents want to reduce their child's future to a 'business' decision that is certainly their preogative.

It's not the asking of questions per se but the continual suppositions that are places before this forum in an effort to 'game' the system. The system however, is in a constant state of flux and not easily gamed.
I also object to folks making 'conclusions' on this forum that are not fact based - Oh and don't ask a question and then criticize the answer!!

Centhea is absolutely correct - that this is a process. It is a process that could continue on for many months yet.

Gatorgirl - I fully understand your situation and your angst. One suggestion I have for you and your son is to build a spreadsheet. Put on all the colleges he applied for, breakdown their cost - tuition, room, board etc.
List any merit scholarships he is offered. Apply for Financial Aid - when the offers come in list all the grants and Subsidized loans. If he is awarded an NROTC scholarship, put that on it too. The total out of pocket cost will become clear. Multiply that by 4 and add 10% each year.
Kids cannnot borrow $100,000 on their own for college. There are limits to borrowing without a co-signer and no one can force a parent to co-sign.


thisandthat - you also raise some excellent questions. If your daughter is a high school junior then it's great she (and you) are starting young!
If there is a local college with a ROTC unit - I suggest you call them and see if you can arrange a short meeting to discuss ROTC and Army Careers. This is a great place to start.
 
I think this request is completely unreasonable. How else are we to know what a great job other parents have done with their children? Personally I am so impressed with the parenting critiquing on this site that I am considering posting intimate details of my sex life (including pics) in hopes of receiving some equally valuable advice. Just saying...:cool:

aglages,

I think you are onto something there...
Maybe a new forum, 'How to sire a sir"?:biggrin:
 
Ag, here's my advice without having pictures, Give your wife an aspirin with dinner so she won't have a headache later on :jump1:

Now, 1st off educate, the problem with forums like these is you are not doing it in real time, so a lot gets lost or confused in the message.

Everyone, absolutely everyone, gets your angst. We have all lived it before and as I stated before, this is just the 1st of many boards that your DS will meet in life. Currently, in our family we are sitting on our own hands waiting for a board to meet to determine the career field for our DS.

My point, is that you will soon be shut out of his life because of the system. Bullet served 21 yrs AD and he would be the 1st to tell you that the AF he retired from 2 yrs ago is not the same AF our DS is entering.

It was my intention to say, that even if your intentions are the best, your hands are tied. You may want to comprehend the system, but none of us sit on the boards. All of us have kids going to different colleges, with different majors wanting different career fields in different branches. There is no blanket statement that anyone can give on which school or which battalion. Just as there will be issues that may arise for him, which will be really centric to his world.

I understand that you want to be informed of every possible situation, like a spreadsheet, but I still believe at some point you have to let him take over.

As I stated earlier the problem with this system is confusion can occur from the posting manner. It just appeared through your style, that these questions were not so much asking on behalf of your son, but as a manner of deciding for your son and that always makes me apprehensive.

Again, I did not intend to publicly scorn you, I just felt that sometimes, parents forget they raised a great kid and to trust their child to make the right decision for their self. I understand it did not come across that way, but that was my intention. I was probably identical to you 3 yrs., and the valuable lesson I learned was that I wasted too much time worrying about the shoe to drop from the sky and not enough time spending the last yr doing silly things with our DS. I didn't realize that as much as it was on my mind, it was on his too. Only when I went through the college app process with DD did I get the fact that she would be leaving the nest sooner than I wanted, and it would be her life, so for the limited time I had left, I decided to leave it in the fate of the world and accept that wherever she went and whatever she chose to do, she would be just fine. I did not want you to regret wasting the last yr he had home with you on something out of your control. Believe it or not it was meant in a good way.
 
how about an engineering degree? What good does it do when one is commissioned as an officer. If it can be useful later in a different position, wouldn't it loose some shelf life, given how fast technology is evolving? How about other science fields like biology and chemistry? How about math? Well, does any major matter at all as a career officer? How about a female with an engineering or science degree as an officer? What kind of Army career options are available to her? I understand female officers are not given a combat role...

does anybody have input on this questions? I am still waiting.........

RE: the whole thing about critiquing other people's parenting style, etc. I understand the good intention of some people (not all) who seemed rather abrasive and harsh on other people's priorities, style, etc. Perhaps folks who really have the need to "correct" other's parenting mistakes can use the PM feature on this board? This board should be a safe place for people to share their experience and exchange information without being judged constantly.

I may be new to this forum as a poster, but I have been lurking for a while. I have also watched/participated in similar forums with a goal of information exchange. Some become successful while others wither. When the discussion becomes personal, and the tone of the discourse becomes harsh and judgmental, it drives some people away. And some of these people may have had some really good insight and experience that would have benefited a lot of other people. We need more information, not less. So, please, let's refrain from the gratuitously negative, judgmental tone. We are adults. We don't need to do this.
 
Do you think we could put together a "how to" guide and request that it be a sticky?:eek:

We should also have a "how to" guide that could be "How to get the most out of your "Ma'ams" :redface:
 
Except for gaining points with the new system, the Army does not care about your major. Maybe it'll help you in the Army, maybe it won't. I know a ROTC cadet who is majoring in Bible and Theology and got an educational delay for Med School. There's another cadet who is majoring in some kind of Chemistry and got an Educational delay to become a Chaplain. Major does not truly affect your branching. (Unless they are awarding more points for STEM Majors now. )
 
how about an engineering degree? What good does it do when one is commissioned as an officer. If it can be useful later in a different position, wouldn't it loose some shelf life, given how fast technology is evolving? How about other science fields like biology and chemistry? How about math? Well, does any major matter at all as a career officer? How about a female with an engineering or science degree as an officer? What kind of Army career options are available to her? I understand female officers are not given a combat role...

The military has and always will be on the forefront for engineering. Where did the ABS system first come from? Not Honda, but the military. How about satellite technology? Not XM radio, but the military. GPS? Military.

You will not be living in a vacuum, where the military gets new technology after it has hit the commercial market. You will be someone working with it prior to the commercial market.

Majors do not matter, but they become bigger players when it is tied to your career. For example, if you major in foreign language like Chinese or Russian and want to go Intel, it is going to be a plus for you.

In your case it appears you want to major in the science field. The question is what do you want to do? DO you want to work on the design for the next tank or do you want to work on bio research?

There are a lot of options opened for a female, but it will come down to finding out what gets your heart pumping.

The options can range from being an A & F officer due to Math or being in the medical field due to science, and then of course they could say you will be in the PA world and your major had absolutely no impact at all!

Best of luck.
 
thisandthat -
the Army does not care what you major in. There are no specific 'needs' in the Army like there are in the AF and Navy.

My own personal opinion is that kids should major in a subject they like to study. That could be engineering or English. If they are interested they will do well. I don't think STEM degrees ever get 'stale' at least during the first few years post grad. The commitment to serve from Army ROTC is 3-4 years and there is a possibility of grad school and other career choices both in and out of the Army.

The vast majority of jobs in the Army are open to female officers. There are certain branches from which they are restricted and that includes Infantry and Armor. They may not go to Ranger School. They may branch Aviation and fly any helicopter and are only retricted from flying for Special Forces. They may engage in combat while flying.
They may branch Field Artillery but most jobs at the junior officer level are restricted at this time. They may branch Engineers, but are restricted from Combat Engineers.

This sounds like a lot but it really is not. It's easier to list the restricted jobs than the unrestricted jobs. You can go to this website: http://www.goarmy.com/careers-and-jobs/officer-careers-and-specialties.html and get an overview of Army Officer positions.

Honestly, my advice from my previous post still stands. Your daughter (and you) should try and go to a ROTC battalion and talk to an Army Officer. This is where you can have a real dialogue with a career officer who will be more than happy to chew your ear off and offer up excellent advice and perspective.

Understand there are limitations to this forum. Folks on here can only offer their best thoughts from their own experiences and what they have observed here. Come here for support and direction. Sometimes 'direction' is not found here but we attempt to be resourceful and direct folks to the proper channels for their questions.
 
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