Trouble in the 552nd Operations Group?

[USMCGrunt]

Air exercise with tight turnaround, no sleeping pills prompts investigation at Tinker

Airmen clash with 552nd Operations Group commander Col. Gary Donovan.

www.airforcetimes.com

This article shocks me. Overbearing leadership, dissension in the ranks, poor communication, lack of trust, aging platform, career mismanagement, etc. I don't have any experience with flight ops or Air Force units but seems like a real issue here.

The only insight I can give is as a Marine infantry officer. I can assure you my Marines didn't need sleeping pills to take a nap. Day or night, rain or shine, on the ground or in a truck/ helicopter, if they got 5 minutes they were sleeping for 3 of them.

 

[TheRightStuff]

It wasn't an issue of not being able to take a "nap" but was instead about being able to perform safely in flight and the prep that goes into that mission. The article explains the issue very clearly:

*******

AWACS crews in the 552nd Operations Group balked at the mission over flight safety concerns while preparing for training in mid-July. According to the Facebook post, they got ready for the event on July 12 until about 3 p.m. that afternoon, then headed home until they were again summoned at 2 a.m. on July 13 to finish getting ready. Then they were released around 9 a.m. that morning, with a call time 12 hours later to fly at night.

E-3 aircrews typically take 72 hours to pack their bags, prepare the jet and arrive overseas. In this case, they took issue with an unusual 48-hour turnaround that required them to stay up all night and sleep all day ahead of training.

Airmen worried the back-and-forth between homes and the flightline had disrupted their sleep schedules to the point that they would endanger the other crew members in flight. They were urged to treat the exercise as a real operation, but were denied access to sleeping pills to be well-rested as they may have in a true combat scenario.

“It’s not a matter of discipline,” a pilot with the wing told Air Force Times. “If you woke up at 8 a.m. after a full night of sleep, went into work, maybe you drank coffee, and you were told, ‘Go home, show up in 12 hours and be ready to fly,’ you are not going to be able to do that naturally.”

Crews showed up to fly on an average of three to four hours of sleep rather than the eight to 12 hours they are typically afforded, according to the post. People voiced their concerns about being too tired, and the sorties were canceled — a move reportedly backed by the wing’s vice commander, Col. Wayne Frost.

 

[UHBlackhawk]

There might be issues, but social media is not the place to address them.

 

[Wishful]

Another article on this story describes a scene of when the CO stated (paraphrasing) "If you're tired, take a f!#?ing nap!" to a female Aircraft Commander i/f/o her squad after she said that she doesn't feel safe to drive home let alone fly with/23 people on board
DD said it's been the talk at her base. (I can imagine the memes.)

“AFIs are written in someone’s blood from a previous accident.”

Air Force colonel tells crew they failed America because they nixed an unsafe training mission

Col. Gary Donovan of Tinker Air Force Base, expressed his “chasm” of disappointment because a training mission was cancelled last week.

taskandpurpose.com

 

[NJROTC-CC]

Sounds kinda soft to me. Did B-17 crews ever balk at waking up at 3 a.m. to fly 13 hour missions deep into eastern Germany day after day in WWII? No. They didn't. True, we are not at war, but still, this sounds pretty weak to me, but I have no experience in flight operations.

 

[THParent]

I think it's all about perspective.

 

[UHBlackhawk]

Again, this sounds like the “give and take” that normally goes on with commands. Commanders and those being led will often see things in a different light and will discuss the issues. You work them out… behind closed doors.
Many times, both as a commander and a line pilot I’ve faced similar issues. Rest versus mission accomplishment. I’ve had commanders gently push me in the interest of mission accomplishment, and I’ve talked to pilots about possibly pushing in the same interest. Sometimes people even say things that they later regret, but work it out.
Frankly, that appears what happened here. There was some give and take and learning by both sides. That’s why you train. Perhaps the CO got a little “emotional”, but that happens.
You don’t, however, air the dirty laundry. If there are issues with the command that can’t be worked out there are proper channels. Putting this stuff on social media is lame and unprofessional.

 

[raimius]

Sounds kinda soft to me. Did B-17 crews ever balk at waking up at 3 a.m. to fly 13 hour missions deep into eastern Germany day after day in WWII? No. They didn't. True, we are not at war, but still, this sounds pretty weak to me, but I have no experience in flight operations.

We also lost about 10k pilots to training accidents in that war.

..and fatigue was also a primary contributor to 2x Arleigh Burke DDGs smashing into civilian ships and killing multiple crew members.

At a certain point, like say when you had your sleep schedule jerked around for the past 36hrs for an exercise, you need to stand up and say "this is stupid."
Going to social media isn't a great way to deal with things, but if you are dealing with "leadership" that kicks out the safety officer to belittle their crews about making decisions concerning safety and then threatens to force people to fly over the objections of the aircraft commander (in direct violation of AF regs), maybe some alternative avenue is warranted.

 

[UHBlackhawk]

We also lost about 10k pilots to training accidents in that war.

..and fatigue was also a primary contributor to 2x Arleigh Burke DDGs smashing into civilian ships and killing multiple crew members.

At a certain point, like say when you had your sleep schedule jerked around for the past 36hrs for an exercise, you need to stand up and say "this is stupid."
Going to social media isn't a great way to deal with things, but if you are dealing with "leadership" that kicks out the safety officer to belittle their crews about making decisions concerning safety and then threatens to force people to fly over the objections of the aircraft commander (in direct violation of AF regs), maybe some alternative avenue is warranted.

There are alternatives that don’t require the use of social media. Unprofessionalism shouldn’t be met with unprofessionalism.
Heck, for all we know these issues were addressed in a post exercise debrief. After all, that’s why you do these exercises. So everyone- including the COC- can learn.

Edit- I would also add that I’ve been there and got the t-shirt. I’ve been so exhausted after a mission that I fell asleeo under the aircraft waiting for the fuel truck on a hot tarmac. I’ve needed help from my crew chiefs getting out of the aircraft after my 14th day in a row of flying a combat mission. No air conditioning, wearing chicken plate the entire time, 120 degree heat, popping 800mg Motrin before and after each mission. Week after week. Month after month. For an entire year.
I get the importance of crew rest and participated in sometime heated exchanges about the balance of trying to accomplish the mission versus risking the mission with an aircraft mishap. Both as a commander and as a line pilot.
While I’ve shared some of the stories long after the fact it never occurred to me to go outside military channels to complain. We would hash things things out in debriefs, sometimes heated debriefs, then move on with lessons learned.

 

[raimius]

There are alternatives that don’t require the use of social media. Unprofessionalism shouldn’t be met with unprofessionalism.
Heck, for all we know these issues were addressed in a post exercise debrief. After all, that’s why you do these exercises. So everyone- including the COC- can learn.

Agreed that normal internal channels are the way things should be handled. That said, the IG system is widely regarded as broken and people have noticed the way to get rapid results from leadership is provide a lot of public sunlight on their actions.

If the RUMINT is accurate (who knows), the OG/CC kicked out the safety officer prior to going on a rant and telling crews he would force them to fly while disregarding multiple AFI rules (which he does not have authority to do). So, if true, he was going rogue and trying to force crews to disregard sound judgement and violate multiple AFIs...and threw out the officer most likely to professionally tell him he was out of line. So, going public is a logical way to deal with a "leader" purposefully cutting out the internal checks and balances and violating multiple AF and DoD-level regs...and it appears to have worked, forcing the Wing Commander to acknowledge the rules and not force people into illegal flights.

Are there better ways to do that? There should be, but a lot of people don't have faith in the system.

 

[Soldiergriz]

We also lost about 10k pilots to training accidents in that war.

..and fatigue was also a primary contributor to 2x Arleigh Burke DDGs smashing into civilian ships and killing multiple crew members.

At a certain point, like say when you had your sleep schedule jerked around for the past 36hrs for an exercise, you need to stand up and say "this is stupid."
Going to social media isn't a great way to deal with things, but if you are dealing with "leadership" that kicks out the safety officer to belittle their crews about making decisions concerning safety and then threatens to force people to fly over the objections of the aircraft commander (in direct violation of AF regs), maybe some alternative avenue is warranted.

Garbage. Every Commander has an open door policy. Every command has an inspector general.

Use the chain of command and tools provided...they are plentiful and effective.

 

[Soldiergriz]

Agreed that normal internal channels are the way things should be handled. That said, the IG system is widely regarded as broken and people have noticed the way to get rapid results from leadership is provide a lot of public sunlight on their actions.

If the RUMINT is accurate (who knows), the OG/CC kicked out the safety officer prior to going on a rant and telling crews he would force them to fly while disregarding multiple AFI rules (which he does not have authority to do). So, if true, he was going rogue and trying to force crews to disregard sound judgement and violate multiple AFIs...and threw out the officer most likely to professionally tell him he was out of line. So, going public is a logical way to deal with a "leader" purposefully cutting out the internal checks and balances and violating multiple AF and DoD-level regs...and it appears to have worked, forcing the Wing Commander to acknowledge the rules and not force people into illegal flights.

Are there better ways to do that? There should be, but a lot of people don't have faith in the system.

What people? Define a lot. What system?

The truth is: issues are best handled through the chain of command. Period. Hard stop.

Every commander has a commander. They ALL have open door policies, and their emails are in the directory. Many time the senior non-commissioned officer is also well suited to address concerns, and will do so candidly with the commander.

The only thing social media does is make the creator the center of his/her own drama.

Personally, I have zero respect for those who choose that route. Zero.

 

[Small Team Bacsi]

Sounds kinda soft to me. Did B-17 crews ever balk at waking up at 3 a.m. to fly 13 hour missions deep into eastern Germany day after day in WWII? No. They didn't. True, we are not at war, but still, this sounds pretty weak to me, but I have no experience in flight operations.

What combat in VN did for me was minimize my judging of others , when I was not actually there in their boots, dealing with the same issues they were dealing with.

I try to refrain from second guessing from the safety of the cheap seats .

The well over 100 chopper flights my teams were on in VN was my only encounters with flight operations.

But if we would have thought about it , we would always have preferred , the chopper crews flying us , and responsible for our lives, to be well rested, well fed, and generally happy people. We assumed that was standard life when being in the wing.

Did we actually see the wing as soft?

We loved them but we thought a few hour visit to see a friend in the wing stationed at the danang airbase to be R&R for us.


BTW I wonder if security would have been any different for those Marines and Docs at the Marine barracks in Lebanon if those guys had had access to social media before they were blown up?

What if just one or two of those Marines had taken to Facebook to complain about lax security?

and don’t tell me with that many 100s of Marines and Docs at least some who were vets of VN, that some were not complaining about lax security.

 

[UHBlackhawk]

What combat in VN did for me was minimize my judging of others , when I was not actually there in their boots, dealing with the same issues they were dealing with.

I try to refrain from second guessing from the safety of the cheap seats .

The well over 100 chopper flights my teams were on in VN was my only encounters with flight operations.

But if we would have thought about it , we would always have preferred , the chopper crews flying us , and responsible for our lives, to be well rested, well fed, and generally happy people. We assumed that was standard life when being in the wing.

Did we actually see the wing as soft?

We loved them but we thought a few hour visit to see a friend in the wing stationed at the danang airbase to be R&R for us.


BTW I wonder if security would have been any different for those Marines and Docs at the Marine barracks in Lebanon if those guys had had access to social media before they were blown up?

What if just one or two of those Marines had taken to Facebook to complain about lax security?

and don’t tell me with that many 100s of Marines and Docs at least some who were vets of VN, that some were not complaining about lax security.

Complaining 0about lax security on social media is a serious breech of OPSEC and opens up more problems than it solves. Again, I flew combat missions and we did not deal with problems that arose, and every unit has problems, by using social media.

 

[FutureAcademyDad?]

My personal opinion is that social media is more of a curse than a blessing.

But then again, DD2 tells me, I'm a boomer.