ugh... loosing hope

P

psessions

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OK I need honest feedback. Let me know if you agree with my analogy or if I'm off base.
My son was turned down to Ga Tech and Northeastern for early action. I know the Service Academy's is where he really wants to go anyways. As far as academic criteria I would think that the Service Academy's and those two schools look for the same type of student academically. Agree? However, I can't help but feel like there is no way the Service Academy's will accept him if those other two schools didn't. Do you agree with that? I heard GT this year has accepted only 5 percent of out of state students so maybe that has something to do with it. He has a 31 ACT, 4.2 GPA, Varsity Sports, team Co- Captain, NHS and ALOT of Volunteer hours and Leadership. ONe thing I'll point out and you probably know is that the Common App is not even close to the Academy app's. I dont believe the common app really show cases the applicant like the SA applications do.
 
Comparing the two processes is like apples and oranges. I have never been part of a selective university's admission process but something tells me that academics and diversity have the most weight in the process. There have been many legal challenges to the way universities use race as an admissions factor. It is also a National Contest where everyone is competing for a certain number of seats.

The academy uses a completely different process to ensure diversity and it is the nomination process. Their goal is to get a cross-section of the entire country. You son has a nomination from your local MOC. He will only be competing against up to 9 other individuals for an appointment. Someone from your congressional district will get admitted as long as there is one qualified applicant. The academy also weighs Academics, Extracurricular & Leadership, and Physical Fitness. GT did not make him take a PT test as part of his application. There are additional opportunities if you do not win your slate but those are more difficult as now you are competing against everyone else.

I do not know what the competition in your district is, but most districts do not have 10 qualified & strong applicants each year no matter where you live. It is a tough process and it weeds individuals out. You son is most likely competing against a handfull of other similar candidates from your area. If he is fully qualified, Academically, Physically, Medically with a nomination, he has a better than 50-50 chance as you look through previous year's class profiles. I tried to pull Navy's profile from last year and it does not break it down in detail but USMA says it had 2159 candidates fully qualified and nominated and 1240 were admitted.

Don't give up hope yet.
 
One year we had thirteen admitted to USNA from a small state. If you are one of ten from your district MOC and/or Senator (or both) and go into the pool you will not be competing for an appointment against nine but thousands. Loosing out on the charged appointment does not mean you are out, you are still in the running. DD's roommate went to Stanford and her parents said that they could not believe how hard the SA application was. As said stay positive.
 
The Service Academies use a point system where they score each dimension of a candidate's qualifications, so this part of the admissions process is quantitative and indisputable. Other things that come into play are whether or not the candidate is a legacy, grew up in the military, JROTC, their race (for diversity purposes), whether they are a recruited athlete, etc. For example, if you have two candidates that are equally qualified in every category, but one grew up with one or more active duty military parents, then most likely that candidate would be selected over the other candidate without this experience. Military kids are accustomed to the military life and are less likely to drop out because of being home sick (because they grew up in one place) or because they cannot handle the rigors of military life. Sometimes the candidate with the higher GPA or test score isn't a fit for the academies if the SA considers them too big of a drop out risk. The academies invest a lot of money into these cadets before they even start school and their main objective is retention to graduation. They are taking a bigger chance on a candidate with no military background dropping out than with a kid that has lived this life and knows what to expect. The same goes for race in the above example. The SAs try to diversify their cadet population so equal in all other aspects, a minority might be chosen over a non minority. My ex-husband was on the admissions board for one of the SAs and will be returning to the academy in June as a professor so we are lucky that we know the ins and outs of the process. However, we are playing the waiting game as well with our son. He applied to all five academies and for the AROTC and NROTC scholarship. He is waiting on his medical waiver approval to go through for his top choice school. I am ready to be done with all of this so that I can enjoy the last few months with my son before he leaves. College is all we talk about at the moment and we are all sick of it.
 
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The application deadline hasn't even happened yet.
There are thousands of applicants who have fairly good applications, who never receive a nomination.
Now is a little premature to give up hope, but a "Plan B" is always a good idea.

My DS has accepted an Offer of Appointment, but he has NOT turned down the offers from two other colleges.
He will turn them down, but he will wait until May to do that!
 
psessions said:
OK I need honest feedback. Let me know if you agree with my analogy or if I'm off base.
My son was turned down to Ga Tech and Northeastern for early action. I know the Service Academy's is where he really wants to go anyways. As far as academic criteria I would think that the Service Academy's and those two schools look for the same type of student academically. Agree? However, I can't help but feel like there is no way the Service Academy's will accept him if those other two schools didn't. Do you agree with that? I heard GT this year has accepted only 5 percent of out of state students so maybe that has something to do with it. He has a 31 ACT, 4.2 GPA, Varsity Sports, team Co- Captain, NHS and ALOT of Volunteer hours and Leadership. ONe thing I'll point out and you probably know is that the Common App is not even close to the Academy app's. I dont believe the common app really show cases the applicant like the SA applications do.
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Don't ever give up hope! My DS didn't hear from USNA until mid March and USMA until end of April! I have heard of kids being offered an appointment as late as 2 days before I-Day. Hang in there.
 
I doubt many, if any, folks on this site have personal familiarity with the EA programs for GT and NW so very hard to comment on how those programs evaluate students and how that process compares, if it does at all, with the SA selection process. There are students who get into Ivies who don't get into SAs and students who get into USNA but don't get into their top civilian schools. The one thing that is true across the board is that great schools, such as those to which your DS is applying (GT, NW, USNA), are all very selective and they all have more great applicants than they have spots in the entering class.

I've no doubt you and many other similarly situated families are going through some very anxious moments. I wish we could be more encouraging in terms of the outcome. But we can say that what happened with GT and NW has no bearing on what will happen with USNA.

The one thing I always tell seniors and their parents -- focus on the schools that accept you. They looked at everyone who applied and they want you to come to their school. Embrace that and make the most of it -- as maybe that's what was meant to be.
 
QWE123 said:
The Service Academies use a point system where they score each dimension of a candidate's qualifications, so this part of the admissions process is quantitative and indisputable. Other things that come into play are whether or not the candidate is a legacy, grew up in the military, JROTC, their race (for diversity purposes), whether they are a recruited athlete, etc. For example, if you have two candidates that are equally qualified in every category, but one grew up with one or more active duty military parents, then most likely that candidate would be selected over the other candidate without this experience. Military kids are accustomed to the military life and are less likely to drop out because of being home sick (because they grew up in one place) or because they cannot handle the rigors of military life. Sometimes the candidate with the higher GPA or test score isn't a fit for the academies if the SA considers them too big of a drop out risk. The academies invest a lot of money into these cadets before they even start school and their main objective is retention to graduation. They are taking a bigger chance on a candidate with no military background dropping out than with a kid that has lived this life and knows what to expect. The same goes for race in the above example. The SAs try to diversify their cadet population so equal in all other aspects, a minority might be chosen over a non minority. My ex-husband was on the admissions board for one of the SAs and will be returning to the academy in June as a professor so we are lucky that we know the ins and outs of the process. However, we are playing the waiting game as well with our son. He applied to all five academies and for the AROTC and NROTC scholarship. He is waiting on his medical waiver approval to go through for his top choice school. I am ready to be done with all of this so that I can enjoy the last few months with my son before he leaves. College is all we talk about at the moment and we are all sick of it.
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Not quite sure thee yopu are getting your info about the growing up in the military and legacy idea. I would totally disregard this information neither you nor anyone else who does not sit on the admissions board can say exactly what the acadmeies are looking for. USNA's current Sup's family memeber did not get in. The Sup is a Rear Admiral. So please do not attempt to add to the confusion and anxiety all are feeling as this process proceeds. The best advice you gave is to just enjoy the time with your children!!!
 
Top competitive universities are not easy to get in to; especially engineering programs. DS was deferred from U of MI engineering early action; ultimately got in [May] but not til after he accepted USMA appointment. [and UofM is a public school BTW.]

I can assure you however that UofM did not weight the athletic and leadership attributes the same as the 2 SAs DS received appointments to.

Sooooo - don't lose hope; its still early.
 
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The Sup is a Rear Admiral.
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Actually, the Superintendent is a Vice Admiral (3-star).

For example, if you have two candidates that are equally qualified in every category, but one grew up with one or more active duty military parents, then most likely that candidate would be selected over the other candidate without this experience.
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This is also not true. Historically, a candidate with a family tie to the military (sibling, parent) might get a tiny bump in the admissions process. But is was tiny and I've never heard of a situation where that made the difference. With more information available to all candidates via the Internet, NASS, CVW, OpInfo, etc., I'm not sure a candidate with military ties gets any benefit today -- certainly not enough to make the difference. Plenty of legacy kids and kids of military parents are turned down, much to the dismay of their parents.
 
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If you're from a military family you could get the presidential nomination, offering another slate to compete on. I'd imagine that could make a difference for some candidates who don't win their MOC slate, right?
 
If you're from a military family you could get the presidential nomination, offering another slate to compete on. I'd imagine that could make a difference for some candidates who don't win their MOC slate, right?
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Candidates with a Pres nomination have that "additional" slate. For some, it may be the only nom they have. So, yes, if you don't win your MOC slate but are very competitive, you have the chance to secure one of the 100 appointments given to a Pres nominee. Or, if you don't get an MOC nom, you could still be appointed with a Pres nom. There are usually around 700 Pres nominees, so it's still a very competitive pool.

However, there are two slightly different scenarios. The first is: There is this super-qualified candidate who didn't win her MOC slate. She has a Pres nomination, so we can appoint her and charge her to the President. That definitely could happen and thus "benefits" someone who has a parent/guardian with a career of military service. The second scenario is: We have two super-qualified candidates and have only one appointment left. One candidate has a mother who was in the USN and the other has no ties to the military. We're going to give the appointment to the person with the military mom, for this reason alone. To my knowledge, that doesn't happen.
 
There are a bunch of opinions floating around this thread and the FFRs and BGOs have been trying to just give the basic facts.

The admissions process is a fairly objective. There is a scoring system called "WCS" that evaluates all candidates. Each applicant is given a ranking.

There really is no "The academy likes to see" or "This candidate's parents are so and so".

The admissions board does not vote appointment/no appointment like a traditional college. They review the file and do the Academic/ECA qualification.

If the admission's board says qualified, the applicant moves to the next step where they are evaluated against others on their nomination slate.

You must have a nomination and be fully qualified(3Q, Academic/ECA, Physical, Medical) to be offered an appointment.

A parent's military service is not used in the WCS calculation.

A parent's military service may qualify an applicant for a Presidential Nomination.

Multiple nominations give an applicant more chances to compete for an appointment.

The ratio of fully qualified candidates to appointments across nomination sources is not that different. The lowest ratio is for active/reserve soldiers. The below chart is from USNA's 2021 class profile.

Hope that helps clear the air.


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My kid got turned down by UCSD (Cal SanDiego) and a bunch of other schools; ALL COMMON APP.. She was offered a spot at every school that she applied to without Common App.. Either she didn't check the right box somewhere on the Common App form, or Common App is a little screwy. If your son has the chops to pull a USNA nomination, Id think he'd swing GT (???).

DD is CL2020.

No News=Good News
 
^^Maybe.

But, EA process favors in-state applicants by a very wide margin at Ga Tech. Probably more true for regular decision.
 
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