USAF vs USN. Help!

Sounds like you’re making a well informed decision. It’s interesting that you feel the Academy is better suited to you personally to help you be a leader. If the structure is what will help you then maybe that’s the better decision. My three kids are all good leaders but thrived in the AFROTC structure. Good luck and good on you for all the research you’re doing!
 
Who is qualified and who is not gets to be a big deal in the Navy. Don't count on getting a stateroom, lounging about in the wardroom, or generally being treated too seriously by officers and enlisted alike for a while.

It's not uncommon for a JO on a smaller ship to find themselves sleeping in berthing with the rest of the enlisted Sailors and eating on the messdecks because more senior officers have filled the wardroom during meal hours.

There are also a number of time-honored traditions for the most junior officer aboard. It's almost like being a Plebe again.
 
nuensis said:
Who is qualified and who is not gets to be a big deal in the Navy. Don't count on getting a stateroom, lounging about in the wardroom, or generally being treated too seriously by officers and enlisted alike for a while.

It's not uncommon for a JO on a smaller ship to find themselves sleeping in berthing with the rest of the enlisted Sailors and eating on the messdecks because more senior officers have filled the wardroom during meal hours.

There are also a number of time-honored traditions for the most junior officer aboard. It's almost like being a Plebe again.
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And to think I thought I know and have seen everything. Ships company on four ships (3 small boys, 1 oiler) and embarked troops on others and I never saw officers living in crew's berthing. I actually have seen officers eating on the mess decks (rarely) but didn't know it was because there was no room for them in the ward room.

I wasn't implying Os live in the lap of luxury aboard ship but a two/three person state room is a lot better than cramped compartments where the E-6 and below live.

Crew berthing:
berthing.JPG
Had a chaplain on my oiler:
berth1.jpg
 
My Ensign son (23'), reports that there so many Ensigns on his DDG, that he and several others will be quartered in a section of Enlisted berthing. The ship is full of Nuke 01's working on their SWO Pins. Not sure of the ward room sit.
 
Devil Doc said:
And to think I thought I know and have seen everything. Ships company on four ships (3 small boys, 1 oiler) and embarked troops on others and I never saw officers living in crew's berthing. I actually have seen officers eating on the mess decks (rarely) but didn't know it was because there was no room for them in the ward room.

I wasn't implying Os live in the lap of luxury aboard ship but a two/three person state room is a lot better than cramped compartments where the E-6 and below live.

Crew berthing:
View attachment 15363
Had a chaplain on my oiler:
View attachment 15364
Click to expand...
You know what is see in that berthing area picture??? A nice large locker that was not in the Marine berthing on any of the ships I deployed on. That would have been nice to have….. however I should shut my pie hole because we were not ships company and were only visiting for the deployments. That is truly home to ships company. I remember being happy just to have a coffin rack and not the canvass racks on some ships.
 
Old Enlisted Marine said:
You know what is see in that berthing area picture??? A nice large locker that was not in the Marine berthing on any of the ships I deployed on. That would have been nice to have….. however I should shut my pie hole because we were not ships company and were only visiting for the deployments. That is truly home to ships company. I remember being happy just to have a coffin rack and not the canvass racks on some ships.
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My last deployment with the Marines was to Mamba Station on the Ponce. The Marines were in racks with no coffin locker. When we embarked in Morehead City, the ships command master chief took me to CPO berthing and said you can stay here with us. He pointed to a top rack with a CHT pipe above the mattress. I said no, thank you I will stay with my staff NCOs.
 
Chiming in, only bc this was one of the surprises for me when we visited my ensigns ship. He had a nice room, with their own so sink and shower. To me is seemed not much different than Bancroft actually. He had a roomate. Beds looked *relatively* comfy. But it was a “room”. I was expecting much less private space.

Another thing I didn’t realize is that some sailors actually live on the ship (his isn’t deployed). Always learning something new!

OP had asked about the different culture between USAF and Navy. It doesn’t end there!! There are also cultural differences within each community within (ie: aviator and submariner). And further culture differences on different ships (amphibious different than a destroyer, for example). Fortunately those cultures are experienced during summer trainings.
 
justdoit19 said:
Chiming in, only bc this was one of the surprises for me when we visited my ensigns ship. He had a nice room, with their own so sink and shower. To me is seemed not much different than Bancroft actually. He had a roomate. Beds looked *relatively* comfy. But it was a “room”. I was expecting much less private space.

Another thing I didn’t realize is that some sailors actually live on the ship (his isn’t deployed). Always learning something new!

OP had asked about the different culture between USAF and Navy. It doesn’t end there!! There are also cultural differences within each community within (ie: aviator and submariner). And further culture differences on different ships (amphibious different than a destroyer, for example). Fortunately those cultures are experienced during summer trainings.
Click to expand...
They can choose to live off base but they don't get BAH unless they are married. Bubbleheads have barracks rooms while in homeport but tin can sailors do not. Waiting in line for a shower or a commode and sharing a sink to shave builds character I suppose. At least in ships built in the last 60-70 years, the commodes have stalls.
 
OP another difference between a SA and ROTC program: you are AD at a SA (ie: health benefits, dental, time towards financial retirement benefits). You are a paid employee. Not so in ROTC (other than trainings).

There are also leadership opportunities available at a SA, that are not there for ROTC. @MidCakePa can speak to the details of the 4 yr SA/ROTC experience as he had one commission via each program. When my son was trying to figure out which route to go ( and was set on ROTC), his AF Colonel uncle (who went the ROTC route) told him ‘the exposure to leaders and opportunities at a SA is unparalleled…’. The entire institution is military minded!

A SA is a whole different animal than college. I’m certain that my youngest, especially, grew personally in ways he would not have, absent USNA. He was pushed and challenged personally in ways he wouldn’t have been at regular college, rose to the challenge and is now the version of himself that his dad and I saw in him, but he didn’t (youngest of a big family…birth order stuff…but that’s a whole different discussion). He certainly does now. But to your point about ‘challenging yourself’, it can be a real thing. Only you know!!

Honestly, you cannot go wrong either way. You already have a good gig.
 
Don't Give Up the Ship said:
My Ensign son (23'), reports that there so many Ensigns on his DDG, that he and several others will be quartered in a section of Enlisted berthing. The ship is full of Nuke 01's working on their SWO Pins. Not sure of the ward room sit.
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Wow, and I thought there was a SWO shortage. It's been a while since I was on a destroyer.
 
Devil Doc said:
Wow, and I thought there was a SWO shortage. It's been a while since I was on a destroyer.
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SWO shortage is at Dept Head and above due to retention so the Navy brings in even more Ensigns to try to fill the pipeline from the bottom
 
justdoit19 said:
you are AD at a SA (ie: health benefits, dental, time towards financial retirement benefits).
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The time toward financial retirement benefits is extremely limited. It is only to a Civil Service retirement SEPARATE from the military and I only know a very small number of folks who have done it.
 
Devil Doc said:
And to think I thought I know and have seen everything. Ships company on four ships (3 small boys, 1 oiler) and embarked troops on others and I never saw officers living in crew's berthing. I actually have seen officers eating on the mess decks (rarely) but didn't know it was because there was no room for them in the ward room.

I wasn't implying Os live in the lap of luxury aboard ship but a two/three person state room is a lot better than cramped compartments where the E-6 and below live.

Crew berthing:
View attachment 15363
Had a chaplain on my oiler:
View attachment 15364
Click to expand...
With SWO accession requirements as they are, some small boys are rolling deep with 30-40 officers in double- and triple-stuffed ("over-executed") billets. The ships are built for ~25. Female integration on ships not built for it also means what was formerly the "JO Jungle" might be female CPO berthing or female officer berthing instead.

Of note, this overmanning also means there are officers that regularly don't have "real jobs" or a division to lead. I think there are a few editorials out there about how this is affecting retention.

As an aside, there's a culture break between CRUDES and gator Navy; amphibs have a reputation for being more relaxed in the wardroom. Amphibs perhaps may not play the same games you might see in a CRUDES wardroom.

justdoit19 said:
He had a nice room, with their own so sink and shower.
Click to expand...
Not even on a carrier did I get my own shower inside a stateroom. But I haven't been on quite a few platforms. I've heard the LCS and Zumwalt DDGs have an insane amount of space in the staterooms and berthings.
 
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justdoit19 said:
time towards financial retirement benefits

There are also leadership opportunities available at a SA, that are not there for ROTC.
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I don’t believe the four years at the academy count toward the 20 year retirement from AD.
And I respectfully disagree with the leadership comment. I’ve had three go through AFROTC and they’ve all had great opportunities to be leaders. Conversely some of the Academy cadets we’ve hosted or academy grads who visit as friends or our AD kids haven’t seemed to be doing similar leadership activities. Over Xmas break I’ve had kids doing ROTC activities and Zoom meetings frequently vs having sponsored cadets not doing any work toward their upcoming position.
On a personal level my kids have had to learn life skills such as apartment hunting, budgeting, cooking, laundry, etc. along with balancing work study jobs.
One other aspect is that ROTC is not 2.0 and go. They have to maintain a 3.0 in AFROTC.
I’m not saying one avenue is better than the other. I'm just pointing out some differences and that there are many leadership lessons via ROTC. And I believe all the Joint Chiefs of Staff are ROTC grads.
 
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