USAFA vs USNA

[MCG USNA1994]

>> You mean Keflavik !

>> Yep, Keflavik again !


There have been several threads /sub thread diversions on the Nuke draft on SAF over the years. There have been several changes to the Services Selection process - it's now "Service Assignment". I think I raised the question a few years ago about how one can be drafted into a "volunteer"force like submarines, --I agree, the thought seems alien to me, but it appears they do it from time to time.. I recall hearing about it done before my time as well ...even in the days of Rickover.

Of course, I suspect there are ways around it if one is really opposed -- I saw a comment here within the last few weeks that someone was "saved" by a timely C in Physics, but keep in mind, needs of the Navy always control, and the senior officers can be pretty persuasive to a young Midshipman. (Beside, if you push back to hard, you could get sent to Keflavik !)

Okay, that makes sense...but that is basically the way it has always been.
But I still doubt they can call up someone and say "you are going subs, congratulations" - Naval Reactors would simply not accept it - they DGAF what USNA thinks about it - or the rest of USN for that matter.

I can totally get the "we think you should" and "we strongly advise you" and the needs of the Navy, etc. - but I just wonder about describing it as being "drafted" into subs....

And yeah - Keflavik!
Thank God I was a Surface Nuke...

 

[justdoit19]

Yes, comp science is his intended major as of right now.

One thing about majors, is that those aren’t 100 pct guaranteed, either. I know in my youngsters class, there were too many requesting his major. Not sure how they figure it out, but not everyone that requested (again, it’s a request, and then an assignment) his major, got it. Some majors are selective and competitive. His was popular.

ALWAYS, and in ALL WAYS, needs of the Navy.

 

[cluelesscandidateparents]

One thing about majors, is that those aren’t 100 pct guaranteed, either. I know in my youngsters class, there were too many requesting his major. Not sure how they figure it out, but not everyone that requested (again, it’s a request, and then an assignment) his major, got it. Some majors are selective and competitive. His was popular.

ALWAYS, and in ALL WAYS, needs of the Navy.

I know they explained it during his cvw He is lucky that he is good at all stem stuff from chem to physics, math and comp. Since second declare intend was physics i think

 

[usna1985]

Keflavik was actually ok. Now, Brunswick, Maine is a place I’m happy never to see again. For my parents, it was Mountain Home, ID. And Omaha.

 

[whataluckymom]

But I still doubt they can call up someone and say "you are going subs, congratulations" - Naval Reactors would simply not accept it - they DGAF what USNA thinks about it - or the rest of USN for that matter.

I can totally get the "we think you should" and "we strongly advise you" and the needs of the Navy, etc. - but I just wonder about describing it as being "drafted" into subs....

We are probably splitting hairs here on terminology - but the Firstie I have knowledge of was definitely not expecting a service assignment to Subs. And she wasn't the only one this year from what I understand. (@kinnem can probably provide more detail on the current situation.) Yes, of course, the ones that were "drafted" or "selected" had to meet the requirements by the community - but she definitely didn't pre-select, nor did she apply for beforehand, nor was she given a heads up prior to service assignment day. She was initially shocked and disappointed, but has since met with a lot of the sub community officers and is now excited about her assignment. After the assignment, she has since passed the nuclear power interview and the required interview with the four star Admiral - and like I mentioned, she's now very excited about joining the community. Keep in mind also, that none of the current Firsties had PROTRAMID due to COVID. That could have led to lower sub numbers going into service assignment season (just conjecture on my part).

 

[MCG USNA1994]

We are probably splitting hairs here on terminology - but the Firstie I have knowledge of was definitely not expecting a service assignment to Subs. And she wasn't the only one this year from what I understand. (@kinnem can probably provide more detail on the current situation.) Yes, of course, the ones that were "drafted" or "selected" had to meet the requirements by the community - but she definitely didn't pre-select, nor did she apply for beforehand, nor was she given a heads up prior to service assignment day. She was initially shocked and disappointed, but has since met with a lot of the sub community officers and is now excited about her assignment. After the assignment, she has since passed the nuclear power interview and the required interview with the four star Admiral - and like I mentioned, she's now very excited about joining the community. Keep in mind also, that none of the current Firsties had PROTRAMID due to COVID. That could have led to lower sub numbers going into service assignment season (just conjecture on my part).

I totally did not consider the COVID/no Protramid impact - totally agree with that assessment.

In any case - I am happy to hear that she is excited about her future and her warfare community. In the end, that is the most important thing.

Thank you for clarifying.

Cheers,

MG

 

[OldRetSWO]

Okay, that makes sense...but that is basically the way it has always been.
But I still doubt they can call up someone and say "you are going subs, congratulations" - Naval Reactors would simply not accept it - they DGAF what USNA thinks about it - or the rest of USN for that matter.

I can totally get the "we think you should" and "we strongly advise you" and the needs of the Navy, etc. - but I just wonder about describing it as being "drafted" into subs....

And yeah - Keflavik!
Thank God I was a Surface Nuke...

My Class of "80 cousin was drafted for an interview with Admiral Rickover and was very thankful to NOT be selected as he really wanted to fly. Fast forward to him as a Post-Squadron Command Commander and he gets sent to Nuke Power School en route to being XO of a Carrier.

I selected SWO and was a plankowner on a CGN. At the end of my tour, the CO and XO tried to get me to switch into Nuke Power school but I didn't bite.

 

[MCG USNA1994]

My Class of "80 cousin was drafted for an interview with Admiral Rickover and was very thankful to NOT be selected as he really wanted to fly. Fast forward to him as a Post-Squadron Command Commander and he gets sent to Nuke Power School en route to being XO of a Carrier.

I selected SWO and was a plankowner on a CGN. At the end of my tour, the CO and XO tried to get me to switch into Nuke Power school but I didn't bite.

The CVN CO pipeline folks were great to go to Power School with. I went as a jg, as we were part of the first crop of SWOs that went to a small boy to get qual'd first, then to power school. The pilots all threw great parties...

 

[dav1y]

Thank y'all again for the help and advice! I'm still pretty undecided at this point, but I really do feel like I would love USNA and the Navy in general, especially after what everyone said. It's just a hard decision for me personally since I've been really into USAFA for the past few years, and applied to USNA last minute as a backup, really, and the fact that my parents aren't too keen on me being on a ship for 6-9 months. However, as many of y'all have said, there's no wrong decision here.

 

[St.Kath]

Thank y'all again for the help and advice! I'm still pretty undecided at this point, but I really do feel like I would love USNA and the Navy in general, especially after what everyone said. It's just a hard decision for me personally since I've been really into USAFA for the past few years, and applied to USNA last minute as a backup, really, and the fact that my parents aren't too keen on me being on a ship for 6-9 months. However, as many of y'all have said, there's no wrong decision here.

+ Pro USNA;

Summer White uniform looks
marvelous.

 

[AF6872]

I will see your Keflavik and raise you USAF North Warning System. I know people who requested SEA rather than the chnce of remote duty there.

 

[usna1985]

^^^^^
My dad did 4 months in Thule, Greenland in the 1950s. As a WWII Marine SSGT, he didn’t complain about much. But he said Thule was pretty bad. Others have said that about Dodge, though weather is certainly better.

 

[dav1y]

Sorry for yet another question, but can anyone shed some light on where pilots/aviators go after winging (both USAF and USN)? Just curious as to what the timeline looks like for those who have already gotten their wings and where they go after completing UPT/Naval Flight School.

 

[Capt MJ]

Sorry for yet another question, but can anyone shed some light on where pilots/aviators go after winging (both USAF and USN)? Just curious as to what the timeline looks like for those who have already gotten their wings and where they go after completing UPT/Naval Flight School.

While waiting for other people to show up and comment, you can google things such as “Navy pilot career path.” There are official and unofficial sources. Very generally, flight training moves a pilot from the introductory phases through various stages such as the forks in the road that lead to either fixed wing or rotary, and eventually to the training squadron that teaches pilots to fly a specific aircraft. Those squadrons are located at different Naval Air Stations (NAS) around the country.

Once a pilot successfully completes that training, the majority receive orders to an operational fleet squadron, and commence their careers. Their career path then follows the general pattern of warfare officers, rotating between sea/operational duty and shore duty.


Here’s one link:

Chief of Naval Air Training | Naval Aviator Training

www.cnatra.navy.mil

 

[dav1y]

How long do sea duty and shore duty last (between rotations)? I've also read that after 3-4 years you get assigned to a longer-term of shore duty, but I wasn't really sure if that's true or not.

 

[OldRetSWO]

How long do sea duty and shore duty last (between rotations)? I've also read that after 3-4 years you get assigned to a longer-term of shore duty, but I wasn't really sure if that's true or not.

You need to understand what is meant by "Sea Duty" here. It is not when a carrier or a land based air squadron returns from deployment. When the carrier or land based squadron returns, the pilots and the rest are still on Sea Duty while between deployments. Sea Duty is a billet in an operational squadron or command whether it is actually deployed or not. This is the same as a SWO that is assigned a ship that is in overhaul at a shipyard and is still considered to be on Sea Duty. After about three years of sea duty, an aviator will get sent to shore duty which can be a number of things including Post Graduate School, teaching at an NROTC Unit and many other things. After a few years, you move back to Sea Duty.
I think that the rotations you're mentioning are actually deployments and those vary according to what platform you're flying. Carrier based squadrons as well as shipboard helos that deploy aboard destroyers and amphibs will (of course) have deployments based on their ships and those have long been targeted at 6 months but can vary up to about 9 months at times. There can also be shorter deployment periods for specific exercises or qualification periods. An example of this can be seen in some of the NATO exercises which might have you out of homeport for two months or so.

 

[theGipper122]

As someone with your situation of deciding which offer to accept, my thought process might shed a little light. (Ultimately I have chosen Air Force, but I could definitely see someone with different personality/goals going Annapolis). It's sort of like MLB/NFL: I like both, but they have different charms for different people.

Surrounding: I like being in the mountains on a wide open campus with a big sky above it, but Annapolis (just look up some YouTube videos of it or something) is really, really cool. In fact, hopefully I can do an exchange semester once I'm 2nd or 1st class to experience the city. And, Annapolis definitely has the more beautiful buildings on campus in my opinion.

Culture: Navy guys think it's hilarious that the Air Force guys know exactly when their deployment will be and that everything is scheduled 5 years out (not literally but that's the idea). If you like structure and order, Air Force. If you like getting the job done by any means necessary, Navy.

Careers: I have heard that Navy has lots of different "communities", and you find the niche where you want to spend your career. Sub guys and the ways they work are totally different than SEALs or SWOs, but you build a sort of close, fraternal bond. Air Force is more consistently the same across the different disciplines. One factor in my decision is the opportunity in the Space Force and how cool it would be to really lay the groundwork for the branch of the military that may be the backbone of our future wars. In case you haven't seen it, there's a detailed rundown of AF careers and requirements in the AFOCD: http://www.milvet.state.pa.us/DMVA/Docs_PNG/hro/AFOCD.pdf
I'm sure someone here could find you the equivalent for Navy. Just see if you would be happy with your first, second, third... nth pick in each list.

Uniforms: There's cool ones at both, I wouldn't sweat it. My little sister even likes the USAFA dress blues better than USNA summer whites

Academics: Probably not much of a difference in quality at all, if any. It's just a matter of what you're interested in. You've certainly looked those over before I'm sure. So, that's just another personal factor.

Personalities: This is what a lot of the folks here were saying - see if you can find the people you fit in with. I know several graduates from both academies, and I tend to follow the patterns of Air Force guys more. USNA grads are pretty easy-going, cool, and funny. USAFA is a little more straight-laced and straight-forward. It takes some of both for the military to work, but the branches definitely tend to lean towards one way or the other.

Bases: Navy is obviously going to be near... you guessed it, water. Usually around water is a city, so if that's your cup of tea then that's a bonus for Navy. I would personally prefer a more medium-sized, spread out city like Dayton or Tucson. With a golf course naturally

Overall, just to sway you away from the dark side I will say that the graduates of the Air Force academy (and just Air Force people in general) tend to be closer to 100% in support of their branch. It seems like the USNA grads are slightly more along the lines of "you'll get a good education at either one and do great." There's obviously pride in their branch, but it does seem like more sailors would rather be in the Air Force than airmen in the Navy. Hope you can make a decision that you're confident in and excited about!

 

[Old Navy BGO]

There's obviously pride in their branch, but it does seem like more sailors would rather be in the Air Force than airmen in the Navy.

Had to laugh at that one .... yeah, sailors b!tch and moan at the Navy, but they love it, and the Air Force is the butt of many of their jokes. We poke a lot of fun at the perception that the Air Force is soft and refined , and there is at least some truth - deploying and operating from the sea is a lot different than operating from land, and even deployed, Air Force amenities are often far better than Navy.

The truth is , we are all on the same side, and if someone wants to go Air Force, thats fine -- serving in the Air Force is an honorable alternative to serving in the military

 

[Stealth_81]

Sorry for yet another question, but can anyone shed some light on where pilots/aviators go after winging (both USAF and USN)? Just curious as to what the timeline looks like for those who have already gotten their wings and where they go after completing UPT/Naval Flight School.

For Air Force, at the end of UPT you will fill out a “dream sheet” listing your preference for the available airframes in your drop. These are assigned by UPT class rank with the highest ranked getting first choice. After finishing UPT and receiving your airframe assignment, you will head to the base where your airframe has it’s B-Course (Basic Course). Depending on airframe, it is between 4 and 9 months long. This is where experienced instructor pilots teach you how to fly and employ your chosen aircraft. They teach you the basics and you are given several check rides to monitor how well you do. Again at the end of the B-Course you are ranked by performance and your follow-on base and operational unit is chosen from the available openings. Once you get to your operating unit you will have more training in the exact jet type and mission that the unit flies. Once that is completed and approved, you will be an operational qualified wingman or co-pilot.

Stealth_81

 

[BBMomma]

Had to laugh at that one .... yeah, sailors b!tch and moan at the Navy, but they love it, and the Air Force is the butt of many of their jokes. We poke a lot of fun at the perception that the Air Force is soft and refined , and there is at least some truth - deploying and operating from the sea is a lot different than operating from land, and even deployed, Air Force amenities are often far better than Navy.

The truth is , we are all on the same side, and if someone wants to go Air Force, thats fine -- serving in the Air Force is an honorable alternative to serving in the military

This sounds like my dinner table, when all of my children are home on leave. They have an ongoing debate of what branch is the best and poke at each other nonstop..
My husband, brothers, and eldest child are all Navy. My other son, dad, and father-in-law all Army. My youngest is hoping for USAFA and will ultimately serve in the Space Force or Air Force. The banter between them all is hilarious, but ultimately they settle on the youngest brother bring the only one smart enough to get into the Air Force..

But then I have to pipe in and remind them, non of them are that smart, because we all know that it's the Marine that looks best in uniform