USMA Boxing

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bigticketbill

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Dec 25, 2020
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Hello, I recently accepted an appointment for West Point and am interested in Boxing as a Club Sport at USMA.

I grew up in combat sports as I have a 2nd Dan Black Belt in Taekwondo and experience with Muay Thai. However, my sophomore year, I stopped as I wanted to commit to high school team sports. Since all cadets are required to play a sport, I am debating what I'd like to participate in. Boxing seems to call out to me the most, although grappling seems interesting as well. USMA boxing seems to be pretty high level, so I wonder how I would fit in with no formal boxing experience. Does anyone know any details about Club/Competitive Boxing at USMA? When tryouts are, how many people are on the team, personal stories, etc.
 
bigticketbill said:
Hello, I recently accepted an appointment for West Point and am interested in Boxing as a Club Sport at USMA.

I grew up in combat sports as I have a 2nd Dan Black Belt in Taekwondo and experience with Muay Thai. However, my sophomore year, I stopped as I wanted to commit to high school team sports. Since all cadets are required to play a sport, I am debating what I'd like to participate in. Boxing seems to call out to me the most, although grappling seems interesting as well. USMA boxing seems to be pretty high level, so I wonder how I would fit in with no formal boxing experience. Does anyone know any details about Club/Competitive Boxing at USMA? When tryouts are, how many people are on the team, personal stories, etc.
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One of my best friends is on the team. They did not have any prior boxing experience and, like you, did taekwondo and combatives prior to USMA. It is a very rigorous tryout, and a ton of kids attempt it. Most are not cut and quit during the long tryout. It is definitely a gritty sport with a very large "warrior mentality" not found in most of the other sports; from an outsider's perspective I'd say it's more cut-throat than football. Tryouts are during the beginning of the school year; I think there are about a hundred on the team.

There is a much more casual (but still competitive) combatives and jiu jitsu team, along with Taekwondo. You will take boxing during Plebe year, so you will get to try it out. There are tryouts every semester for most sports.
 
Not sure how you are gauging 'level', but it is usually based on winning a Golden Gloves event as an amateur. Is USMA filled with such talent? Navy competes in the National Collegiate Boxing Association (NCBA). Under NCBA rules, no recruiting or scholarships are allowed. Boxing in the NCBA is for students with little or no previous experience. A boxer is not allowed to have more than 10 bouts prior to entering college. If they have any previous experience, they have to go through a waiver process and can lose some eligibility. Most Navy boxers never put on a glove before attending USNA. The ones with some experience usually had only 1-3 bouts. Navy had a boxer who arrived to USNA from LA with 97 bouts. He was not able to box on their NCBA team, but was able to compete in the amateurs at a higher level and boxed at the national golden gloves and internationally. Lots of kids earn their TKD Black belt in less than 3 years and before they hit puberty ('testing for checks' as they say in the TKD biz). TKD will not help you against a boxer any more than it will in a street fight. By the time you lift a fist from your hip to throw a punch from the horse stance, you will be knocked-out cold. If Army is also in NCBA, then start running and jumping rope - prepare your cardio and have someone teach you basic foot work. That will prepare you for your try-outs. I'm sure they'll teach you the rest.
 
2018 and 2019 were both on the boxing team. Both had wrestling backgrounds but no formal boxing experience. They both loved being part of the team. Lol... get your cardio going cause tryouts are grueling! As a bonus... they had their own tables in the DFAC LOL!
 
Paine1776 said:
TKD will not help you against a boxer any more than it will in a street fight. By the time you lift a fist from your hip to throw a punch from the horse stance, you will be knocked-out cold.
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This isn’t necessarily true.

You are discounting size comparisons, skill level comparisons, speed comparisons, size of the fight in the fighter, first punch, boxing skills of the TKD, etc.

In a boxing match, a skilled boxer will beat a skilled TKD fighter. In a street fight ... there is more to it.
 
A1Janitor said:
This isn’t necessarily true.

You are discounting size comparisons, skill level comparisons, speed comparisons, size of the fight in the fighter, first punch, boxing skills of the TKD, etc.

In a boxing match, a skilled boxer will beat a skilled TKD fighter. In a street fight ... there is more to it.
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Was basing it on MMA/UFC outcomes. In UFC, 99% of their 400+ fighters under contract were trained in striking via Boxing or Muay Thai. (For ground game, 99% are BJJ or Wrestling.) Obviously, in a professional fight context for strikers - MMA - TKD has established itself as ineffective based on how so very people coming from that background are able to fight professionally at the highest levels in MMA worldwide.
 
Fighting professionally in MMA/UFC is a very different scenario than "amateurs" in a "street fight" that are going at it.
 
Paine1776 said:
Was basing it on MMA/UFC outcomes. In UFC, 99% of their 400+ fighters under contract were trained in striking via Boxing or Muay Thai. (For ground game, 99% are BJJ or Wrestling.) Obviously, in a professional fight context for strikers - MMA - TKD has established itself as ineffective based on how so very people coming from that background are able to fight professionally at the highest levels in MMA worldwide.
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For striking ... at that level ... of course.

Two evenly matched amateurs in a fight - it goes to the ground.

McGregor is a BJJ guy. They can learn boxing skills too.

Years ago when Jon Jones was like three wins in UFC - he trained in my office building I owned. I love Jon Jones and how he treated my kids. He was a JUCO wrestling champion ... and he was learning Muay Thai from an old Indian named Stone Horse in my gym.

In a pure boxing match - I would take Tyson. In a MMA fight - I take Jon. Wrestler wins.

The other disciplines cross train.
 
TheRightStuff said:
Fighting professionally in MMA/UFC is a very different scenario than "amateurs" in a "street fight" that are going at it.
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So true ... and now we have drifted completely off subject (i.e. get ready for NCBA, run, jump rope, learn foot work.) However, if you want to take it out onto the street with amateurs and nobody lands a sucker punch, then all my money is on the person who trained as a Wrestler or in BJJ cuz they are going to put their opponents onto the ground before they ever land a punch.
 
A1Janitor said:
For striking ... at that level ... of course.

Two evenly matched amateurs in a fight - it goes to the ground.

McGregor is a BJJ guy. They can learn boxing skills too.

Years ago when Jon Jones was like three wins in UFC - he trained in my office building I owned. I love Jon Jones and how he treated my kids. He was a JUCO wrestling champion ... and he was learning Muay Thai from an old Indian named Stone Horse in my gym.

In a pure boxing match - I would take Tyson. In a MMA fight - I take Jon. Wrestler wins.

The other disciplines cross train.
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... and while still being completely off subject, you are correct except except except ... lol ... U.S. Olympic Wrestler Ben Askrens getting knocked out in 5 seconds into First Round of his first UFC fight by Jorge Masvidal. :)
 
Paine1776 said:
... and while still being completely off subject, you are correct except except except ... lol ... U.S. Olympic Wrestler Ben Askrens getting knocked out in 5 seconds into First Round of his first UFC fight by Jorge Masvidal. :)
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LMAO How many flying knees did Tyson or Ali ever win with.

This proves my point (in my mind ;) ) - you can’t determine who would win in a fight. You are a flying knee or takedown or punch away from being done.

Masvidal also lost to wrestler Usman in his last fight.
 
JWP said:
2018 and 2019 were both on the boxing team. Both had wrestling backgrounds but no formal boxing experience. They both loved being part of the team. Lol... get your cardio going cause tryouts are grueling! As a bonus... they had their own tables in the DFAC LOL!
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What is DFAC? Don't see it in the Acronym list.
 
Paine1776 said:
Not sure how you are gauging 'level', but it is usually based on winning a Golden Gloves event as an amateur. Is USMA filled with such talent? Navy competes in the National Collegiate Boxing Association (NCBA). Under NCBA rules, no recruiting or scholarships are allowed. Boxing in the NCBA is for students with little or no previous experience. A boxer is not allowed to have more than 10 bouts prior to entering college. If they have any previous experience, they have to go through a waiver process and can lose some eligibility. Most Navy boxers never put on a glove before attending USNA. The ones with some experience usually had only 1-3 bouts. Navy had a boxer who arrived to USNA from LA with 97 bouts. He was not able to box on their NCBA team, but was able to compete in the amateurs at a higher level and boxed at the national golden gloves and internationally. Lots of kids earn their TKD Black belt in less than 3 years and before they hit puberty ('testing for checks' as they say in the TKD biz). TKD will not help you against a boxer any more than it will in a street fight. By the time you lift a fist from your hip to throw a punch from the horse stance, you will be knocked-out cold. If Army is also in NCBA, then start running and jumping rope - prepare your cardio and have someone teach you basic foot work. That will prepare you for your try-outs. I'm sure they'll teach you the rest.
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Thank you! I did not know USNA had such a rich boxing history. As for TKD, I understand that there are many "McDojos" that give the martial art a bad rep for handing out black belts in such little time. However, it took me 10 years to become a 1st Dan and another 2 to become a 2nd Dan at my studio. I used to compete in Olympic Style TKD and even placed at nationals a few times; though, I was always somewhat overshadowed because several of my teammates even made the US national team and competed at world and Pan-American championships. I understand the physical skills won't necessarily translate to boxing; however, in my observations, I've noticed that most striking arts have similarities in the mental game and strategy(i.e., managing distance, changing attacking levels, working in close quarters/clinch, etc.) So if my observations are accurate, then I hope my experience somewhat benefits me. As for cardio, yes, I will totally need to ramp up my conditioning for boxing before beast. I remember when I was 10-14 years old in the summers in jacket and sweats with TKD gear on running miles with my team when cutting weight(which was actually one of the reasons I stopped competing... IMHO, kids that young shouldn't be that worried about their weight). Not the fondest memories, but I have grown older and physically matured. Yes, I will definitely be focusing on my cardio coming this summer.
 
Paine1776 said:
Was basing it on MMA/UFC outcomes. In UFC, 99% of their 400+ fighters under contract were trained in striking via Boxing or Muay Thai. (For ground game, 99% are BJJ or Wrestling.) Obviously, in a professional fight context for strikers - MMA - TKD has established itself as ineffective based on how so very people coming from that background are able to fight professionally at the highest levels in MMA worldwide.
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I agree with this! Muay Thai especially is much more effective than TKD by itself in any real-world or MMA situation. Though, I could see how TKD could be a good supplement to MMA, with all the different kicking skills. However, TKD by itself is limited in its ground and punching capabilities. I know McGregor and several other UFC fighters occasionally train TKD to work on their kicking. Maybe he should have trained a little more of that before Poirier LOL
 
A1Janitor said:
For striking ... at that level ... of course.

Two evenly matched amateurs in a fight - it goes to the ground.

McGregor is a BJJ guy. They can learn boxing skills too.

Years ago when Jon Jones was like three wins in UFC - he trained in my office building I owned. I love Jon Jones and how he treated my kids. He was a JUCO wrestling champion ... and he was learning Muay Thai from an old Indian named Stone Horse in my gym.

In a pure boxing match - I would take Tyson. In a MMA fight - I take Jon. Wrestler wins.

The other disciplines cross train.
Click to expand...
For sure, wrestling is probably the most important skill for a real world or MMA fight. Fights will always end up on the ground eventually, if you don't know how to handle things there yeah you're pretty screwed.
 
bigticketbill said:
I know McGregor and several other UFC fighters occasionally train TKD to work on their kicking. Maybe he should have trained a little more of that before Poirier LOL
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We are starting to see a transition to more calf kicks. I saw a video of the impact to the calf of these kicks. That ends a boxer pretty quickly.

I trained JKD for years. I would love to get back in again. Bruce would have added BJJ elements and expanded the ground game.

I also like guys like Couture ... great takedown defense and catch wrestling. Or Liddell.
 
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