USMC reveals new details about future force structure

Discussion in 'ROTC' started by USMCGrunt, Feb 28, 2017.

  1. USMCGrunt

    USMCGrunt 5-Year Member

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    https://www.marinecorpstimes.com/articles/marine-corps-growth-uncertain

    "Marines are not getting enough dwell time between deployments and “it’s wearing out the force,” said Wood, who served on President Trump’s transition team. "

    "Trump has embraced the recommendations from a study by the conservative Heritage Foundation think tank, which calls for adding 12 active-duty infantry battalions and one active-duty tank battalion so the Marine Corps can fight two wars at once. "


    We will see how congress deals with this but its starting to feel like the period when Ronald Reagan first took over as President. I had just gone on active duty and it was a high time to be in the military.
     
  2. MichUSNA2021hopefulparent

    MichUSNA2021hopefulparent Member

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    Approximately how many new 2nd LTs would be needed for 13 new Marine Corps battalions?
     
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  3. Day-Tripper

    Day-Tripper 5-Year Member

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    I, too, enlisted in the early Reagan period (1981). Military pay went up 25%+ in 1981-1982. I don't foresee that kind of increase ever again. If you were enlisted & unmarried, your only expenses were beer & car payments. Cost of gas was going down in the early 1980s too. Easy to afford those Trans-Ams. Good times.

    Total active duty personnel remained at around 2 million from the early 1970s to the early 1990s & has never reached those levels since. Trump's proposed increases in active duty strengths won't exceed 1.5 million. And that will take a few years. Who will be recruited to fill those increased numbers? Lower recruiting standards, like weight, tattoos, high school grad requirement? Or increased efforts to retain personnel (re-enlistment bonuses?)

    It all comes down to Congress. Between near universal Democratic opposition (becoming more staunch every day) & considerable budget hawks in the GOP ranks (who created sequestration in the first place), combined with the complete lack of behind-the-scenes deal-making anymore (pork barrel spending got things done!), make me believe Trump's proposed spending increases (which I, like John McCain, believe are too small) won't get passed. At least not without being watered down.

    A Ronald Reagan would make phone calls to individual representatives & senators & try to win them over to his side. He had that indefinable personal touch to make opponents switch over to his side. Reagan's massive military spending increases happened when Democrats controlled Congress! Bill Clinton had it to a lesser extent. Trump completely lacks this ability. His abrasiveness is toxic.
     
  4. kinnem

    kinnem Moderator 5-Year Member

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    The Dems also had Senators like Scoop Jackson and Sam Nunn at the time which helped make things a bit easier.
     
  5. Day-Tripper

    Day-Tripper 5-Year Member

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    Each US Marine Corps battalion (for this example, an infantry) typically has four companies. Each company has about 3-4 platoons, each commanded by a junior officer, most commonly a 2nd lieutenant.

    This extrapolates to 150-200 new 2nd lieutenants to man the proposed new 13 battalions.

    Not to mention the existing force level, which I believe is in the neighborhood of around 20-24 battalions, artillery, armor, logistics, administration headquarters, the entire Marine Air Wing, reserves, etc.

    Roughly (sources differ, see below), the USMC commissions around 1500-2000 new officers annually (the vast majority being 2nd lieutenants, i.e. lawyers & chaplains may get a quick jump in rank). Marine officers can come from Service Academy (Annapolis), NROTC, PLC, straight out of college into OCS or enlisted-to-officer (hardest to get).

    Every year, the Marines replace 10% of their officer corps & 25% of their enlisted ranks. The high turnover is constant, but that means that the opportunity is there if you want to be a Marine.


    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Marine_Corps

    "Every year, over 2,000 new Marine officers are commissioned, and 38,000 recruits accepted and trained."

    http://www.careersinthemilitary.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=services.marines_officer

    "And each year, the Marine Corps accepts approximately 1,500 new officers into its ranks to lead them."

    Source of USMC officers:

    http://www.marines.com/becoming-a-marine/commissioning-programs
     
  6. cb7893

    cb7893 5-Year Member

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    Forgive my ignorance of military nomenclature...but I'll try anyway.

    Comparing the Reagan years to the Clinton years to the post 9/11 build up to the Trump Administration proposals--in terms of shear head count--what is the break down of occupations of the women and men in uniform in the different eras(I understand there are whole new categories of occupations)? Officers vs. Enlisted? Flag Officers as a % of total force?

    I am interested because, when my brother was in Vietnam his meals were prepared and mail sorted by US soldiers; my son's, in Kuwait, by civilians, most of whom aren't even US citizens. In his shop, Signal, at least a third are civilian contractors, many ex-military, but civilian nonetheless.

    No agenda here. I understand there was no 4G or WIFI in Vietnam. I understand it takes more folks to maintain an F-35 than an F-4, but the F-35 is infinitely more capable. Just looking for some perspective as the heat surrounding the issue goes from low to high.
     
  7. Day-Tripper

    Day-Tripper 5-Year Member

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    Without any hard proof, I would say anecdotally that the with the demise of the draft & the trend towards smaller total force levels, more and more jobs once done by E-1s & E-2s are being done by civilian contractors. The reliance on them in Iraq & Afghanistan would never have happened in earlier wars. In my years on active duty, I was never once served a meal on base by anyone other than a fellow serviceman. Nor was the grass mowed, the leaves raked, the waste basket emptied, the cigarette butts picked up, the rocks painted, etc. by anyone other than enlisted personnel.

    Additionally, the military as a whole (some services more than others) is more officer-heavy than it once was. The following article only cites back as far as 2000, but the Army's enlisted-to-officer ratio has increased by 21%. In war-time! Historically, the trend should go in the opposite direction, i.e. enlisted ranks would get swollen by draftees & officers would find themselves in command of more personnel than they ever could have dreamed of.

    US Army officers-to-enlisted ratio is now about 4-to-1. In Vietnam War era, 7-to-1. WW2, 11-to-1. WW1, 15-to-1.

    US Navy now almost as many admirals as it has ships.

    http://mtntactical.com/all-articles/officers-less-enlisted-changing-force-structure-u-s-military/

    https://fabiusmaximus.com/2012/09/10/american-military-force-changed-43153/

    "As of April 2011, there were 964 general and flag officers. By comparison, at the end of the Cold War the U.S. had 1,017 general and flag officers. Thus, there has only been a nominal decrease in general and flag officers even though the number of active duty uniformed personnel has decreased by roughly 28%, the Air Force flies 35% fewer planes, and the Navy has 46% fewer ships in its fleet. In sum, the number of general and flag officers has barely fallen despite double-digit percentage drops in the size of the forces they command."
     
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  8. USMCGrunt

    USMCGrunt 5-Year Member

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  9. USMCGrunt

    USMCGrunt 5-Year Member

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  10. Day-Tripper

    Day-Tripper 5-Year Member

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    Wow. From 1955-2015, with the exception of the 1966-1970 Vietnam War era (and the draft), the Marine Corps has averaged 180K-200K active duty personnel. Not much of a shift over time.

    Compare that to the Air Force, which shrank from a peak of 960K in (peacetime) 1955 to 1/3rd that level in recent years. And America had half the total population in 1955 that it has today. Imagine, in 2017, if the US Air Force had 1.9 personnel on active duty.
     
  11. MichUSNA2021hopefulparent

    MichUSNA2021hopefulparent Member

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    So, with specific regard to the USNA and this proposed USMC increase : since last year in 2016 only 266 USNA graduating midshipmen service selected USMC (Ground and Air combined ), do you expect a higher number in coming graduating classes to go USMC? Also, currently, very interestingly, the USMC commissions 1500-2000 new officers annually, according to the above statistics: so the USNA only supplies one fifth or one seventh of the new Marine officers?
     
  12. USMCGrunt

    USMCGrunt 5-Year Member

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    EOD/SEALmom likes this.