Hey everyone, just trying to get a sense of what other applicants (or their parents) are experiencing right now. My DS is currently working on his congressional nominations, and he's pretty much wrapped up everything for his USNA application except for the personal statement. But he hasn’t received any calls yet. On the other hand, with West Point, as soon as he was about 50% done with the application, he started getting DODMERB requests, a face-to-face interview, and other follow-ups. Is this normal? Does USNA usually take their time with candidate follow-ups, or is West Point just more on top of things? Just curious what other folks are seeing with their DS/DDs!
USNA vs West Point: Difference in Timeline and Candidate Communications
- Thread starter Magulang
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Unless something is asked or there is an issue it’s not uncommon to not hear from admissions. Your DS has a BGO and has been in communications? USMA admissions structure is slightly different than USNA’s. They tend to be more communicative than USNA. I wish USNA was more communicative, but they aren’t. Unless something is needed, he probably won’t hear from USNA.
IronmanDaremo
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USMA has to work harder to recruit. Usually that happens when you go against the top dog. 
That’s the word I’m looking for, “communicative” and “interactive” (USMA). Radio silence from USNA. Well I guess not completely. Heard from BGO via intro email and one response to email. USMA wanted the interview done early, and communicate constantly. Does it make sense to also try to get the interview done early with USNA even before essay is done?
Waitandsee
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Just curious, at this early stage in the process what kind of communications are you actually looking for from USNA or "calls"?
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If an applicant has 40-50% of their app done in the BGO facing portal heck yes I would schedule an interview with that candidate. Last year was my first cycle as a BGO. Of 12 candidates only two met the ‘schedule an interview mark’. An interview is a commitment of time and energy for the BGO and the applicant.
If you cannot, as an applicant submit major aspects of your application why would a BGO invest in an interview? I’m here for consult. I’m here as a sounding board. I’m here as an advisor.
Regardless of the strength of your application or anyone else’s application, there will be appointments offered up until late May. Sometimes outliers in June.
IRG to the question re a BGO interview prior to essay being done this stumps me.
Completing the personal essays and statement components of the application are baseline components. Those should not hold up your application. These are not Common App essays.
Answer the prompt as only you can do. No platitudes, no extemporaneous verbiage. Old timers will recognize the not politically correct acronym’ATFQ’. Fill in the blanks as you will.
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Also, my question would be what is the applicant trying to ascertain from admissions? Via email or message or video chat request?
Could those questions have been asked and answered via the USNA website? The admission’s chat function? The application portal guidance? An email to a responsive BGO (be patient, all volunteer force and we have lives and jobs)?
Sometimes the USNA portal feels archaic. No doubt. But this is not an input output experience. An applicant completes the process and waits months for output. Period.
You don’t get feedback. Or kudos. Or attboys/girls. There is not a person in the admission office who can talk to you about where you stand in relation to those competing for a spot in your class. And they shouldn’t.
The onus is on the applicant. Meet the conditions of the application and nomination process. Hurry up and wait.
Brutal, but true.
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Service academies approach their processes differently - different, not wrong. There are thousands of bits of data flowing toward the SAs, and candidate applications are worked in various orders that make sense to that SA.
Cultural differences are also at work. “Brief by exception” is a major part of Navy leadership culture and history, an emphasis on being able to self-direct and make decisions without a lot of overhead guidance. This grew out of Royal Navy roots. Ship captains would be given written orders and sent off for years at a time to execute a mission, with essential communications only, sometimes months apart. Brief by exception is what my best leaders told me - “Come tell me when things are going really wrong or really great, otherwise, I will assume all is going well, I trust you to do your job, and I’ll stay out of your way.” Those cultural roots run deep, with Navy units operating far away from land and regular communications, self-sufficiency was highly valued, and regular communications for the sake of communications were not the norm, nor was instant feedback. That sensibility still infuses the Navy culture, despite leaps in technology. The “silent service” of submarine warfare missions is still that “run silent, run deep” way of operating.
This can certainly be disconcerting to candidates who are accustomed to being in constant touch via a variety of channels and receiving instant feedback.
Like @NavyHoops I wish USNA was a bit savvier with marketing outreach - what candidate doesn’t enjoy feeling wanted or seen - but USNA trusts candidates to do their job without a lot of extraneous engagement, while they do theirs. The “just in time” mentality is also a part of naval culture. Need training for a job you are going to? You’ll get it just in time before you need it. Every year, USNA gets through all the applications and builds a class, in their own way, just as the other SAs do. In many ways they are alike, and in others, not.
Different, not wrong.
Cultural differences are also at work. “Brief by exception” is a major part of Navy leadership culture and history, an emphasis on being able to self-direct and make decisions without a lot of overhead guidance. This grew out of Royal Navy roots. Ship captains would be given written orders and sent off for years at a time to execute a mission, with essential communications only, sometimes months apart. Brief by exception is what my best leaders told me - “Come tell me when things are going really wrong or really great, otherwise, I will assume all is going well, I trust you to do your job, and I’ll stay out of your way.” Those cultural roots run deep, with Navy units operating far away from land and regular communications, self-sufficiency was highly valued, and regular communications for the sake of communications were not the norm, nor was instant feedback. That sensibility still infuses the Navy culture, despite leaps in technology. The “silent service” of submarine warfare missions is still that “run silent, run deep” way of operating.
This can certainly be disconcerting to candidates who are accustomed to being in constant touch via a variety of channels and receiving instant feedback.
Like @NavyHoops I wish USNA was a bit savvier with marketing outreach - what candidate doesn’t enjoy feeling wanted or seen - but USNA trusts candidates to do their job without a lot of extraneous engagement, while they do theirs. The “just in time” mentality is also a part of naval culture. Need training for a job you are going to? You’ll get it just in time before you need it. Every year, USNA gets through all the applications and builds a class, in their own way, just as the other SAs do. In many ways they are alike, and in others, not.
Different, not wrong.
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DODMERB is good for all SAs and ROTC…so you won’t be hearing from them for each SA or ROTC.
For others that are reading…
The one thing that doesn’t change between how all SAs do their admissions process/business is the candidate owning the application and taking the initiative. When a candidate owns the application and is proactive, they are the one doing the research, completing the numerous application sections, asking for help from their parents, admissions liaisons/offices, etc. Therefore, any calls or follow-ups is icing on the cake and not relied upon.
For others that are reading…
The one thing that doesn’t change between how all SAs do their admissions process/business is the candidate owning the application and taking the initiative. When a candidate owns the application and is proactive, they are the one doing the research, completing the numerous application sections, asking for help from their parents, admissions liaisons/offices, etc. Therefore, any calls or follow-ups is icing on the cake and not relied upon.
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Great point in DoDMERB by @usnabgo08
Once DoDMERB has been asked to initiate the med review process by one “client” officer program, the results are available to all. The candidate may not know when another SA has accessed the results until a portal change occurs.
Once DoDMERB has been asked to initiate the med review process by one “client” officer program, the results are available to all. The candidate may not know when another SA has accessed the results until a portal change occurs.
West Point has more people assigned to admissions, something like 2 officers and 1 civilian per region. USNA has one O-3 OR one civilian for each with some gaps. During the summer and fall they may be temporarily supplemented by some TAD O-1s.
Does the Army prioritize billeting for their service academy more than the Navy/USMC does? Probably. Does the Navy care less about candidates and parents getting the "warm and fuzzy" from the admissions team? Probably.
The process works, and Navy still gets their yearly ~1200 plebes. Very likely the process will not be changing unless enrollment manages to drop.
If we structured ourselves like the Army does, we'd be fitting 5000 people on a destroyer, and spend the price of a aircraft carrier to set up a logistics command ten times that size to sustain each ship for the next ten years.
The Navy doesn't work that way. We main and equip our ships enough to function and sustain them to next Sunday. And that fundamental attitude extends everywhere.
Does the Army prioritize billeting for their service academy more than the Navy/USMC does? Probably. Does the Navy care less about candidates and parents getting the "warm and fuzzy" from the admissions team? Probably.
The process works, and Navy still gets their yearly ~1200 plebes. Very likely the process will not be changing unless enrollment manages to drop.
If we structured ourselves like the Army does, we'd be fitting 5000 people on a destroyer, and spend the price of a aircraft carrier to set up a logistics command ten times that size to sustain each ship for the next ten years.
The Navy doesn't work that way. We main and equip our ships enough to function and sustain them to next Sunday. And that fundamental attitude extends everywhere.
gniyji
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True ! In Maryland, the number seeking senators nomination (can only select one SA) for USNA is twice as many as for USMA. If that is also the case of number of applications, USNA, as the top dog, is understaffed. At the meantime, USMA takes every advantage to pick top dogs from application pools.USMA has to work harder to recruit. Usually that happens when you go against the top dog.
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Another aspect of the organizational differences to expand on my note above, beautifully described. And again - not wrong, but different, culturally and organizationally.
An anecdote. When I was a USNA BattO and O-Rep for the women’s basketball team, it was just me. I:
- met with the team captain on professional issues such as road trip uniforms and any special request chits and “state of the locker room”
- worked with the designated assistant coach to review the team accommodations, logistics and meals for road games and tournaments
- coordinated with our bus driver to ensure we had maps and directions (no Google maps just yet), made sure we had one of the buses with a head for longer trips (not all Navy buses at the time had heads)
- collected the per diem check for the team for travel meals from NAAA and converted it to cash, disbursed it as needed, submitted post-trip reports
- worked with the team faculty advisor to review grades and ensure everyone was okay to travel
- carried the binder with emergency contacts (Dant’s standing orders, “call me anytime”), SOPs, athletic movement order, etc., for road games
- coordinated with the team captain and King Hall for the favorite game day meal (chicken and pasta, salad, ice cream)
- attended every game, and was usually at practice at Alumni Hall, much easier to chat with team members than on a game day
- and many other related duties.
All that is context. The first time I traveled to West Point with the team, we went over to the basketball gym for the shoot-around. I looked around to find my counterpart to introduce myself, as a courtesy. I found a colonel, a major and 2 NCOs who were the team staff support, solely for the women’s team. I was surprised, and then, not. That was just their way. That was also that colonel’s only collateral support duty. I was also O-Rep for “The Log,” “The Lucky Bag,” one of the classes, and a few other things, a fairly typical BattO solo load.
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I would just like to note… the women’s basketball team followed all the rules exactly and the locker room was immaculate…
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Of course they did. I always let the team captain know when I was inspecting and what I didn’t expect to see. And I never did see…you know.I would just like to note… the women’s basketball team followed all the rules exactly and the locker room was immaculate…
KrakenMa
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For us, it was questions like “I sent my SAT scores a month ago but they aren’t showing as complete”, or “my CFA isn’t posted from NASS, does that mean I should take it again?” I agree candidates should exhaust the info on the website before reaching out, but at least with my kid, sometimes the portal didn’t work as expected and he just wanted direction on whether to keep submitting something over and over or whether it was a portal glitch.
It’s easy say “be patient and trust the process”, and that may be good advice, but once senior year starts, that sense of urgency and angst really kicks in. Sometimes you just want an answer to know if you can put a task to bed and not have to keep following up bc the receiving entity is having a glitch.
FWIW DS’s BGO was great but he didn’t seem to have access to any of that detailed info.
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All of that is true. And real. And I experienced it as a mom of an applicant.
What we figured out was that time and patience don’t always align. And if it isn’t March 1, and your portals haven’t updated, be patient. Post March 1 the squeaky wheel method may have an impact that is important to closing out or finalizing an applicant’s file. Just my two cents.
KrakenMa
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I’m just glad we got through it and he’s survived Plebe Summer and seems to love academy life. Wishing everyone in this cycle all the luck and patience.
We will see if #2 decides to pursue the academy life in 2 years - after I-day he said “absolutely not”, but after PPW he is coming around to the idea.
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Maryland really isn't a good indicator of relative application rates ---of course more people are aware of, and apply to USNA from Maryland. Same is true of other Navy-centric regions , often referred to as "highly competitive" regions on SAF. I'm sure West Point has similar issues where there is a large military concentration.
I used to know my counterpart West Point FIeld Forces Officer pretty well (he moved last year), and it was pretty clear that they had a different perspective --acting more as recruiters, making candidates feel wanted, than I do as a BGO.
BGO's really don't have much more info than Candidates when it comes to tracking progress. Neither BGO's or Candidates need much of the info people look for on BGIS. There are several items on the application that have to be reviewed and verified manually before they are noted as "received" in BGIS/CGIS, and with the volume that comes in , particularly at this time of the year , it may take weeks before the checkmarks show. Yes, be patient and trust the process..it works !