USNA Weapons training

grahamtorr65

grahamtorr65

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DS to enter Plebe Summer this year for Class of '21 and we have a friend who is LEO SWAT who is offering some advanced training so as he will be familiar if/when they participate in these exercises.
Does anyone know what they are likely to be using? Standard M4 Patrolman w/ iron sights or with advanced optics (red dot etc)? 1911 .45?
 
If I remember correctly the rifle was an M16 and the pistol was a M9. I can't remember if we used iron sights or had a scope. If it was scoped, it certainly wasn't anything fancy.

I am sure if your friend is Law Enforcement then he will give good advice, but on range day they expect everybody to come in with zero background (in fact they almost prefer it), so it's definitely not a necessary to get training beforehand. I'm not trying to dissuade people from shooting before PS (it'd probably be a cool/fun thing to do) but I don't want anybody thinking they'll be at a disadvantage if they don't get coaching beforehand.

On another note, more likely than not your son will be able to count on one hand the number of times he is required to shoot during his entire time at the Academy. Now, there definitely are opportunities depending on what summer training assignments you get and if you make the Combat Arms/ Infantry Skills teams to shoot significantly more, but shooting typically isn't something we get to do very often.
 
M-16 and 9mm is the standard. Iron sights. And agree with above... shooting is not something done a lot at USNA a lot. Plebe Summer they spend 1 day at the range. They cover the basics and teach it from the ground up regardless of background. I had a Navy SEAL as a Plebe many moons ago. He did the same shooting as the others even though he could of done that course of fire with his eyes closed and only one hand. Agree it's not necessary to learn to fire before I Day. Sure it's fun to go to the range, but not a requirement in case others are reading this. Learning weapons safety and getting comfortable with a weapon can't hurt. If you listen to your weapons detailers (different upperclass than your Plebe Summer detailers) and follow their instructions you will do fine PS.
 
The biggest advantage to doing some training ahead of time is to get sharpshooter or expert on either or both weapons. That gives the Mid a little bit of a differentiator with classmates. My son managed expert on both and a few times, other Mids have mentioned it when I was with them. Usually something like "that's really cool" or what not. Anything that's different is welcome.
 
DS has handled various weapons -- rifles, shotguns, pistols, crossbow, you name it -- for years. He also shot on his high school rifle team. Not surprisingly, he achieved expert on both rifle and pistol. What was surprising to him was the number of plebes who also qualified expert and had never picked up a weapon before Plebe Summer. Apparently, prior experience with weapons isn't necessarily a predictor of success with weapons training during PS.
 
OP: you have gotten great responses thus far.

coachkarl said:
The biggest advantage to doing some training ahead of time is to get sharpshooter or expert on either or both weapons.
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The best thing your SWAT can provide is training in the basic aspects of marksmanship. Sight alignment, stable base, trigger pull, etc. It doesn't really matter what weapon he learns it on. Those skills apply to all of them.
 
Certainly not necessary, and to some extent, could be a detriment. While I am sure OP friend is well qualified, there is an old saying that applies to many things , ie. "There is right way, a wrong way, and the Navy way...." I am sure Navy has their way of firearms training, and that is what will be taught during Plebe Summer, and it could be difficult unlearning old habits. (For example, there are several schools of thought on how to grip a handgun, stance, etc). Its been many years, but I remember a lot of classmates who had never handled a gun before qualified as Expert. On the other hand, if OP son has never used or been around guns, I would say a fun shoot, without pressure or to much emphasis on technique, might help get him more comfortable around guns.
 
^ agree 100%.

I showed up to my initial training with no weapons experience and did what Uncle Sam taught me. Walked away with the course record (that year) on rifle and double expert (rifle and pistol).
 
BDHuff09 said:
If I remember correctly the rifle was an M16 and the pistol was a M9. I can't remember if we used iron sights or had a scope. If it was scoped, it certainly wasn't anything fancy.

I am sure if your friend is Law Enforcement then he will give good advice, but on range day they expect everybody to come in with zero background (in fact they almost prefer it), so it's definitely not a necessary to get training beforehand. I'm not trying to dissuade people from shooting before PS (it'd probably be a cool/fun thing to do) but I don't want anybody thinking they'll be at a disadvantage if they don't get coaching beforehand.

On another note, more likely than not your son will be able to count on one hand the number of times he is required to shoot during his entire time at the Academy. Now, there definitely are opportunities depending on what summer training assignments you get and if you make the Combat Arms/ Infantry Skills teams to shoot significantly more, but shooting typically isn't something we get to do very often.
Click to expand...
Thanks for the insight and advice.
 
USMCGrunt said:
^ agree 100%.

I showed up to my initial training with no weapons experience and did what Uncle Sam taught me. Walked away with the course record (that year) on rifle and double expert (rifle and pistol).
Click to expand...
Say no more. I appreciate the feedback.
 
Just my 2 cents. An explanation on firearm nomenclature and the understanding of how it goes bang would be worth it. As was said above, I would agree that marksmanship skills should be left to the Navy.
 
My sons (twins) entered the academy with virtually ZERO experience with a gun. Our family doesn't own a gun and they've never been hunting. When I saw them on Plebe Parents Weekend, they were both wearing two ribbons, an "E" (Expert) for both rifle and pistol. I asked them, "How in the hell did you guys manage that - you've never shot a gun in your life?" They looked at me, rolled their eyes and said, "Video games." They weren't kidding, either. They've killed a million zombies and other things on their XBox over the years.

Anybody who isn't afraid of the weapon, can follow instructions, and has an ounce of coordination can accurately fire a weapon.

I don't know why I was so surprised. I didn't grow up with guns, either. When I was a Plebe I got an "E" for pistol. We didn't do rifles back then.
 
NavyHoops said:
M-16 and 9mm is the standard. Iron sights. And agree with above... shooting is not something done a lot at USNA a lot. Plebe Summer they spend 1 day at the range. They cover the basics and teach it from the ground up regardless of background. I had a Navy SEAL as a Plebe many moons ago. He did the same shooting as the others even though he could of done that course of fire with his eyes closed and only one hand. Agree it's not necessary to learn to fire before I Day. Sure it's fun to go to the range, but not a requirement in case others are reading this. Learning weapons safety and getting comfortable with a weapon can't hurt. If you listen to your weapons detailers (different upperclass than your Plebe Summer detailers) and follow their instructions you will do fine PS.
Click to expand...

Ya,---or --------------- you could use Navy Weapons Training to convince your wife to agree to the purchase of a SIG SAUER P226 and 5000 runs of 9mm. Obviously the weapons element of PS will be less stressful for her DD if DD has gained some proficiency before IDay.

I think I still have around 4500 rounds, and (sadly) DD is not allowed to have a weapon with her on base, so the SIG had to stay here at home with me, but over all it was a positive effort/purchase.

Seriously, while I am sure you don't need adv. weapons training entering Annapolis, IMU(uninformed)O a trip to a range makes sense for some Pre-Plebes. Things lean a bit to the left here East of Seattle in the shadow of MicroSoft. Every information source my daughters had in the first 18 years of their lives taught that the weapon itself is evil. You should have seen my other daughter pick up the referenced SIG the first couple of times. She looked like she was picking up V0ldemort's Wand or some cagadota from the lawn. I think a trip to the range is more than "fun" for some Pre-Plebes. Knowing what a gun (particularly a handgun) feels like when a round is fired, not pulling a trigger for the first time in front of "The Cadre", that ought to remove just a tiny bit of the overall stress of PS for kids who've never touched a gun. From what I can tell any PS stress reduction is a good thing. My DD didn't get an E rating, but she did say that she was confident when she stepped up to the line to shoot. BTW for those of you outside of Texas, be advised that most gun ranges will rent you gun to use while at the range (just a couple of $).

Gotta add that here in "Wanna-be San Francisco" that trip to a range was the first (maybe the only) time around here where strangers registered approval/awe at my DD's appointment to the USNA. She didn't have to explain that the USNA is a college, they wouldn't take my money, they put her in "members range", and one by one guys walked in to provide her hands-on instruction...............................(wait o_O?!?)
 
Just Dad said:
Ya,---or --------------- you could use Navy Weapons Training to convince your wife to agree to the purchase of a SIG SAUER P226 and 5000 runs of 9mm. Obviously the weapons element of PS will be less stressful for her DD if DD has gained some proficiency before IDay.)
Click to expand...

^^ Diagnosis -- A just rationale for buying another Sig Sauer handgun. I never thought of this, maybe I can convince my wife that buying another Sig is necessary so I can take my candidates to the range for familiarization before attending Plebe Summer.

Seriously, that's what I was talking about when I mentioned a simple familiarization session. It is certainly not necessary (you don't have go out of your way to take DS/DD to a range), but it might make them more comfortable when they handle a gun for the first time.
 
My Son and Daughter were not very familiar with the weapons they would have to qualify with. It won't be a 30/30, 30/06 or 243 with scopes. I brought them to a range where they could get instruction with M16 and 9MM. They knew the basics and did well and it probably made them more comfortable with the weapons used for qualification. My Son's Christmas Present last year was a 1911 colt. I almost kept it.
 
Well-----they do heat up, and theres that "down time" to reload a single gun------there are some efficiencies to be gained; she will understand.
 
"This is your rifle and this is your gun". Learn the serial number and the nomenclature of your rifle or you will be doing pushups until the cows come home. I think I remember when they changed the M16 to three rounds on full auto with one trigger pull because they were expending too much ammunition. Easy to go empty with one pull on full auto. A full magazine can empty pretty fast.
 
acadmful said:
Can students go to the range on their own time during the school year?
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No. There are some ECA's like Combat Arms Team (CAT), Infantry Skills Team (IST), and the High Powered-Rifle Team (HPRT) that afford their members the opportunity to shoot a couple times a week. All of the above are competitive and you have to tryout for them. For CAT and IST the tryout is not based on shooting but a "screener" and an interview. HPRT tryout is based on shooting.

There are no opportunities for regular Joe Schmoe midshipman to go to the range during the year besides these ECAs
 
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