West Point Varsity Athletics

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YoHanNee

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Hi guys. I am currently a senior who is applying for West Point. I have a questions regarding the significance of Varsity Athletics at West Point. While I have not played on my high schools varsity teams, I was an active JV Cross Country runner. I have leadership positions in my school's orchestra, solid grades and SAT scores. Yet the West Point Class profiles page (https://www.westpoint.edu/admissions/class-profile) reveals 1200 out of 1210 West Point's class did varsity sports. This has been concerning to me from the start.

During my Congressional nomination interviews, they told me because I do not have any varsity sports, I should prove myself with an expectational CFA score. Yet, many people tell me that the CFA is a pass/fail event, not a percentile event that holds great significance

One of my friends told me that West Point considers JV athletes varsity athletes, but I do not know how true this is. What do you guys think? If a candidate has no varsity athletics is it a big obstacle to overcome? Will getting a solid CFA score help with that obstacle? And is what my friend said really true? Thanks for your help
 
While the stat is out there, I do not believe the statistic. It is inconceivable that roughly 40 students out of 4000 at the school did not participate in varsity sports. Admissions would be the one to provide absolute clarity on the number.
 
shiner said:
While the stat is out there, I do not believe the statistic. It is inconceivable that roughly 40 students out of 4000 at the school did not participate in varsity sports. Admissions would be the one to provide absolute clarity on the number.
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I saw the same thing at USMA.edu class profile link for 2020. Astonishingly high.

Class Profile | United States Military Academy West Point

West Point Military Academy
www.westpoint.edu www.westpoint.edu
 
The source you cite is a bit misleading. The number I’ve read and heard most often is that about 90% of DOD SA cadets/mids played varsity sports. That seems to roughly correspond with the “letter winners” on the USMA website. But I’m not certain.

SAs value varsity sports participation because it’s an outstanding way to develop leadership, teamwork, competitiveness, resilience, discipline, perseverance and time management. You need to show them that despite not playing varsity sports, you’ve developed those traits. Many other activities can help you attain them.

The CFA tells another story: Are you adequately fit to tackle the physical rigors of SA life? It does not necessarily measure the same things implied by varsity sports participation. Related, but not the same thing.
 
The page I saw for USNA said 91% played varsity sports. Does not imply letter winners

but then the % of incoming plebs who were sports captains in HS is also very high.

I am not as surprised as some the % are this high. I would kind of expect this for a variety of reasons.
 
DS is current plebe. He participated on JROTC ranger team as a sophomore. At a USMA information session he inquired if the ranger team participation "counted" as a sport. The Regional Commander asked if a letter was awarded for the ranger team and in DS's case no letter is given by the school. The advice was to participate in a sport that awarded a letter and try to earn that letter. I think that varsity athletics calculates more points in the whole candidate score, and thus the high number of persons admitted who participated in varsity athletics.
 
shiner said:
They are consistent in using similar numbers across different class profiles, but I can only conclude the number does not represent what I would think it means on face value.

For the class of 2024 - they admitted 1232 and that figure includes 12 foreign nationals. 1218 of that number had varsity sports experience?
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My thought too - what all “counts.” I think I have read posts on USMA forum martial art black belt is included under varsity sports, but that is a recollection.
 
@Small Team Bacsi their public data breaks out - was on varsity team, earned a varsity letter, and then was team captain. Historic data aligns with the 91% stat you reference:
R-Day AdmitsVarsity% of Class
2008​
1220​
1072​
88%​
2009​
1246​
1138​
91%​
2010​
1309​
1146​
88%​
2011​
1297​
1127​
87%​
2012​
1255​
1231​
98%​
2013​
2014​
1375​
1233​
90%​
2015​
1267​
1155​
91%​
2016​
1193​
1079​
90%​
2017​
1190​
1094​
92%​
2018​
1223​
1050​
86%​
2019​
1262​
1088​
86%​
2020​
1302​
1294​
99%​
2021​
1243​
1221​
98%​
2022​
1210​
1200​
99%​
2023​
1202​
1186​
99%​

The key to this figure is WHAT COUNTS - like Capt MJ said above.


DATA SOURCE: https://www.westpoint.edu/about/west-point-staff/g5/institutional-research/class-characteristics
 
YoHanNee said:
Hi guys. I am currently a senior who is applying for West Point. I have a questions regarding the significance of Varsity Athletics at West Point. While I have not played on my high schools varsity teams, I was an active JV Cross Country runner. I have leadership positions in my school's orchestra, solid grades and SAT scores. Yet the West Point Class profiles page (https://www.westpoint.edu/admissions/class-profile) reveals 1200 out of 1210 West Point's class did varsity sports. This has been concerning to me from the start.

During my Congressional nomination interviews, they told me because I do not have any varsity sports, I should prove myself with an expectational CFA score. Yet, many people tell me that the CFA is a pass/fail event, not a percentile event that holds great significance

One of my friends told me that West Point considers JV athletes varsity athletes, but I do not know how true this is. What do you guys think? If a candidate has no varsity athletics is it a big obstacle to overcome? Will getting a solid CFA score help with that obstacle? And is what my friend said really true? Thanks for your help
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DS ran cross country last two years of high school to check that box but didn't realize WP counted his 2nd-degree blackbelt as a varsity sport and
his school decided to count JROTC as a varsity letter because of all the activities they do(Raiders, exhibition drill team, armed and unarmed drill, and color guard.) Don't know if any of those others would apply to you but some things you wouldn't think of as being a varsity sport were counted in my DS's case.
 
MidCakePa said:
The source you cite is a bit misleading. The number I’ve read and heard most often is that about 90% of DOD SA cadets/mids played varsity sports. That seems to roughly correspond with the “letter winners” on the USMA website. But I’m not certain.

SAs value varsity sports participation because it’s an outstanding way to develop leadership, teamwork, competitiveness, resilience, discipline, perseverance and time management. You need to show them that despite not playing varsity sports, you’ve developed those traits. Many other activities can help you attain them.

The CFA tells another story: Are you adequately fit to tackle the physical rigors of SA life? It does not necessarily measure the same things implied by varsity sports participation. Related, but not the same thing.
Click to expand...
I am just worried about the significance of a varsity letter/varsity experience. Maybe candidates who never played varsity sports rarely pass the CFA, leading to naturally low levels of Candidates who didn't play varsity sports. Or maybe a varsity letter just adds a significant amount of points to your overall application.
 
YoHanNee said:
I am just worried about the significance of a varsity letter/varsity experience. Maybe candidates who never played varsity sports rarely pass the CFA, leading to naturally low levels of Candidates who didn't play varsity sports. Or maybe a varsity letter just adds a significant amount of points to your overall application.
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Or more likely those who play varsity sports are the types who normally apply.

The senior year is not the time to worry about something you can’t change and is now out of your hands.
 
YoHanNee said:
One of my friends told me that West Point considers JV athletes varsity athletes, but I do not know how true this is. What do you guys think? If a candidate has no varsity athletics is it a big obstacle to overcome? Will getting a solid CFA score help with that obstacle? And is what my friend said really true? Thanks for your help
Click to expand...
Your friend's claim that West Point considers JV athletes to be Varsity athletes is not correct. Two Varsity letters are better than one. Three are better than two. Whole Candidate Score points are the goal vis-a-vis an appointment. Points awarded for passing the CFA are a different category than the points awarded for Varsity sports.

It is fair to be worried about the Varsity sport issue as a candidate who did not play any. But, that ship has sailed. You should focus on your strengths so that you can accumulate as many WCS points as possible and increase your likelihood of an appointment. An excellent CFA score will earn you a few more points than one that is barely passing. Bear in mind that if you have demonstrated great leadership in high school, have great grades, standardized test scores, etc., you can overcome the lack of Varsity sports. It happens. Good luck. No point in worrying about the things you cannot change.
 
What an interesting thread. I would think that most homeschooled candidates would not have varsity experience but then after reading here what WP considers 'varisty' I can see how homeschooled students may be considered varsity sports players.

My son was homeschooled but he was a black belt in his form of karate so I guess he was considered to have a varsity sport. I had no idea. He was also the team captain of his hockey team for a few seasons, but that was a town rec team (during this high school years) and not an official high school team.
 
YoHanNee said:
I am just worried about the significance of a varsity letter/varsity experience. Maybe candidates who never played varsity sports rarely pass the CFA, leading to naturally low levels of Candidates who didn't play varsity sports. Or maybe a varsity letter just adds a significant amount of points to your overall application.
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Correlation vs Causality.

West Point is a very physical environment and thus attracts people who engage in physical activities. In high school this translates to organized sports for most candidates. A very high correlation, but only for a recruited athlete is participation in a sport the cause of an appointment.

It's all about the WCS points. The admissions committee does not compare two candidates and appoint the one who is a varsity athlete. They appoint the one one with the highest WCS score. More than enough Leadership WCS points can be earned through non-athletic activities to earn an appointment. However, high school students who do not participate in school sports are far less likely to be attracted to a rigorous physical environment. Add to that the likelihood of a non-athlete passing the CFA. This leads to a pool of qualified applicants in which athletes are way over-represented, so it is not surprising that so many appointees played varsity sports.

However, a candidate who demonstrates leadership in non-athletic activities and passes the CFA has the same chance of appointment as a varsity athlete with similar qualifications.

Varsity vs Junior Varsity. A varsity sport earns more WCS points than a JV sport. A candidate who plays sports below the varsity level should probably have leadership points outside of sports to be most competitive. It does not matter where the leadership points come from; a point from orchestra or other school club has no less value than a point from a varsity sport. In the end it is the total WCS points that matter.
 
bookreader said:
What an interesting thread. I would think that most homeschooled candidates would not have varsity experience but then after reading here what WP considers 'varisty' I can see how homeschooled students may be considered varsity sports players.

My son was homeschooled but he was a black belt in his form of karate so I guess he was considered to have a varsity sport. I had no idea. He was also the team captain of his hockey team for a few seasons, but that was a town rec team (during this high school years) and not an official high school team.
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This is a very significant point. The Regional Commander will make judgement calls on such situations and award WCS points accordingly.

The application has check boxes for the standard activities and positions normally offered at a high school and a specific number of WCS points are awarded for these activities (Black Belt in martial arts is one of the check boxes). That is why a candidate playing sports outside of a formal high school program should carefully explain involvement in those activities in the comments section on the application and in an email to the RC. Points can only be awarded if the RC has the information.

In particular, many club soccer and hockey programs compete at a level well above the varsity high school level. It would be misleading not to classify these candidates as varsity athletes.
 
Hi - my son does a non school (club) sport so no letters or captain positions - but he is a multiple time national qualifier at the highest level possible - he was able to highlight this in his application and made sure that the RC was aware. His FFR was also very helpful in how to explain it to admissions.
 
dddad said:
Your friend's claim that West Point considers JV athletes to be Varsity athletes is not correct. Two Varsity letters are better than one. Three are better than two. Whole Candidate Score points are the goal vis-a-vis an appointment. Points awarded for passing the CFA are a different category than the points awarded for Varsity sports.

It is fair to be worried about the Varsity sport issue as a candidate who did not play any. But, that ship has sailed. You should focus on your strengths so that you can accumulate as many WCS points as possible and increase your likelihood of an appointment. An excellent CFA score will earn you a few more points than one that is barely passing. Bear in mind that if you have demonstrated great leadership in high school, have great grades, standardized test scores, etc., you can overcome the lack of Varsity sports. It happens. Good luck. No point in worrying about the things you cannot change.
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Thanks for the advice. You're right, worrying about this wont change anything. All I need to do now is have my Field Force interview and CFA, so I will have to focus on the things that I can change in this very moment.
 
YoHanNee said:
Thanks for the advice. You're right, worrying about this wont change anything. All I need to do now is have my Field Force interview and CFA, so I will have to focus on the things that I can change in this very moment.
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Crush the CFA and don't worry about that FFR interview. Be prepared to discuss the fact that you weren't a Varsity athlete. But, don't worry about it. After all, a JV athlete can exhibit leadership, teamwork, etc., and have learned the same lessons as a Varsity athlete. So, emphasize your strengths. Good luck!
 
My2Wrestlers said:
Hi - my son does a non school (club) sport so no letters or captain positions - but he is a multiple time national qualifier at the highest level possible - he was able to highlight this in his application and made sure that the RC was aware. His FFR was also very helpful in how to explain it to admissions.
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Fantastic. It should help quite a bit. The application does capture achievements and recognition at higher levels and that adds WCS points.

If he is a wrestler, he should contact the coach if he is interested in continuing at West Point. West Point's team is outstanding and does recruit.
 
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