DS has his heart set on the USAFA. He is near top of class, Eagle Scout, Class officer, Boys State, multiple robotics and engineering teams, varsity and club athlete, all the required and also lots of extra stuff. He could be a D3 player in his sport, but maybe not D1. We are from one of the small, highly competitive, states in the Northeast. I recently learned that two players from our county (not just our state!) have pre-committed to USAFA for their sport. What does that mean for my DS's chances of getting a MOC nom or an appointment? Do the committed players automatically get preference for a nomination and/or an appointment? How involved are the USAFA coaches in advocating that their picks are "first in line" so to speak? I might add that DS does not fit into any DEI category nor does our family have a military background (other than being drafted for the big wars in the past). It seems like there are so few spots that could go to someone from our small state under normal circumstances. Add to that, if two spots are already taken by sports recruits, is it correct to assume that my DS, with all his other accolades, may not have a spot available to even compete for? Can someone confirm if my assessment is correct or if I'm not looking at this correctly? Thanks!
What are the effects of multiple Athletic Commitments given in one county in a small state
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This comes up each and every year.
- First, the athletic recruit committal at a service academy promises them a spot on the team IF they are admitted. It is not the same hard admission as at civilian schools. They must be fully qualified (medical/DoDMERB Q or waiver; athletic/pass CFA; academic-scholastic/everything else that is evaluated). They must also have a nomination.
- Every year, recruited athletes who have committed fail to earn an appointment because they do not qualify in some aspect.
- MOC nom processes are independent of service academy application processes.
- Many recruited athletes are sent to the service prep schools, USAFAPS, USMAPS, NAPS, which removes them from the competition in the current class Admissions cycle and saves them a spot in the following year’s class. They will still need to successfully complete prep school, be fully qualified and have a nom - but now they are eligible for the enlisted service nom, as they will have enlisted status at the prep school. They also apply for other noms.
- For the Class of 2029, MOCs can submit a slate (list) of up to 15 names (up from 10 in previous years) for their open slot(s) at USAFA. One of the fully-qualified candidates on the slate will be offered the appointment charged to the MOC as one of their 5 appointments spread out over 4 class years at USAFA. But - good news - Admissions can come back to the slate and offer other fully-qualified candidates an appointment, which they charge to other nom authorities they manage.
- Others on that same slate may be offered appointments which are charged to other nom sources they applied to - such as Presidential, ROTC, etc.
- Service academies encourage candidates to all nom sources for which they are eligible, usually 4 at a minimum - 3 MOC and VP, plus any others they are eligible for, such as Presidential, JROTC or college ROTC, etc. If the SA wishes to offer an appointment, this gives them flexibility as to where to charge it. Note: USMMA nom sources are slightly different. USCGA is not required to use nom process.
Finally, as we say in the Navy, “Eyes in the boat!” SA applications are long, complicated and torturous, with many unknowns. Your son (and parents) should resist the urge to look right or left. You cannot see the entirety of others’ applications, and you can drive yourself crazy thinking about which “X” stat was less than yours and somehow they got a nom and an appointment, or that they are in some special varsity athlete step-skipping process.
Work the process and stay the course - and develop solid alternative plans.
- First, the athletic recruit committal at a service academy promises them a spot on the team IF they are admitted. It is not the same hard admission as at civilian schools. They must be fully qualified (medical/DoDMERB Q or waiver; athletic/pass CFA; academic-scholastic/everything else that is evaluated). They must also have a nomination.
- Every year, recruited athletes who have committed fail to earn an appointment because they do not qualify in some aspect.
- MOC nom processes are independent of service academy application processes.
- Many recruited athletes are sent to the service prep schools, USAFAPS, USMAPS, NAPS, which removes them from the competition in the current class Admissions cycle and saves them a spot in the following year’s class. They will still need to successfully complete prep school, be fully qualified and have a nom - but now they are eligible for the enlisted service nom, as they will have enlisted status at the prep school. They also apply for other noms.
- For the Class of 2029, MOCs can submit a slate (list) of up to 15 names (up from 10 in previous years) for their open slot(s) at USAFA. One of the fully-qualified candidates on the slate will be offered the appointment charged to the MOC as one of their 5 appointments spread out over 4 class years at USAFA. But - good news - Admissions can come back to the slate and offer other fully-qualified candidates an appointment, which they charge to other nom authorities they manage.
- Others on that same slate may be offered appointments which are charged to other nom sources they applied to - such as Presidential, ROTC, etc.
- Service academies encourage candidates to all nom sources for which they are eligible, usually 4 at a minimum - 3 MOC and VP, plus any others they are eligible for, such as Presidential, JROTC or college ROTC, etc. If the SA wishes to offer an appointment, this gives them flexibility as to where to charge it. Note: USMMA nom sources are slightly different. USCGA is not required to use nom process.
Finally, as we say in the Navy, “Eyes in the boat!” SA applications are long, complicated and torturous, with many unknowns. Your son (and parents) should resist the urge to look right or left. You cannot see the entirety of others’ applications, and you can drive yourself crazy thinking about which “X” stat was less than yours and somehow they got a nom and an appointment, or that they are in some special varsity athlete step-skipping process.
Work the process and stay the course - and develop solid alternative plans.
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I very much appreciate your considered response! Before posting, I had seen a similar response when I did a prior search for my question (probably from you!). While there is a lot of info there, the main question is still left a little hanging, from my interpretation anyway. It would be helpful to know what the USAFA coaches' roles are in ushering through or advocating for their recruits (as coaches do in regular universities). I couldn't help but notice that the word used above was that the athletes have to "qualify" which connotes a minimum standard. Do the athletes need to be competitive across the board or just pass the minimum standard? Would it ever happen that an athlete who may merely "qualify" loses a spot to someone who is not a sports recruit but excels in every other area?
Also, as far as MOCs go, a smaller state has fewer representatives, so I assume that leads to fewer nominations and therefore fewer appointments from a smaller state. Can you tell me if that is a correct assumption? Is there somewhere to see the breakdown state-by-state because that's not something in the Common Data Set.
And while I like the saying, "Eyes in the boat", everyone needs someone to watch their back and check out the lay of the land too.
Also, as far as MOCs go, a smaller state has fewer representatives, so I assume that leads to fewer nominations and therefore fewer appointments from a smaller state. Can you tell me if that is a correct assumption? Is there somewhere to see the breakdown state-by-state because that's not something in the Common Data Set.
And while I like the saying, "Eyes in the boat", everyone needs someone to watch their back and check out the lay of the land too.
A1Janitor
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It’s still a competition to win the slates. If your WPS/WCS is higher than the recruited athletes and you win the slate - the athletes can be charged elsewhere.
My son was told by his MOC staff that there was a recruit for football applying for my son’s USNA slate. My son gave it exactly 1 minute of thought, knowing that the athlete had to compete against him for the slate. My son graduated USNA - the only one his year from our district.
My son was told by his MOC staff that there was a recruit for football applying for my son’s USNA slate. My son gave it exactly 1 minute of thought, knowing that the athlete had to compete against him for the slate. My son graduated USNA - the only one his year from our district.
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For all SAs, it’s a little murky about how much engagement and influence coaches have and how it works. The SA has a number of discretionary nominations it controls that are distinct from MOC noms and cannot be applied for. How those are strategically used is not shared. You may also see the term “blue chip,” used sparingly and for highly desired sports recruits. If someone absolutely is too weak academically, the prep school option I mentioned is often used. USAFA is bound to only admit those they deem fully qualified in the areas I mentioned. Those internal guidelines are not published.I very much appreciate your considered response! Before posting, I had seen a similar response when I did a prior search for my question (probably from you!). While there is a lot of info there, the main question is still left a little hanging, from my interpretation anyway. It would be helpful to know what the USAFA coaches' roles are in ushering through or advocating for their recruits (as coaches do in regular universities). I couldn't help but notice that the word used above was that the athletes have to "qualify" which connotes a minimum standard. Do the athletes need to be competitive across the board or just pass the minimum standard? Would it ever happen that an athlete who may merely "qualify" loses a spot to someone who is not a sports recruit but excels in every other area?
Also, as far as MOCs go, a smaller state has fewer representatives, so I assume that leads to fewer nominations and therefore fewer appointments from a smaller state. Can you tell me if that is a correct assumption? Is there somewhere to see the breakdown state-by-state because that's not something in the Common Data Set.
And while I like the saying, "Eyes in the boat", everyone needs someone to watch their back and check out the lay of the land too.
As far as fewer appointments resulting from fewer Representatives due to state size, well yes - but your son’s competition in your District will be only those applicants from your District. If he makes it onto the slate of 15, his competition for the appointment charged to the Representative is any of the 14 who are deemed fully qualified - exactly the same as an applicant from, say, CA, who is competing for a place on a slate of 15 in his or her District, and then for the appointment. No difference. An applicant may only apply to the 2 Senators and their district Representative. Obviously, the 2 Senators are a common factor across all 50 states (DC, Puerto Rico,Territories are otherwise specified), with 5 appointment slots for each Senator for each DoD SA (USMMA slightly different, USCGA no noms) spread across 4 class years. In this case, a less-populated state may be more advantageous than a more-populated state, because the pool of applicants could be smaller. That is really the only variable - state population and District population - and how many people actually apply.
And keep in mind for any slate of 15, one will “win the slate” for the MOC’s appointment slot, but others may be offered appointments charged to the SA’s own nom authorities, ROTC, Presidential, prior enlisted, other service-related, etc. You could have a healthy handful who all happened to be on that nom slate, all with appointments in hand. The MIC s happy to claim and celebrate them all.
I hope this helps.
There is zip you can do about it except forge ahead.
Run your own race. (Or your son should run his own race)
Will those others get a nomination? Will they be qualified? will they choose USAFA? Will they get injured? Will they really get on the team? Will they get charged to other nomination sources?
Who knows?
Your son should apply for USAFA if that is what he wants and also consider ROTC at a civilian school as another plan.
Will those others get a nomination? Will they be qualified? will they choose USAFA? Will they get injured? Will they really get on the team? Will they get charged to other nomination sources?
Who knows?
Your son should apply for USAFA if that is what he wants and also consider ROTC at a civilian school as another plan.
This time of year there will be many headlines that someone has committed to a SA. If you compare those with headlines and those who actually are appointed, it’s a very different story. Some decide to go elsewhere. Some won’t pass DoDMERB. Others will go to prep school. Some athletes have incredible stats and will win their slate regardless of being an athlete or not. Some will have stats that are just over the qualified line. This is no different than any other candidate. The bottom line is none of us know the answer, because there anre so many variables. We see multiple people appointed each year from the same school and districts. All your DS can do is put the best package forward. This is the same for every candidate. It may have zero impact on his chances to get a Nom or it may hurt. It depends on their stats and how high a level of recruit they are (this can change weekly). Like I said, so many variables. Bottom line, is there are tons of things in this process you can control and can’t. Focus one on what he can.
DomerDad
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I agree 100% with @NavyHoops.
I don't pretend to understand how the nominations work, but I can say for sure that the town next to ours (same Congressional District) had 3 young men appointed to USNA (from the same public high school) who all enrolled. Only one of them was a recruited athlete. My DD was also a recruited athlete at USNA and received a nomination from our Congressman along with a Letter of Assurance and ultimate appointment to USNA but instead chose to attend USAFA (as a non-recruited athlete with no LOA) on our Senator's nomination.
That's 4 nominations and appointments to USNA from one Congressional District in a large state (NY) so there weren't many Senatorial nominations available per capita. Your son's chances should be better from a small state. The number of per-capita Congressional nominations is similar across each district because districts are created based on population. Small states have more Senatorial nominations per capita than large states.
I met the above-mentioned three young men at an all-academy/ROTC regional send-off dinner and they were all quite impressive. At least one of the boys was also admitted to USMA and USAFA as a non-recruited athlete. I have learned that if your child is a rock star, and a service academy wants them bad enough, nominations can be found.
Your DS sounds like a very impressive young man. I would have your son take the ACT and SAT practice tests and focus his prep on the one he scores better on. I would also encourage him to seek as many leadership opportunities as he can find and do his best to become the captain of his team. He should also practice interviewing with adults. If he does all of that, he should be fine.
Stick to the game plan and get all of the required documents submitted ahead of time. My DD just graduated from USAFA was in a similar situation. She had one nomination to the AF Academy and on her slate was a recruited athlete. We are friends with the other family so we followed along with what was going on with their son. He was very qualified in all aspects such as having 35 on ACT, 4.0 GPA, team captain and so on. The coach told him that they would not use a blue chip on him because of his qualifications and would pull him off of a nomination if he got one. As I mentioned above he did get a nomination which was was the same nomination source my DD had. He waited until the last day to accept the appointment and on that day our daughter got an e-mail asking her if she would accept a Falcon Foundation Scholarship. Not sure if this was a coincident but for her it was the best thing that could have happened for her.
I've been running this through my mind about what you've all said about athletic commits. Why would a D1 athlete ever commit to any of the SAs without being assured that they are nearly 100% going to be accepted to the SA? Committing to the SA puts that athlete out of the running to commit solidly to another university. And then, say they don't get into the SA. At that point it's too late to resurrect another athletic commitment elsewhere, right? How often then would an athletic commit NOT get in unless there is some very big and surprising problem with the medical exam or something? Without an upfront commitment from the SA side, what would be in it for the athlete?
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Desire to serve outweighing the pull of their sport. I've known quite a few top tier athletes who came to the Service Academies on regular Congressional and other paths open to many.
Can you explain some parts of this to me? I thought the Falcon Scholarship was for an additional year of prep school. Is that what your DD did? You state that she graduated USAFA, was it a year later than she planned after a year of prep school? Also, can you explain the phrase "pull him off of a nomination if he got one." Does that mean he gets awarded the nomination and your DD doesn't get it (or is it the exact opposite)? I'm trying to learn so much so fast. My brain is exploding!
I think I maybe didn't phrase my question correctly. The athletes wouldn't be serving at all, correct, unless they knew they were CERTAINLY getting an eventual appointment.
So this is what I want to ask: Unless an appointment is already a foregone conclusion to being in a mutual verbal commitment situation, why would a D1 athlete use up their "sport recruit clout" early-on for an uncertainty? I don't think they would. I guess what I'm really asking/understanding/stating is that all the sports recruits really are in the front of the line in terms of appointments, are they not? I've gone back and read some old threads now, and it seems that's the case, unless the athlete injures him/herself really, really badly. Are my powers of deduction on point? ( I am talking now about getting an appointment, not a nomination)
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Maybe I don't understand your question. I've known athletes who were determined to serve and applied to Service Academies AND ROTC programs because they were going to serve one way or another. Serving was their primary motivation, not their sport and they were very willing to risk losing their "athlete card" to gain their ultimate goal.
Further, say that an athlete "commits" to a service academy and then does not get in. Unless they were VERY singularly focused, they also applied to other schools and thus went to one of them. If they were true D1 athlete material, they would likely make the team there and either continue there in following years or move to either a service academy or other athletic opportunity elsewhere for follow-on years. Yes, they might not be on scholarship for that first year but that was the gamble that they took to get what they REALLY WANTED. . . to serve.
A1Janitor
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Does a D1 athlete win an appointment on a slate where someone has a better WCS/WPS? Or does the highest WCS/WPS win the slate, and the academy finds a discretionary slot to charge the athlete to?
Kind of. BTW, when you use the term "slate", is that just for nominations? Or is that term used for admissions/appointments as well?
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A slate is the list of nominees submitted by MOC.
I found a decent explanation on this board from 2010. I'll see if I can paste it here.
I did it!!! Anyway, it seems like A LOT of admissions spots get eaten up by athletes who may not even end up playing after sophomore year. And while an athlete may have "good but just ok" stats other than athletics, the athlete could make their way into the SA on slightly lower stats, and stay in regardless of further athletic performance. So, in that case, I can see the athlete's motivation. I still don't like it though. It's a real bummer for someone who has super high stats, but is not a recruited athlete...and, as is my concern from the start, lives in the same area as these recruited athletes.
A1Janitor
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Many of the D1 athletes finish at the top of the class at USNA.
It isn’t a good assumption imo to assume a D1 athlete has lesser stats.
I would go in with the expectation that if you are 3Q and the top scoring candidate, you will get an offer of appointment. I would also assume if you don’t get an appointment, someone else had a higher score on your slate.
One of my clients was the undergraduate admissions director for an Ivy League. A famous D1 athlete got accepted. I assumed it was for basketball. She laughed at me and said he had a perfect academic record in high school and was accepted into the hardest program based on merit.
I totally get what you're saying in general, but I know of the athletes, so these are somewhat educated guesses about the other stats. And it's all hypothetical anyway.
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