Army ROTC 2nd Board Results!

[hrtly]

@MomKukie - not trying to be flippant here:
1. The increase in GPA won't matter. He has already been boarded and I am almost certain that it would not increase his OML
2. Yes - Academics, Athletics, Leadership - If he does not have any leadership, he most likely will not be a good candidate for a scholarship. If he got a poor review from the PMS (as in the box was checked - do not recommend for a scholarship) that would most likely be disqualifying. I am also confused on how the letters of recommendation were missed. It is an important part of the process and I am surprised he was even Board Ready without them.
3. With regards to the SAT/ACT debate. My opinion (it is only my opinion) is that there will be enough candidates that persevered and found a way to take the SAT/ACT. I think there will be enough candidates with a posted score that this will not be a big issue. Will there be people that have no score win a scholarship - probably. For those not posting a score they automatically get a score of 998 (SAT). That score is entered into the OML formula - and the scholarships are awarded based on the OML

So to sum that up in a question. You most definitely are at a disadvantage in terms of the SAT scores if you do not test? given the fact you have a 998 or do they review it differently. Also how many people do you think really weren't able/didn't want to test?

 

[EEBTTF]

So to sum that up in a question. You most definitely are at a disadvantage in terms of the SAT scores if you do not test? given the fact you have a 998 or do they review it differently. Also how many people do you think really weren't able/didn't want to test?

Yes - I think you are at a disadvantage and no they do not review it differently. The 998 is entered into the OML formula and the OML is calculated. That is the easy answer, but there may be some subjective analysis this year to get to the right answer. There are probably a lot of applicants with an SAT above 998. Understand that this is only one part of the packet, but an important one. This year is so different so I am sure there will be 4.0 GPA, Captain of 3 Varsity Teams, Leadership out the wazoo and no SAT that get the nod - I am good with that because it is most likely the best candidate compared to a 1400 SAT and no leadership or athletics.
@Montana State Army ROTC or @MohawkArmyROTC can comment on the numbers of applicants that have not posted a score. My guess is we won't have that data until well after the 3rd Board.

 

[franknd]

Short comment on leadership.

When someone says "leadership" to a high school kid, and, frankly, to many of their parents, people often think of top-of-the-mind examples like team captain, president of this or that extracurricular group, etc. Those are all great examples, but they are NOT the only examples, and I suspect that kids leave chips on the table because they can't point to something obvious like one of those examples. An example that I like to use, and I'm relatively certain it has worked, is being the oldest (or not even the oldest, but an older) sibling, particularly in a family with a more than usual number of kids. That can entail significant leadership experience over a spectrum of activities, but you have to volunteer it and explain it for it to count.

I'm certain there are other examples, also. But the key is to think about it and talk about it beforehand so that you can address it in your applications and interviews.

All of that said, if your son doesn't get a national award, tell him not to quit. He clearly has the smarts and athletic ability to do just fine. Go to campus, join the unit, and tell him to be the example for his classmates. They'll be lucky to have him.

 

[Rotchopeful2]

Hello,
We have a number of questions around the AROTC scholarship process related to the 3 year AD scholarship. My DS received a 3 year AD scholarship offer yesterday, yea! Our questions mainly relate to the BMI Body Fat (BF) % measurements.

He is a committed D1 Athlete for the college he will be attending. Size is an advantage. He isn't very tall, and so he needs to be bulky for an upcoming Spring HS season. He also gained some extra pounds while not being able to compete or go to the club during COVID. As such he won't make the height/weight (and perhaps not the BF %) requirements right away. He will be able to make the BF% measurements at some point, but it will likely be mid to late summer as his season won't be over until mid June.

We know there are different Body Fat (BF) % for different times- we have seen for males 24% when you join, and 20% at entry, but not sure what that means related to ROTC.

• Does a 3 Year AD awardee take the DoDMERB now or before their sophomore college year when the scholarship starts?
• What is the male BF % requirement for DoDMERB? I know it isn't a DQ, but what % flags it to admissions?
• What is the male BF% required while participating in ROTC if NOT on scholarship yet?
• When does a 3 year AD awardee take the APFT?
• What is the male BF% required when taking the APFT if in ROTC but NOT on scholarship yet?
• What is the male BF% required when contracting and starting the scholarship?

Thanks in advance for any guidance you can provide on this. There are so many helpful posts on the site and this thread!

 

[EEBTTF]

Short comment on leadership.

When someone says "leadership" to a high school kid, and, frankly, to many of their parents, people often think of top-of-the-mind examples like team captain, president of this or that extracurricular group, etc. Those are all great examples, but they are NOT the only examples, and I suspect that kids leave chips on the table because they can't point to something obvious like one of those examples. An example that I like to use, and I'm relatively certain it has worked, is being the oldest (or not even the oldest, but an older) sibling, particularly in a family with a more than usual number of kids. That can entail significant leadership experience over a spectrum of activities, but you have to volunteer it and explain it for it to count.

I'm certain there are other examples, also. But the key is to think about it and talk about it beforehand so that you can address it in your applications and interviews.

All of that said, if your son doesn't get a national award, tell him not to quit. He clearly has the smarts and athletic ability to do just fine. Go to campus, join the unit, and tell him to be the example for his classmates. They'll be lucky to have him.

@franknd - sage advice as usual from you. I would like to add one comment on Leadership and the process in general. Hopefully people that are applying next year will read this.

If you are thinking about applying to one of the SAs or ROTC Scholarships, you are most likely a high achiever. You have probably have many significant accomplishments in high school. You have held multiple leadership positions, some on the athletic field, some in church and others in school. You have all done community service.

Looking back on my DS's journey, the single most important thing he did was start developing a detailed resume his sophomore year. He kept up with everything that he did. This was what I call the story development phase - tell the story! So when the time came to apply, it was simply a matter of compiling the data, polishing it and reporting it. It was shocking how many community service projects he had worked on, the numerous athletic awards and accomplishments, the leadership positions he had in church, school and on the field . I never would have been able to remember them all if he had not been keeping up with it. This resume provided the template for all of his essays and interview prep. It wasn't rehearsed - it was him.

Too many candidates rush through the process just to get to the next step - check the box mentality. They rush to submit their application because they think the early bird gets the worm. They rush through the DoDMERB checklist just to get to the next step and then end up getting a DQ because they self diagnosed a condition that was never diagnosed.

Reading and replying to all of these threads for the recent AROTC board has highlighted that many GOOD candidates did research the process and put their best packet in. Many did not - and are now wondering why they were not selected.

Marathon not a sprint!

 

[hrtly]

Hello,
We have a number of questions around the AROTC scholarship process related to the 3 year AD scholarship. My DS received a 3 year AD scholarship offer yesterday, yea! Our questions mainly relate to the BMI Body Fat (BF) % measurements.

He is a committed D1 Athlete for the college he will be attending. Size is an advantage. He isn't very tall, and so he needs to be bulky for an upcoming Spring HS season. He also gained some extra pounds while not being able to compete or go to the club during COVID. As such he won't make the height/weight (and perhaps not the BF %) requirements right away. He will be able to make the BF% measurements at some point, but it will likely be mid to late summer as his season won't be over until mid June.

We know there are different Body Fat (BF) % for different times- we have seen for males 24% when you join, and 20% at entry, but not sure what that means related to ROTC.

• Does a 3 Year AD awardee take the DoDMERB now or before their sophomore college year when the scholarship starts?
• What is the male BF % requirement for DoDMERB? I know it isn't a DQ, but what % flags it to admissions?
• What is the male BF% required while participating in ROTC if NOT on scholarship yet?
• When does a 3 year AD awardee take the APFT?
• What is the male BF% required when taking the APFT if in ROTC but NOT on scholarship yet?
• What is the male BF% required when contracting and starting the scholarship?

Thanks in advance for any guidance you can provide on this. There are so many helpful posts on the site and this thread!

Hey - also remember theres a DoDMERB section of the forums if no one can answer the bottom half here!

 

[EEBTTF]

Hello,
We have a number of questions around the AROTC scholarship process related to the 3 year AD scholarship. My DS received a 3 year AD scholarship offer yesterday, yea! Our questions mainly relate to the BMI Body Fat (BF) % measurements.

He is a committed D1 Athlete for the college he will be attending. Size is an advantage. He isn't very tall, and so he needs to be bulky for an upcoming Spring HS season. He also gained some extra pounds while not being able to compete or go to the club during COVID. As such he won't make the height/weight (and perhaps not the BF %) requirements right away. He will be able to make the BF% measurements at some point, but it will likely be mid to late summer as his season won't be over until mid June.

We know there are different Body Fat (BF) % for different times- we have seen for males 24% when you join, and 20% at entry, but not sure what that means related to ROTC.

• Does a 3 Year AD awardee take the DoDMERB now or before their sophomore college year when the scholarship starts?
• What is the male BF % requirement for DoDMERB? I know it isn't a DQ, but what % flags it to admissions?
• What is the male BF% required while participating in ROTC if NOT on scholarship yet?
• When does a 3 year AD awardee take the APFT?
• What is the male BF% required when taking the APFT if in ROTC but NOT on scholarship yet?
• What is the male BF% required when contracting and starting the scholarship?

Thanks in advance for any guidance you can provide on this. There are so many helpful posts on the site and this thread!

Ok - I will bite on this one. First of all - the Army does not care that your son is a D1 athlete and needs to be bulky for an upcoming season in terms of meeting the BMI ( I was also a D1 athlete so I am not slamming athletes). If he is an athlete and in good shape and has a high BF% - he will have to pass the current requirements . No big deal.

• Does a 3 Year AD awardee take the DoDMERB now or before their sophomore college year when the scholarship starts?
  • Simple answer is that you have to be DODMERB qualified before you contract. Your DS will be contacted soon to start the process
• What is the male BF % requirement for DoDMERB? I know it isn't a DQ, but what % flags it to admissions?
  • I think the following is correct - Male soldiers between ages 17 and 20 must have a BMI of 25.7 or less; men 21 to 27 years old must have a BMI of 26.4 or less; men ages 28 to 39 must have a BMI of 27.1 or less; and male soldiers ages 40 and older must have a BMI of 27.5 or less.
• What is the male BF% required while participating in ROTC if NOT on scholarship yet?
  • See above - whether he is on scholarship or not. He has to meet the requirements to contract
• When does a 3 year AD awardee take the APFT?
  • Before he contracts. He will have to participate in ROTC his freshman year. He has to pass the APFT to contract
• What is the male BF% required when taking the APFT if in ROTC but NOT on scholarship yet?
  • Does your son want to be a professional wrestler or a soldier? Not trying to be an ass here but 90% of your questions are related to BF%. The Army wants fit soldiers - if your DS can pass a tape test - all is good. Is he on an athletic scholarship or ROTC?
• What is the male BF% required when contracting and starting the scholarship?

I suggest you do a little research on the process - That is way too many BF% questions for me in a single thread.

 

[Montana State Army ROTC]

Hello,
We have a number of questions around the AROTC scholarship process related to the 3 year AD scholarship. My DS received a 3 year AD scholarship offer yesterday, yea! Our questions mainly relate to the BMI Body Fat (BF) % measurements.

He is a committed D1 Athlete for the college he will be attending. Size is an advantage. He isn't very tall, and so he needs to be bulky for an upcoming Spring HS season. He also gained some extra pounds while not being able to compete or go to the club during COVID. As such he won't make the height/weight (and perhaps not the BF %) requirements right away. He will be able to make the BF% measurements at some point, but it will likely be mid to late summer as his season won't be over until mid June.

We know there are different Body Fat (BF) % for different times- we have seen for males 24% when you join, and 20% at entry, but not sure what that means related to ROTC.

• Does a 3 Year AD awardee take the DoDMERB now or before their sophomore college year when the scholarship starts?
• What is the male BF % requirement for DoDMERB? I know it isn't a DQ, but what % flags it to admissions?
• What is the male BF% required while participating in ROTC if NOT on scholarship yet?
• When does a 3 year AD awardee take the APFT?
• What is the male BF% required when taking the APFT if in ROTC but NOT on scholarship yet?
• What is the male BF% required when contracting and starting the scholarship?

Thanks in advance for any guidance you can provide on this. There are so many helpful posts on the site and this thread!

Not 100% this is accurate but a quick google search.

Army Height and Weight Standards for 2024 | Updated chart for 2024!

Check the Army Height and Weight Standards to ensure you meet the requirements if you're considering to join. Use the table to assess your compliance.

www.google.com

Cadets must pass whatever PT test CC is going to use in the fall (currently 1-1-1) and height/weight standards.

fat bodies (sorry) is the one acceptable stereotype soldiers/officers/leaders still have. Don’t be a fat body.

 

[Rotchopeful2]

Ok - I will bite on this one. First of all - the Army does not care that your son is a D1 athlete and needs to be bulky for an upcoming season in terms of meeting the BMI ( I was also a DI athlete so I am not slamming athletes). If he is an athlete and in good shape and has a high BF% - he will have to pass the current requirements . No big deal.

• Does a 3 Year AD awardee take the DoDMERB now or before their sophomore college year when the scholarship starts?
  • Simple answer is that you have to be DODMERB qualified before you contract. Your DS will be contacted soon to start the process
• What is the male BF % requirement for DoDMERB? I know it isn't a DQ, but what % flags it to admissions?
  • I think the following is correct - Male soldiers between ages 17 and 20 must have a BMI of 25.7 or less; men 21 to 27 years old must have a BMI of 26.4 or less; men ages 28 to 39 must have a BMI of 27.1 or less; and male soldiers ages 40 and older must have a BMI of 27.5 or less.
• What is the male BF% required while participating in ROTC if NOT on scholarship yet?
  • See above - whether he is on scholarship or not. He has to meet the requirements to contract
• When does a 3 year AD awardee take the APFT?
  • Before he contracts. He will have to participate in ROTC his freshman year. He has to pass the APFT to contract
• What is the male BF% required when taking the APFT if in ROTC but NOT on scholarship yet?
  • Does your son want to be a professional wrestler or a soldier? Not trying to be an *** here but 90% of your questions are related to BF%. The Army wants fit soldiers - if your DS can pass a tape test - all is good.
• What is the male BF% required when contracting and starting the scholarship?

I suggest you do a little research on the process - That is way too many BF% questions for me in a single thread.

Thanks for the info. I only mentioned his situation for background as to why we had the questions and why we were concerned about timelines. We have the BMI info, we are looking for the tape numbers.

We have done a lot of research however what we can find just mentions BF of 24% when you join, and 20% at entry- we are assuming that is not for ROTC. Does anyone know what the BF% or tape numbers are when you contract for ROTC?

Thanks too for answering about timing on contracting, some things on the notification portal made it sound like they didn't contract until a sophomore for the 3 year. Thanks so much for your help.

 

[EEBTTF]

Not 100% this is accurate but a quick google search.

Army Height and Weight Standards for 2024 | Updated chart for 2024!

Check the Army Height and Weight Standards to ensure you meet the requirements if you're considering to join. Use the table to assess your compliance.

www.google.com

Cadets must pass whatever PT test CC is going to use in the fall (currently 1-1-1) and height/weight standards.

fat bodies (sorry) is the one acceptable stereotype soldiers/officers/leaders still have. Don’t be a fat body

Thanks for the info. I only mentioned his situation for background as to why we had the questions and why we were concerned about timelines. We have the BMI info, we are looking for the tape numbers.

We have done a lot of research however what we can find just mentions BF of 24% when you join, and 20% at entry- we are assuming that is not for ROTC. Does anyone know what the BF% or tape numbers are when you contract for ROTC?

Thanks too for answering about timing on contracting, some things on the notification portal made it sound like they didn't contract until a sophomore for the 3 year. Thanks so much for your help.

My suggestion is that your DS works through the cadre at the school he will be attending. Way too many variables for this forum - congrats to your DS on his scholarship!

 

[Rotchopeful2]

Not 100% this is accurate but a quick google search.

Army Height and Weight Standards for 2024 | Updated chart for 2024!

Check the Army Height and Weight Standards to ensure you meet the requirements if you're considering to join. Use the table to assess your compliance.

www.google.com

Cadets must pass whatever PT test CC is going to use in the fall (currently 1-1-1) and height/weight standards.

fat bodies (sorry) is the one acceptable stereotype soldiers/officers/leaders still have. Don’t be a fat body.

Understood, thanks. We mainly wanted to know the ROTC tape numbers as we know he will need the alternative measurement and we are having trouble locating them.

Our other question was when 3 year candidates contract and need to be in compliance. It sounds like they need to be in compliance when they report as freshman, so just looking for the tape numbers. Thanks for replying so promptly. It is also good to know the 1-1-1 is the current plan for the PT test.

 

[Montana State Army ROTC]

Understood, thanks. We mainly wanted to know the ROTC tape numbers as we know he will need the alternative measurement and we are having trouble locating them.

Our other question was when 3 year candidates contract and need to be in compliance. It sounds like they need to be in compliance when they report as freshman, so just looking for the tape numbers. Thanks for replying so promptly. It is also good to know the 1-1-1 is the current plan for the PT test.

In compliance the semester their scholarship starts. For a 3AD its fall of sophomore year. But the PMS may pull the scholarship based on poor performance freshman year. Wide latitude given to PMS’s.

 

[Rotchopeful2]

My suggestion is that your DS works through the cadre at the school he will be attending. Way too many variables for this forum - congrats to your DS on his scholarship!

Thanks. We did find this, which we will assume are the %s.

I am posting it because from reading through the posts in this thread and other threads a lot of people people need the tape measure method and there is not a lot of info provided related to the metrics. This could be helpful for others as well.



Chart to look up tape measurements and height and find BF%

Appendix B Standard Methods for Determining Body Fat Using Body Circumferences, Height, and Weight

Appendix B Standard Methods for Determining Body Fat Using Body Circumferences, Height, and Weight. Army Regulation 600–9 Army Weight Control Program

550cord.com

Thanks for the quick replies, it was appreciated.

 

[EEBTTF]

In compliance the semester their scholarship starts. For a 3AD its fall of sophomore year. But the PMS may pull the scholarship based on poor performance freshman year. Wide latitude given to PMS’s.

To simplify the answer - show up as a freshman in shape and meeting all of the requirements. There are a ton of cadets waiting in the wings to pick up a 3.5 or 3 year scholarships that are dropped because you cant pass the APFT or meet other physical requirements. It is that simple - you can analyze all of the charts and data you want - you are either compliant or you aren't. This is not a subjective test. You know exactly where your DS is now in terms of the requirements. You have been given the requirements that he will have to meet in order to contract. Not much more to the equation.

 

[MomKukie]

Short comment on leadership.

When someone says "leadership" to a high school kid, and, frankly, to many of their parents, people often think of top-of-the-mind examples like team captain, president of this or that extracurricular group, etc. Those are all great examples, but they are NOT the only examples, and I suspect that kids leave chips on the table because they can't point to something obvious like one of those examples. An example that I like to use, and I'm relatively certain it has worked, is being the oldest (or not even the oldest, but an older) sibling, particularly in a family with a more than usual number of kids. That can entail significant leadership experience over a spectrum of activities, but you have to volunteer it and explain it for it to count.

I'm certain there are other examples, also. But the key is to think about it and talk about it beforehand so that you can address it in your applications and interviews.

All of that said, if your son doesn't get a national award, tell him not to quit. He clearly has the smarts and athletic ability to do just fine. Go to campus, join the unit, and tell him to be the example for his classmates. They'll be lucky to have him.

Yes, exactly. Thank you for your kind words. We just had that conversation and he's way more relaxed about everything than I probably am. I found out that he did not miss the letter of recommendation - my mistake. And he said that the person who was interviewing him (actually someone subbing for the PMS) asked him, "What examples of leadership do you have besides the ones you just gave." And he could actually think of one more, so maybe his interview wasn't as bad as I thought in the area of leadership. Anyway, we also talked about his older brother (and I'm hoping this is an encouragement to everyone who doesn't get a scholarship at all) who applied for the Honors Program at his college and didn't get in even after taking the SAT three times to improve his score. Because he didn't get it going in, he was able to join another group which you couldn't be in AND be in the Honors Program, and then after he got a 4.0 his first semester, he was invited into the Honors Program with the nice scholarship; so he got the best of both worlds. So I said to my ROTC son, don't be discouraged even if you don't get any national AROTC scholarship and still join ROTC at your college and see where it takes you.

 

[Mousie29]

150 for the PFA - smallest number of points of any component on the application.

Except could the fitness score affect the PMS interviewer's score...that is the question...that I picked up on this board. Same with ACT score...does it affect the PMS interview score. It's like getting double credit for those items.

 

[KingZunzie]

Not 100% this is accurate but a quick google search.

Army Height and Weight Standards for 2024 | Updated chart for 2024!

Check the Army Height and Weight Standards to ensure you meet the requirements if you're considering to join. Use the table to assess your compliance.

www.google.com

Cadets must pass whatever PT test CC is going to use in the fall (currently 1-1-1) and height/weight standards.

fat bodies (sorry) is the one acceptable stereotype soldiers/officers/leaders still have. Don’t be a fat body.

Does this mean that you need to meet the height/standards when contracting, but not for DoDMERB? Like the other poster, my lineman son is carrying extra weight because football was moved from the fall to a Feb-April season. He will be close to the Height/Weight standard next Fall when he has to pass ACFT, or whatever the test is next Fall, but is probably 30 lbs over if he goes for his DODMERB physical anytime soon, which I understand he should do (he was just awarded a 4 Yr on the 2nd Board).

 

[Montana State Army ROTC]

Does this mean that you need to meet the height/standards when contracting, but not for DoDMERB? Like the other poster, my lineman son is carrying extra weight because football was moved from the fall to a Feb-April season. He will be close to the Height/Weight standard next Fall when he has to pass ACFT, or whatever the test is next Fall, but is probably 30 lbs over if he goes for his DODMERB physical anytime soon, which I understand he should do (he was just awarded a 4 Yr on the 2nd Board).

Yes. Must meet the standard to contract. Check the DODMERB thread for that question.

 

[justdoit19]

You are absolutely right. If I remember his PFA was 50 pushups, 55 crunches and 6.59 minute mile. He has a lot of athletic involvement and one varsity letter. He did not have any reference letters, because we didn't even know about uploading them, but tons of community service. The PMS was right that he is low on leadership experience, but he does have some this year. If we upload the reference letters now, will anyone look at them?

Here’s the thing...there are tons and tons of amazing candidates allllll over the forums. They are usually even more amazing when their parents are talking about them (right? We are their biggest cheerleaders!). BUT....there are tons of them for a few spots. Especially National Scholarship spots, which ROTC scholarship are from the git-go.

As already explained by many seasoned, in the know kind of posts here, it takes a well rounded person to be chosen. Especially early on. There were kids with more that your son. And TBH, it’s your sons responsibility to understand what’s needed (ie:reference letters). As well as the process. Every year, there are amazing kids who seemingly check ‘all the boxes’, who aren’t awarded (both SA’s and ROTC’s). And there are also those that are awarded, too, that people would wonder ‘why Johnny/julie and not tommy (both of mine were awarded first round -different ROTC program, similar process- especially my second, had a lower score I thought would be problematic). Point is, it’s a nation competition, and general advice is to ALWAYS work a plan B.

Listen to the people here that know what they are talking about as far as moving forward. But every cycle, there are well deserving kids that are not awarded scholarships. There are options for them.

 

[KingZunzie]

Yes. Must meet the standard to contract. Check the DODMERB thread for that question.

Thanks. Found my answer there.