Member, since this is, for all practical purposes, a Navy thread, I am going to have to jump in here and disagree with you. Any admissions process must pass legal scrutiny. Personal judgement, past experience, etc just won't cut it. Basically, to be a competitive candidate, one must have around 60,000 WPM points. On average, 96% of these are obtained objectively right off the application with a given number of points being awarded for each accomplishment. These points are determined by historical data and are in direct correlation to odds of success. Each candidate is given the exact same number of points for the same level of achievement for each and every entry. Next, the record goes before the Admissions Board. This is where your "art" comes in. The Board looks at the entire record subjectively and decides whether the WPM total truly reflects the posture of that particular candidate. They basically look at increased or decreased probability of success based on their personal judgement and past experience/'trends. They average adding about 2500 points. 4%. Not an earth shattering amount.
'Best and brightest' article from hometownannapolis.com
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I served on the MOC selection committee of the MOC that gave me my nomination for 2 years and with my current MOC for 5 years.
My personal experience was that we picked the best candidates and didn't consider "raical goals." We did looked favorably on kids from disadvantaged background (i.e. from bad schools vs good private schools), but race was not a factor at all.
Whoa, don't put words in my mouth. We are discussing two distinct entry methods here, direct entry and via NAPS. Direct entry, as required by Federal Law, is almost solely to the most qualified candidate. There are no Federal, DOD, or DON guidelines, as far as I know, for NAPS acquisitions. Nevertheless, I would think that it would have to pass some type of legal scrutiny to ensure that it is not discriminatory. However, it is a great question which I have never heard asked or discussed. Non-minority numbers have held relatively consistent over the years. However, with the decrease in fleet acquisitions has been a corresponding increase in minority students. I would like to think that they rank all records of those who do not scholastically qualify due to low SATs, low grades, or poor coursework, and simply offer NAPS top to bottom from this list until they run out of openings. But really, I have no idea.
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These candidates are not counted against the MOC (see below)
Combination of MOC and Superintendent's Nom (I believe he gets 50 appointments). NAPS folks are encouraged to apply to their MOC nominations. Many cases showing their commitment to USNA by attending NAPS and likely improved SAT/ACT scores, increase their chances of MOC nomination.
They better hope they get one of the Superintendent's nomination or they pack their bags and go home.
MOC's decision. He is under no obligation to give his opening to the NAPS student. SA do provide their evaluation of applicants to MOC.
Not sure what you are asking, but don't confuse nominations with appointment. If MOC nominates a NAPS student, and USNA fill the vacancy with MOC's nominated NAPS student, the MOC is charged. if MOC nominates a NAPS studnetd and USNA fill the vancay with another MOC nomination, the NAPS student gets appointment againt the Supe's vacancy, the NAPS student is charged against the Supe.
Very small, the reason academically unqualified applicants attend NAPS is to improve their academic foundation - taking college level English/Math/Science Classes and taking SAT/ACT several times - so they can be academically qualified.
If an applicant is not charged against the MOC, the SA doesn't need MOC's approval.
NAPS students may get their MOC principal noms, they may ener via the national pool, and, in the event neither of these is available, they are eligible for a SecNav nomination. Never heard of the Supt wasting one of his on a NAPSter when the SecNav has openings.
When I said admissions process particiapants, I was focusing more on MOC and field force volunteers and not actuall full timers at admissions offices.
If what you are telling me is true, the USNA Admissions process, in my opinion, could be more messed up.
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Question 1: Class Rank, #1 out of 100 vs #1 out of 500 or from a school that only sends 50% of its graduates to college from a school that send 90% of its graduates to college. Same points?
Question 2: GPA 4.0 taking easy classes vs GPA 3.7 taking hard classes. Same points?
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Nope. Additional points are added depending on the competitiveness of the school. Points are based on percentages. A 10/500 (2%) is better than a 10/200 (5%). Not sure where the breakdown is up in the 1s of and 2s of.
USNA does not utilize GPAs, only class standing.
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Christcorp
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The questionable part of the equation that isn't really known, is the prep-school applicants who get appointments to the academies. Generally speaking; if you keep your nose clean, and don't do anything stupid, you are pretty much guaranteed an appointment. Now; considering that the prep-school grad/academy applicant still requires a nomination, are the MOC's giving these individuals nominations because all of a sudden, they magically became "SUPER APPLICANTS" compared to last year; OR: Are the MOC's giving them a slot on the slate because they figured if the academy gave them prep school, that the academy really thinks they are exceptional; OR: Are the MOC's not giving most of these prep-school academy applicants a nomination, and the academy is using their allotment of nominations authorized to the academies for these nominations???
When almost 60% of blacks get into the naval academy by first going to the prep-school, the question becomes: Did those few months of prep-school all of a sudden put them into the class average of 3.86gpa; 30ACT; etc... and made the competitive.... OR; does the academy use their ability and available slots to get them into the academy WITHOUT having to really compete with anyone from their home district/state.
The same can be said with any of the other prep-school attendees. Normally; the prep-schools were designed to find that academy applicant that except for a particular academic deficiency, was otherwise an exceptional applicant. The prep-school would then be used to help the individual correct this academic deficiency, and then become a competitive applicant. However; over the years, the prep-schools have been used as a back door means of getting minorities and athletes into the academies who normally wouldn't be able to get into the academy.
What I'd rather see is an Above-Board score. Individuals are scored for contributing to the academy with their leadership experiences; their academic accomplishments; their team skills; etc... There's nothing wrong with awarding points for other attributes that the applicant can bring to the academy. If they are a start athlete, they should receive points towards their application for that. Just like an applicant receives points for being the class president. Same with minorities. If they can bring diversity, they should have no problem receiving additional points for that. Whatever the applicant can bring to the table and offer to the academy as a contribution, they should receive points for. I am not against bring in athletes, minorities, females, etc... I just think it should be part of the scoring. leave the prep-schools for those with an academic deficiency.
If the class average is 3.86gpa, 30 ACT, 2000 SAT, etc... I have no problem admitting the superstar athlete who had a 3.60 gpa, 27 ACT, etc... if the additional points for his/her contribution of athletics gave them enough points. Same with a minority. The academies want the WHOLE PERSON. Not just the academic success. I am all for this. Where I have a problem is when that minority or athlete has a 2.6gpa, 23 ACT, 1500 SAT, etc... and they are put into the pre-school as a back door means into the academy, because next year, they don't have to compete "The Same" as others. In other words; I highly doubt that many of the prep-school grads/academy applicants were border line on their initial academy application. Some were, and are at the prep-school for what it was intended for. But many were FAR AWAY from being truly competitive. And after less than a year at the prep-school, they are not much more competitive than they were last year. It's just that they have a back door in now, that doesn't require them to have to compete at the same level playing field they did the previous year. And yes, many of these are minorities and/or athletes.
When almost 60% of blacks get into the naval academy by first going to the prep-school, the question becomes: Did those few months of prep-school all of a sudden put them into the class average of 3.86gpa; 30ACT; etc... and made the competitive.... OR; does the academy use their ability and available slots to get them into the academy WITHOUT having to really compete with anyone from their home district/state.
The same can be said with any of the other prep-school attendees. Normally; the prep-schools were designed to find that academy applicant that except for a particular academic deficiency, was otherwise an exceptional applicant. The prep-school would then be used to help the individual correct this academic deficiency, and then become a competitive applicant. However; over the years, the prep-schools have been used as a back door means of getting minorities and athletes into the academies who normally wouldn't be able to get into the academy.
What I'd rather see is an Above-Board score. Individuals are scored for contributing to the academy with their leadership experiences; their academic accomplishments; their team skills; etc... There's nothing wrong with awarding points for other attributes that the applicant can bring to the academy. If they are a start athlete, they should receive points towards their application for that. Just like an applicant receives points for being the class president. Same with minorities. If they can bring diversity, they should have no problem receiving additional points for that. Whatever the applicant can bring to the table and offer to the academy as a contribution, they should receive points for. I am not against bring in athletes, minorities, females, etc... I just think it should be part of the scoring. leave the prep-schools for those with an academic deficiency.
If the class average is 3.86gpa, 30 ACT, 2000 SAT, etc... I have no problem admitting the superstar athlete who had a 3.60 gpa, 27 ACT, etc... if the additional points for his/her contribution of athletics gave them enough points. Same with a minority. The academies want the WHOLE PERSON. Not just the academic success. I am all for this. Where I have a problem is when that minority or athlete has a 2.6gpa, 23 ACT, 1500 SAT, etc... and they are put into the pre-school as a back door means into the academy, because next year, they don't have to compete "The Same" as others. In other words; I highly doubt that many of the prep-school grads/academy applicants were border line on their initial academy application. Some were, and are at the prep-school for what it was intended for. But many were FAR AWAY from being truly competitive. And after less than a year at the prep-school, they are not much more competitive than they were last year. It's just that they have a back door in now, that doesn't require them to have to compete at the same level playing field they did the previous year. And yes, many of these are minorities and/or athletes.
Nearly all get in. I would say that attending NAPS definitely shows commitment. Should a "C" average demonstrate the academic competence to be successful in the USNA?
Nearly all get in.
This is the first post I have seen that indicates the NAPSters are retaking the SAT/ACT tests prior to graduating from NAPS. Have you seen those scores? It may be different for NAPSters but generally don't all candidates to the USNA have to submit their SAT/ACT scores to their MOCs before Oct for consideration? I'm curious how a MOC's nom committee could consider a NAPSters new SAT/ACT scores within that time frame? Which scores are you reviewing?
CC, All NAPSters are eligible for a SecNav nom.
NAPSters WPM points are totaled just like everyone else and utilized accordingly to award nominations and appointments. If you think about it though, the typical NAPS apointee has a super record except for an academic deficiency. NAPS eliminates the academic deficiency and bingo, a top tiered candidate.
NAPSters WPM points are totaled just like everyone else and utilized accordingly to award nominations and appointments. If you think about it though, the typical NAPS apointee has a super record except for an academic deficiency. NAPS eliminates the academic deficiency and bingo, a top tiered candidate.
Luigi59
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And don't forget, that 60% (I assume you got that number from the stats) is deemed "not qualified" for direct entry to USNA when they apply, as NAPS (according to Mongo) doesn't admit qualified candidates.
However, if they are qualified for direct entry, the appointment rate is 91%.
Read it again - yes, 91%.
I guess all MOCs are different, but for official Academy requirements, since applications aren't even due until March 1, they must, by default, take the results of the January test. However, I have seen appointments made based on the strength of the March test. Since NAPS is treated the same as college, all they are looking for is a 600/600. Anything below requires a cursory waiver. Below 600/600, they will be given a SAT prep class and retake, above 600/600, no further action required.
Particularly if the top tiered student can run with a football and/or meet the racial goals of the Navy. Fortunately the Navy does the evaluations (assigns grades) of the NAPSters and can decide for itself how good a job it is doing preparing (eliminating the academic deficiency) these students for the USNA.
To assign WPMs based or race would be discriminatory and, thusly, illegial. And yes, as we have hashed out, athletes of all races bring assets to the table worthy of WPMs.
I was referring to the SAT/ACT scores that need to be submitted to the MOCs when applying for a nom. I thought the NAPSters had to apply to their MOCs for noms just like the rest of the candidates to the USNA? Are you suggesting that the MOC's (whose noms are due by Jan 31st) are going to consider later SAT/ACT scores for the NAPSters than the rest of the candidates (Sept/Oct)? Are you sure that the NAPSters actually re-take the SAT/ACT test again before being considered for the USNA or a nom? Seems odd the article only mentioned the "C" requirement to get into the USNA from NAPS and nothing about the new and improved SAT/ACT scores.
I have a different take the NAPS academic preparation.
I see it as the NAPS to build the academic foundation for likely future midshipmen to not flunk out, not to make them academic superstars.
Some applicants come from disadvantaged background, regardless of race, such as most Baltimore City public schools not offering AP classes or highest math class they offer is Geometry (I don't know for sure), so taking basic college prep courses allows future midshipmen to not overwhelmed when the academic year starts. Academic Qualification is not necessarily academic achievement.
I see it as the NAPS to build the academic foundation for likely future midshipmen to not flunk out, not to make them academic superstars.
Some applicants come from disadvantaged background, regardless of race, such as most Baltimore City public schools not offering AP classes or highest math class they offer is Geometry (I don't know for sure), so taking basic college prep courses allows future midshipmen to not overwhelmed when the academic year starts. Academic Qualification is not necessarily academic achievement.
We certainly wouldn't want the USNA to do anything illegal.
However DIV I athletes evidently bring more assets to the table worthy of WPMs than just the ordinary HS varsity athlete which most candidates are...
Luigi59
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If only that were true.
But according to the article:
During a recent two-year period, NAPS grads were arriving at the Naval Academy so poorly prepared for college-level work, the Naval Academy superintendent relieved the officer in charge of the prep school.
If the MOC submits a competitive list, all candidates on that list will be given the opportunity to update their scores until March 1. And these revised scores will reflect on their competitiveness. For a principal nomination, SATs have nothing to do with it. The MOC can nominate whoever he sees fit, so long as they are scholastically qualified, no matter their SAT scores. This is why I mentioned it.
Of course I am sure about the requirement to retake the exams. If I weren't, I would not have posted it. Or would have qualified my statement. I am sure there are exceptions. And why am I not surprised that the article didn't mention it. The purpose of the article was not facts, but sensationalism.
This might explain it better
A class of 2015 applicant, don't get in, but gets in to NAPS
So he or she becomes a class of 2016 applicant while at NAPS. So his new admissions time line is Sep 11 to Feb 2012. So he or she will take SATs several times (I was told at USMA prep, you take SATs several times) between Sep 2011 to Feb 2012. So the best SAT scores between Sep 2010 to Feb 2012 (in case of MOC nomination Sep 2010 to Oct 2012) will be used to evaluate this candidate's academic qualfication.
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