Fall Semester 2012 xROTC updates

Discussion in 'ROTC' started by kinnem, Aug 18, 2012.

  1. kinnem

    kinnem Moderator

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    My sophmores DS informed me the freshman orientation at his unit started with 70 MIDN and were down to 35 by the end of the week. Heavy toll this year. I have to believe it was partly intentional as I don't believe they can really handle that many. So... To all you folks applying, thinking I'll never drop out... Beware.
     
  2. gettingmoregrayhair

    gettingmoregrayhair Member

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    NROTC orientation

    We just dropped off DD yesterday at U of Illinois NROTC orientation week. A group of 34, of those 13 were scholarship. We won't have phone contact for 3 days, so after seeing the previous post, I will be worrying until then!
     
  3. Jcleppe

    Jcleppe Member

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    Younger son is starting his MS2 year Monday, he has been at school for a week working on Rush with his house and ROTC Orientation. Son's ROTC Battalion has only a one day orientation for new cadets, they start work on the first day of school. As of now they have 16 new cadets, it's a smaller school.

    kinnem, good luck to your son with the scholarship, we'll all keep our collective fingers crossed for him.
     
  4. kinnem

    kinnem Moderator

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    Thanks jcleppe!
     
  5. Pima

    Pima Parent

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    +1

    Especially if you are attending a school that the only way you can afford to be there is on an XROTC scholarship. The unit will not care whether you are scholarship or not, they will cut you just as fast as a non-scholarship cadet/mid. It makes no financial sense to keep you if you are not making the grade because this is their money they are spending, they are investing in you.

    Cadets have the false sense of perception that because they are on scholarship it has some benefits within the unit because you proved yourself by getting a scholarship. It doesn't, at least for AFROTC it doesn't. All that scholarship proves is on paper you were worth the risk. This is real life now.
     
  6. kinnem

    kinnem Moderator

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    I should perhaps add to the original post that those who left during freshman orientation did so of their own accord. To my knowledge no one was cut, per se. However I agree with Pima that if you aren't making the grade they'll cut you in a heartbeat.

    On an unrelated note we discovered, while moving DS in this weekend, that one of his apartmentmates will be dropping NROTC. He was originally shooting for Marines but due to injuries to knees, switched to Navy Option. He has since decided he's not interested in Navy and now what's to go back to pursuing Marines. He is NOT on scholarship and for some reason has decided he's not competitive physically although he certainly is academically. He also wants to pursue a double major so although it didn't come up, I'm sure time is a factor as well. I feel sad for this fine young man. :frown: Since he hasn't informed anyone I reminded him its not too late to stick with it. If he does drop I'll try to steer him to PLC.

    Finally, my DS must be on the xROTC hall in his apartment complex. Besides his other NROTC roommate, there are 4 NROTC women across the hall and 2 AFROTC cadets next door. Glad to know he's surrounded by folks to help keep him motivated, and vice-versa.
     
  7. FlyingWildcatDad

    FlyingWildcatDad Member

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    MY DS has his AFROTC freshman orientation tomorrow at DET 290. I think it is an all day affair, starting off with a height and weight check first thing as referenced in a letter he received. The letter also stated that they had a record number of new cadets starting the program at a little more than 80. I think 13 are HSSP recipients from what I've heard. First PT will be early Wednesday morning. DS just received an email today stating that all HSSP recipients need to show up in PT gear on Thursday morning from 0600-0730 for another height and weight check and to go over and sign contract papers. I assume that since they are having to wear PT gear that they must be taking their PFT prior to contracting. We will see I guess?
     
  8. Pima

    Pima Parent

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    Yes, they will be taking the PFT on Thursday.

    I hope he remembered to take his original Birth Cert. with him because they will ask for that. I am not sure if they accept passports also.

    I found it funny for our DS because he was not allow to use his military i.d.(dep) as a form of identification. The i.d. is a federal i.d., and to get that i.d. you must provide the original birth certificate, their DEERS and a military members i.d. It has never made sense to me.

    Good luck to your DS. 13 HSSPs is a lot of scholarships.
     
  9. jiller59

    jiller59 Member

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    We are taking DS to school for early move-in on Saturday, then he leaves Sunday for 5 days/4 nights of Orientation at Fort Custer; he is NROTC. He has been working hard at PT, especially upper body work-outs and push ups. He has been a runner for 5 years and is helping his high school cross country coach with the team practices. He was team captain for 3 years and the guys really liked and respected him, so they were happy he was back for a couple of weeks. He was excited to find out that he will even be able to attend one meet before he leaves for school.

    I really feel he is cut out for this, but kinnem's post has me a bit more concerned.:frown:
     
  10. Non Ducor Duco

    Non Ducor Duco I am not led, I lead

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    At my orientation there were over 20 HSSP recipients and about 80 new cadets give or take. Something interesting I found out is that passing the PFA is not what activates my scholarship. They said the money will be there in about 3 weeks while our first PFA isn't until October. They said we'll PT for a while, take a practice test, and then take the real one 2 weeks after that. Maybe my det has a unique system or something???
     
  11. dunninla

    dunninla Member

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    This is exactly why I posted asking that people identify which ROTC they are writing about, as each has different rules and expectations. If this were for Army ROTC, then either:

    1) this particular Battalion is actually Contracting cadets ASSUMING a passage of the requisite APFT + weight standards, or more likely,
    2) this particular policy at your school where the APFT is not given in the first or second day of classes, but instead about 45 days into classes, effectively removes 45 days of Subsistence Allowance (stipend) from all the cadets who do Contract. That's at minimum $450 that each cadet doesn't get because of the delay in APFT and Contracting. This delay does not affect the Tuition+Fees component of the Scholarship because that is retroactive anyway, and the schools will typically wait the 45 days the Army makes them wait.

    If this policy is for AFROTC or Navy ROTC, then I'm not sure how this affects the Subsistence Allowance... perhaps those Branches have different rules.
     
    Last edited: Aug 20, 2012
  12. Pima

    Pima Parent

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    Maybe Non Ducor Duco.

    However, one thing that is the same across every ROTC unit, you only have 1 chance at a 1st impression, and usually the PFT where you can shine immediately.

    They expect to teach you how to salute, how to march. They also expect that you get; here are the min. stds. for the PFT, now meet or exceed them. It is pretty straight forward.

    I am not implying you won't give 110%, I am saying that sometimes it is better not to have the knowledge of that safety net. I worry that some posters will not comprehend that as I said earlier this is your 1st opportunity to make a positive name for yourself within the unit, and the importance behind it.

    For example: They will assign you a job within the det. and it will occur within weeks of arriving. Some dets there are not enough jobs for every C100.

    You don't want to be behind the 8 ball as a C100, because next semester they will rotate assignments, and most likely at a large det you will get a job. BUT, meanwhile another cadet may also get their 2nd job. As a C200 when up for selection this will play into the equation. It will play into the equation for the AFSC board too.

    There is only going to be 1 CWC, 1 CVWC, a few CFCs as POCs. It all comes down to day one as a C100.

    In no means am I saying maxxing is the make or break, but I am def. saying just meeting the mins because they said this test is not official does not mean it will not impact you regarding 1st impressions.

    For AROTC cadets, there is a thread of how scholarship cadets could not contract until they passed the PFT.
    One thread I would review is:http://www.serviceacademyforums.com/showthread.php?t=21612

    For NROTC cadets, I don't recall that type of post, but posters might have added into that same thread. The thread is 6 pages long.

    Non Ducor Duco I am betting Marist's post is why your det has that position.
    It appears after pulling up this thread it is a non-issue until October. However, I still stress 1st impressions is a issue.
     
  13. Pima

    Pima Parent

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    dunninla,

    As I illustrated with Marist's post (AROTC) from last yr on this site, they too move forward until October.

    I think you are assuming that they do not do the 1st PFT until October. The way I read it was they do not have to PASS it until October. They administer it immediately and train them until October for the drop dead date.

    His scholarship would be activated and he would get paid, that is my personal issue.

    Our DS never failed an AFROTC PFT, he actually maxxed it his freshman yr; both times fall and spring. I will leave it to kevster and Nick4060 to answer if this is indeed typical for AFROTC scholarship cadets. I would suggest Non Ducor Duco pm both of these members for guidance.

    I have a problem with them non submitting the scores in the 1st few weeks of school, because as you, dunninla stated, this is dollars and cents. My dollars and cents as a tax payer. I feel that is as close to fraud, waste and abuse as anyone can get. You activate a scholarship and contract a cadet and one of the conditions is passing the PFT. What if a cadet fails in Oct? How do they recoup that money? Not even touching the tuition payment made in Oct. just the silly stipend.

    I am not disagreeing with you dunninla in the least bit, I actually agree, but from a different side (taxpayer) because I think this deserves the :bsflagsmileyface: when it comes to the AF if this is the case for activating a scholarship. Don't pay a stipend when they have yet to pass the PFT.

    Again, I don't know, DS always passed his AFROTC PFT. I never had to ask how this would impact his scholarship. I do know it would impact his AFROTC career and that may have had an effect on his SFT selection, thus loss of scholarship. Remember AFROTC is different than AROTC. Do not get selected for SFT, they will dis-enroll the cadet. You cannot, will not commission without attending SFT as an AFROTC cadet. No SFT = No POC. They don't move forward in the system. You must be a POC to commission. Scholarship is considered "masked", the board does not know if the cadet is contracted, it is all based on scores. PFT is a big chunk of that score. It will come back to bite them sooner or later.
     
    Last edited: Aug 20, 2012
  14. FlyingWildcatDad

    FlyingWildcatDad Member

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    I will be sure to posts my son's experience with AFROTC at Det 290 after Thursday. I am curious to see if it is similiar to what Non Ducor Duco stated. Like I said, the email DS got from the SSgt said for HSSP are to report at 0600 in PT gear for a height and weight check, and then go over and sign contracts. The email did not mention the PFT, but I could see no other reason why they would have to report in PT gear and for the meeting to last a hour and a half, if not for the test. We will see Thursday I guess.
     
  15. Pima

    Pima Parent

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    Flying I agree with you, there seems to be no reason at all to gather only the HSSP scholarship recipients in PT gear and weigh them unless it is to start the contracting process.

    Ht and Wt are also issues that are mandated.

    Good luck to your DS.
     
  16. becksgirl

    becksgirl Member

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    No it is not unique. HSSP are not required to pass any PFA in order to contract. In fact, they could in essence go the entire first year of school, get their tuition and book allowance as well as stipend and then drop the program no questions asked. Of course if they are HSSP I have no idea why they would do that, but it is in fact possible. So, no they do not have to pass the PFA first. Also for those who are asking as to why they are asked to show up in PT gear it is because it is easier to do the tape and measure in that they everyday clothes. It does not mean that they are in fact going to do the PFA.
     
  17. jiller59

    jiller59 Member

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    NROTC PRT

    DS letter from NROTC unit Commanding Officer states "A great resource for getting in shape is the U.S. Navy Pre-Entry Physical Training Plan. Following this plan is highly recommended in preparation for Orientation. Throughout your career, you will be reqired to pass a semi-annual Physical Readiness Test (PRT) in the Navy or Physical Fitness Test (PFT) in the Marine Corps. Furthermore, performance on the PRT/PFT is used as an indicator of aptitude for Naval Service. I strongly recommend you begin a regular routine of exercise to prepare for your specific test! All new students will be required to perform the PRT at Orientation. (emphasis is mine) Your score will be measured against the Navy standards for Midshipmen. Failure to meet Navy standards during the school year will result in you attending two additional PT sessions per week."

    In case anyone is wondering, it also spells out that the Navy PRT consists of a sit-and-reach, 1.5 mile run, 2 minute timed push-ups and 2 minute timed sit-ups.
     
  18. Jcleppe

    Jcleppe Member

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    Well, I learn something new everyday on this board.

    So if I read your post correctly, a new HSSP AFROTC Cadet does not need to pass the PFA to receive the tuition, book and stipend money. A cadet that does not pass the PFA can remain in the program the entire first year and collect all money due a HSSP Cadet.

    I know very little about the inner workings of AFROTC but had no idea that was the case, again learning something new. What a break for AFROTC Cadets, AROTC Cadets receive nothing until they pass the APFT, no tuition, no book money and no stipend, if the cadet does finally pass the APFT during the semester they will receive the tuition and book money, the stipend only starts once they pass the APFT and it is not paid retroactive. If a cadet does not pass the APFT prior to the end of the first semester then they lose the scholarship and book money as well as all the stipend and can be removed from the program.

    Interesting that the Air Force does not have similar requirements, Does the AF not put as much emphasis on the PFA or is it just that they don't require passing it as a prerequisite to getting the Scholarship Money. A nice break for cadets that are out of shape in the AFROTC.
     
  19. becksgirl

    becksgirl Member

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    Of course the AF puts a lot of emphasis on the PFA, I'm just saying if in fact that a HSSP does not have to pass the PFA in order to contract. If they are not able to pass the PFA in the first semester they will be given a conditional event (not good) but will still be allowed to stay in the program for the second semester where they will try again to pass the PFA. If they do not pass again that semester they will be given a second conditional event and will no doubt be pressured to leave the program before the school year is up or will have already freshman opted out. I don't really think that a HSSP selectee would ever do such a thing, I'm just saying it is possible. HSSP winners can leave after their freshman year no questions asked for any reason at all without any repercussions. I would never consider showing up for my freshman year not able to pass the PFA, just saying that it is possible to do so.
     
  20. kinnem

    kinnem Moderator

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    I'm sure he'll be fine. Dealing with the physical stuff is relatively easy for someone who is in good shape like your DS, and that's half the battle. The tough part is the mental stress and lack of sleep. If you're already in good shape its easier to deal with the stress and there is actually less of it. It's like a mini boot camp lead by Marine DIs. If your DS is commited he'll make it through just fine. Everyone will question if they really want to be there. I gather its designed to do that. No news is good news,..and they will talk to them about staying before they let them leave. At least that's our experience of it. It's also an experience that helps the freshman bond, which makes any later difficulties easier to bear. They'll all be there for one another..
     

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