How will a government shutdown affect ROTC?

[NorwichDad]

This is so stupid. Let's make everyone feel all possible pain when the activity or location costs the government absolutely nothing. Crap like this can come from nowhere but the very top. And I don't mean the very top of the military, but the very top. (and I seldom use a )

Political games, unfortunately there are casualties. Just another obstacle in life. You just got to overcome it.

 

[kinnem]

Political games, unfortunately there are casualties. Just another obstacle in life. You just got to overcome it.

Of course. But I can take the great pleasure of kicking and screaming at my members of Congress, just to let 'em know we're watching.

 

[NorwichDad]

Of course. But I can take the great pleasure of kicking and screaming at my members of Congress, just to let 'em know we're watching.

Not just a pleasure but a responsibility of being an American Citizen. Also your nose must be cold like Old Yeller!

 

[kinnem]

Not just a pleasure but a responsibility of being an American Citizen. Also your nose must be cold like Old Yeller!

It's freezing and about to fall off! Thanks for posting that article NorwichDad!

 

[goaliedad]

Article on Navy ROTC

This is interesting.

In addition to the guidelines about dealing with the press, Navy ROTC also received word Wednesday that all their community outreach events would be canceled or postponed until after the shutdown.

“This includes all external speaking engagements, color guard/ drill support (to include color guard participation at university and college sporting events), and command supported volunteer events,” Comer wrote Wednesday. “Even if events are at no cost to the government, or have already been approved, any external event where you or your students are official representatives of the Navy or Marine Corps shall be cancelled, declined or postponed until the end of the government shutdown.”

http://dailycaller.com/2013/10/03/n...press-told-they-can-speak-to-on-camera-press/

This is so stupid. Let's make everyone feel all possible pain when the activity or location costs the government absolutely nothing. Crap like this can come from nowhere but the very top. And I don't mean the very top of the military, but the very top. (and I seldom use a )

EDIT: Just fired off emails to my Congresswoman and Senator Kay Hagan on this. I'm furious, and my kid isn't even in the color guard any more. There is no need for this nonsense. Of interest is the fact that Sen. Richard Burr has shutdown his email contact page so I guess I'll have to get on the phone to this yellow bellied guy. Of course none of my emails will have any effect but I like to let these idiots know that we're watching.

EDIT 2: Fired one off to the Prez too. No reason he should escape my wrath!

Interesting... This seems to be a Navy/MC issue only with regards to color guards, etc. AROTC from what I'm being told is only hampered by access to non-military assets (like the GS van used to transport cadets).

As to the gag order, IMHO this is an attempt to test the cadets to see who complains about an order that has nothing to do with the budgets that actually pays for cadre officer salaries who are still running the activities nor any of the other assets employed. I suspect someone up the food chain (but below the cabinet level) decided to make a political point. I also suspect that this order will be modified and someone will get their hand slapped for making it (or maybe not if there are enough sympathizers in the COC).

Certainly the person who made this order is not in the business of "adapt and overcome" that is supposed to be the way things are done and instead is in the business of making a political statement.

I can accept this behavior out of civilian government operations (like the park service which hasn't figured out that closing an open space is not saving any money nor costing any money) that aren't necessarily charged with critical, life saving functions, but the Navy? C'mon man!

 

[Roxymom]

DS in AROTC understands Ranger Challenge next weekend may be rescheduled.

 

[kinnem]

@goaliedad - Definitely a politician. Still, don't understand why some higher level officers at NSTC didn't push back right out the gate.

@roxymom - that I can understand somewhat since civilian furloughs at whatever base is used might limit access. At least they are talking rescheduling. Good luck and congratulations to your DS.

 

[kinnem]

Feds try to close ocean due to shutdown!

This one says it all. I hope no foreign shipping tries to enter these waters. There could be an international incident!

http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2013/10/05/Feds-Try-to-Close-the-OCEAN-Because-of-Shutdown

 

[NorwichDad]

This one says it all. I hope no foreign shipping tries to enter these waters. There could be an international incident!

http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2013/10/05/Feds-Try-to-Close-the-OCEAN-Because-of-Shutdown

This is ridiculous. I try not to be political.

The Democrats are trying to regain the upper hand that Clinton got in the 90s with the shutdown. It is a different time with different circumstances. With control of the White House and the Senate they could appear to be the bad guys. This may not work out as they have hoped. There will be a lot of hearings on the shutdown.

 

[kinnem]

This is ridiculous. I try not to be political.

The Democrats are trying to regain the upper hand that Clinton got in the 90s with the shutdown. It is a different time with different circumstances. With control of the White House and the Senate they could appear to be the bad guys. This may not work out as they have hoped. There will be a lot of hearings on the shutdown.

I try to be apolitical as well, but this stuff is so transparent it seems bound to backfire.

 

[The OC Josh]

As to the gag order, IMHO this is an attempt to test the cadets to see who complains about an order that has nothing to do with the budgets that actually pays for cadre officer salaries who are still running the activities nor any of the other assets employed. I suspect someone up the food chain (but below the cabinet level) decided to make a political point. I also suspect that this order will be modified and someone will get their hand slapped for making it (or maybe not if there are enough sympathizers in the COC).

We got a similar order when DADT was being repealed. Basically, they don't want cadets mouthing off to the media and saying something they regret later on.

Also GSAs aren't available for use anymore. RC is cancelled because training area is closed. Civilians are furloughed. Stipends were paid, but will most likely be IOUs on the 15th. Also, accessions for us IVs will probably be pushed back because of the furloughs.

 

[goaliedad]

We got a similar order when DADT was being repealed. Basically, they don't want cadets mouthing off to the media and saying something they regret later on.

Also GSAs aren't available for use anymore. RC is cancelled because training area is closed. Civilians are furloughed. Stipends were paid, but will most likely be IOUs on the 15th. Also, accessions for us IVs will probably be pushed back because of the furloughs.

Not sure where your RC is being held, but I know they moved the RC for my daughter's BN and others nearby to their BN main campus and nearby public trails. Going to be a one-day event with an APFT, 4-mile run, and 10K ruck included in the event list. Definitely going to be a "challenge".

Adapt, improvise, overcome!

 

[goaliedad]

This is ridiculous. I try not to be political.

The Democrats are trying to regain the upper hand that Clinton got in the 90s with the shutdown. It is a different time with different circumstances. With control of the White House and the Senate they could appear to be the bad guys. This may not work out as they have hoped. There will be a lot of hearings on the shutdown.

I try to be apolitical as well, but this stuff is so transparent it seems bound to backfire.

I agree that a lot of these antics sound political and probably are. However, given the different levels of actions within the various government functions (even within the DoD - see AROTC vs NROTC color guard rules), I suspect these orders are being created by lower level officials (below the level of political appointee) with their own agenda to achieve.

If this were truly coming from the cabinet level officials, you'd see much more consistent "stupid actions" across the board, thus I don't see this as organized at the top. That doesn't relieve the folks at the top from cracking down on these idiots, but I still live by the old saying "Don't attribute to a conspiracy that which can be explained by simple stupidity." Plenty of that to go around.

 

[Ohio2015Parent]

UPDATE: DS did have to attend a 3 day drill this weekend...the kicker came yesterday when the announcement was made that no one's getting paid However, they did still get their overnight hotels covered. Possible back pay, but no guarantee.

Most instructors, HR and ROO at his BN are contractors and not able to work. MSII's were "supposed" to contract this past week, early next week...now postponed until this is over. Lab and lecture being covered for all 4 levels by the few remaining instructors.

FTX not until Nov so hopefully nothing changes and they also do use university property - not any military property - so should continue as planned.

DS is also hearing the 10/15 AROTC stipend may not happen - IOU or whatever....

This is a mess(understatement of the week)

Glad my DS doesn't need his pay to meet a mortgage or have dependents to feed. Thinking of those that do have true need for their pay checks

 

[Jcleppe]

Most instructors, HR and ROO at his BN are contractors and not able to work. MSII's were "supposed" to contract this past week, early next week...now postponed until this is over. Lab and lecture being covered for all 4 levels by the few remaining instructors.

This is really too bad for the cadets that were to contract. Not only will this slow doen the tuition and book money and stipends, this will mean that the chance for these cadets to apply for CULP could be effected as well. Wait...I wonder if there will even be CULP since there is probably nobody to process any paperwork.

I have to love the "News", and I use that word loosley, reporters that are saying..."Gee I don't really see any effect at all with this shutdown" The whole thing is making me sick.

 

[Jcleppe]

Government shutdown - it looks more and more like our DSs and DDs will have to remember Private Winger's (Movie Stripes) immortal words when dealing with this situation. Stepping up like Jcleppe's DS#2(He knows these words).

Cut it out! Cut it out! Cut it out! The hell's the matter with you?! Stupid! We're all very different people. We're not Watusi. We're not Spartans. We're Americans, with a capital 'A', huh? You know what that means? Do ya? That means that our forefathers were kicked out of every decent country in the world. We are the wretched refuse. We're the underdog. We're mutts! Here's proof: his nose is cold! But there's no animal that's more faithful, that's more loyal, more loveable than the mutt. Who saw Old Yeller? Who cried when Old Yeller got shot at the end? [raises his hand] Nobody cried when Old Yeller got shot? I'm sure. [hands are reluctantly raised] I cried my eyes out. [even more hands go up] So we're all dogfaces. We're all very, very different, but there is one thing that we all have in common: we were all stupid enough to enlist in the Army. We're mutants. There's something wrong with us, something very, very wrong with us. Something seriously wrong with us! We're soldiers, but we're American soldiers! We've been kickin' ass for 200 years! We're 10 and 1! Now we don't have to worry about whether or not we practiced. We don't have to worry about whether Captain Stillman wants to have us hung. All we have to do is to be the great American fighting soldier that is inside each one of us. Now do what I do, and say what I say. And make me proud. Fall in!

That's a fact, Jack!!!!

 

[EDelahanty]

That's a fact, Jack!!!!

Thanks for the inspiring quote. Here's one about international finance from the Marx Brothers' movie Duck Soup. (Rufus T. Firefly is the Prime Minister of Fredonia and Trentino is the ambassador from the country's rival)

Rufus T. Firefly: [to Trentino] Now, how about lending this country twenty million dollars, you old skinflint?
Ambassador Trentino: Twenty million dollars is a lot of money. I'd have to take that up with my Minister of Finance.
Rufus T. Firefly: Well, in the meantime, could you let me have twelve dollars until payday?
Ambassador Trentino: Twelve dollars?
Rufus T. Firefly: Don't be scared, you'll get it back. I'll give you my personal note for ninety days. If it isn't paid by then, you can... keep the note.

 

[NorwichDad]

I agree that a lot of these antics sound political and probably are. However, given the different levels of actions within the various government functions (even within the DoD - see AROTC vs NROTC color guard rules), I suspect these orders are being created by lower level officials (below the level of political appointee) with their own agenda to achieve.

If this were truly coming from the cabinet level officials, you'd see much more consistent "stupid actions" across the board, thus I don't see this as organized at the top. That doesn't relieve the folks at the top from cracking down on these idiots, but I still live by the old saying "Don't attribute to a conspiracy that which can be explained by simple stupidity." Plenty of that to go around.

Thinking about that I agree with you. Makes a lot a sense. Corporations are disfunctional like that, I can only believe that the govt is more so. As for cracking down on these folks, to quote JFK on Saturday October 27, 1962, "There is always some son of a ***** who doesn't get the word."

 

[VB DAD]

DS has been told by his unit; Cadet Command has informed them they will not be paid on the 15th Oct.

 

[jchaff1134]

Update from Ohio

Hey all, Ohio AROTC here.

Been hearing a lot of effects on this forum and from my buddies in other states and thought I'd share an update on what effects our program has seen:

- Our finance and recruiting guys are still furloughed but may come back to work this week. Not too much has been getting done in the offices for this reason.

- Stipend pay is suspended for all cadets until further notice. Also all of the SMP cadets in my platoon reported that they were not paid for drill.

-FTX is scheduled for the weekend of 01NOV, but we use gov vehicles and conduct it at Camp Sherman (ARNG site) so we're crossing our fingers that things are resolved by then. Three of my friends from other schools have had Ranger Challenge and FTX cancelled, but they were set for this month.

-Ranger Challenge is set to occur the weekend before Halloween and so far as we know it is still on.

Keeping everyone who's been affected by this, cadets, civilians, and families alike, in our thoughts and prayers. We're doing our best to be motivated leaders and avoid the example set by our congressional leaders.