March 8th, 2011 AROTC Board

[FloridaDad]

I think you probably do get better soldiers from SMCs which makes a mockery of the over reliance of GPA and SAT when handing out scholarships.

Many State schools have been building impressive ROTC facilities and that gives the military a low cost alternative during scholarship season. I think the writing is on the wall and cost is going to become a defining factor in scholarship allocations.

Personally I think they should simply cap payments at $10k per year. Then they know up front the maximum a scholarship will be is $60k for four years.

 

[patentesq]

I think you probably do get better soldiers from SMCs which makes a mockery of the over reliance of GPA and SAT when handing out scholarships.

Many State schools have been building impressive ROTC facilities and that gives the military a low cost alternative during scholarship season. I think the writing is on the wall and cost is going to become a defining factor in scholarship allocations.

Personally I think they should simply cap payments at $10k per year. Then they know up front the maximum a scholarship will be is $60k for four years.

I have to say that the Air Force ROTC process is MUCH more straight-forward. In Army ROTC, there seem to be too many "unwritten" rules at play.

Totally agree that many state schools have awesome ROTC programs. What I really don't fully understand is why some our so-called "elite" schools are getting ANY attention from the Army when these are the same schools that have rejected ROTC for so long. It almost seems to punish those schools that have been supportive of ROTC, FOR DECADES, even during the Vietnam era. From an outsider's perspective, it seems pretty arrogant for some schools to expect the Army to jump as soon as the school decides that is is now in a position to welcome back ROTC onto its campus (incidently, my DS disagrees with me on this issue).

 

[FloridaDad]

I would personally like to see larger ROTC batalions in State schools and reduce the number of colleges offering ROTC. You would get the benefits of economyof scale.

 

[Ohio2015Parent]

Congress has expressly prohibited any reduction to SMC:


(d) Termination or Reduction of Program Prohibited.— The Secretary of Defense and the Secretaries of the military departments may not take or authorize any action to terminate or reduce a unit of the Senior Reserve Officers’ Training Corps at a senior military college unless the termination or reduction is specifically requested by the college.


http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/html/uscode10/usc_sec_10_00002111---a000-.html

Just to clarify for my own understanding: just like WP(and other SAs) there is a base number of cadets each SMC is guaranteed, so the correction in numbers at any of the SMCs may simply be readjusting to base levels after 10years of "over" enrollment of ROTC scholarships due to 9/11 and resulting wars. Similar to the overall reduction in scholarships to state/regular ROTC units. Am I in the ballpark?

 

[gojack]

Just to clarify for my own understanding: just like WP(and other SAs) there is a base number of cadets each SMC is guaranteed, so the correction in numbers at any of the SMCs may simply be readjusting to base levels after 10years of "over" enrollment of ROTC scholarships due to 9/11 and resulting wars. Similar to the overall reduction in scholarships to state/regular ROTC units. Am I in the ballpark?

You are correct.



http://uscode.house.gov/download/pls/10C103.txt
10 USC Sec. 2111a 02/01/2010
-EXPCITE-
TITLE 10 - ARMED FORCES
Subtitle A - General Military Law
PART III - TRAINING AND EDUCATION
CHAPTER 103 - SENIOR RESERVE OFFICERS' TRAINING CORPS
-HEAD-
Sec. 2111a. Support for senior military colleges
-STATUTE-
...
(d) Termination or Reduction of Program Prohibited. - The
Secretary of Defense and the Secretaries of the military
departments may not take or authorize any action to terminate or
reduce a unit of the Senior Reserve Officers' Training Corps at a
senior military college unless the termination or reduction is
specifically requested by the college.
(e) Assignment to Active Duty. - (1) The Secretary of the Army
shall ensure that a graduate of a senior military college who
desires to serve as a commissioned officer on active duty upon
graduation from the college, who is medically and physically
qualified for active duty, and who is recommended for such duty by
the professor of military science at the college, shall be assigned
to active duty.
(2) Nothing in this section shall be construed to prohibit the
Secretary of the Army from requiring a member of the program who
graduates from a senior military college to serve on active duty.
(f) Senior Military Colleges. - The senior military colleges are
the following:
(1) Texas A&M University.
(2) Norwich University.
(3) The Virginia Military Institute.
(4) The Citadel.
(5) Virginia Polytechnic Institute and State University.
(6) North Georgia College and State University.

 

[patentesq]

Just to clarify for my own understanding: just like WP(and other SAs) there is a base number of cadets each SMC is guaranteed, so the correction in numbers at any of the SMCs may simply be readjusting to base levels after 10years of "over" enrollment of ROTC scholarships due to 9/11 and resulting wars. Similar to the overall reduction in scholarships to state/regular ROTC units. Am I in the ballpark?

The curious thing about this statute is that it speaks to reductions in programs, not scholarships. There is no guarantee on the number of scholarships to an SMC, so I suppose it would be permissible for CC to shift scholarships to another school (but it would be required to maintain the same level of cadre support and cadet strength at the SMC).

As a practical matter, you and gojack are correct in that the number of scholarship reductions at the SMCs should be on par with the overall reduction nationwide. The only thing that is different this year is that CC is pushing to increase the number of scholarships to "tier 1" schools, so while you might see a reduction of scholarships at SMCs, there may be a sharper reduction at "tier 2 and 3" schools to accommodate CC's desire to award more scholarships at the "tier 1" schools. Dunno what a "tier 1" school is.

 

[Jcleppe]

A majority of the posts seem to deal with the "How Scholarships are awarded" and don't address the "Why".

In past years scholarships were almost non existent, only a few were given, some schools had no cadets on scholarship. ROTC Scholarships are in a way very similar to the signing bonuses given to enlisted soldiers. Since 2001 through the build up and deployments the dollar amount for enlisted bonuses increased, a lot. The reason of course was recruitment and retention. The same was true for ROTC, the economy was good, we were in two wars, and officer recruitment was down. Scholarships were used to entice college bound students to join the military and have their college paid.

Fast forward to 2011, the need is not as great due to many factors, the economy is still trying to recover, add to that the draw down in Iraq and the planned draw down in Afganistan, the level of difficulty in regard to recruitment is much lower. The bonuses of the past are not given as much to enlisted soldiers, renlistment bonuses are much smaller. The need for scholarships for ROTC has dropped as well.

ROTC will most likely go back to batallions that have very few if any scholarship cadets, several SMP cadets and the rest non scholarship cadets that will contract their junior year based on the needs of the Army. This will be nothing new, they will just be cycling back to the way it used to be. This shift will result in a large budget savings, I do not see any move toward eliminating ROTC units, in fact there have been units added over the past few years.

My older son was part of the last cadet class that had scholarships awarded by the batallions, when I asked the PMS at that time what he thought of the new system, his answer was "It should be interesting". Talking to the current PMS his comment was "Some of the cadets CC selects are great, and some we just scratch our head and wonder what were they thinking" I see it as a plus that CC may now be allowing more in school scholarships giving the cadre a chance to see the cadets and evaluate them before offering a scholarship. If this happens we may see as a result more in state cadets due to the fact that students will most likely attend colleges that they can afford if the scholarship is not offered.

Most of the kids represented on this board say they will attend college and join ROTC with or without a scholarship. I guess that is my point, ROTC batallions will still operate and train future officers despite the lack of scholarships. The scholarships were a bonus that may not be very available in the future.

 

[tonk002]

I would personally like to see larger ROTC batalions in State schools and reduce the number of colleges offering ROTC. You would get the benefits of economyof scale.

Why? State schools, mostly flagships, do not offer the same teacher-student ratio as a liberal arts school and often offer a different type of academic focus (research) that is not appealing to many students.

 

[FloridaDad]

Why? State schools, mostly flagships, do not offer the same teacher-student ratio as a liberal arts school and often offer a different type of academic focus (research) that is not appealing to many students.

Because State schools are usually better value for money and larger. Fewer but larger battalions that cost the military less is more desirable than what students want. Its tax payers money and sooner or later budget will pretty much dictate the outcome.

 

[Jcleppe]

Again the fixation seems to be with scholarships. If the need goes down the Army will simply go back to what was done in the past and offer very few scholarships. The ROTC batallions will continue, students will enroll, commissions will be given, without scholarship money. This alone will save millions in funding.

 

[Ohio2015Parent]

Because State schools are usually better value for money and larger. Fewer but larger battalions that cost the military less is more desirable than what students want. Its tax payers money and sooner or later budget will pretty much dictate the outcome.

Again the fixation seems to be with scholarships. If the need goes down the Army will simply go back to what was done in the past and offer very few scholarships. The ROTC batallions will continue, students will enroll, commissions will be given, without scholarship money. This alone will save millions in funding.

I could see where both of your ideas will be merged to lower costs. Consolidate, state schools for the "value" to in state participates(this would actually happen naturally under Jcleppe's example, fewer would attempt to attend dream schools/privates/OOS without scholarship money up front) and yes, comissions will still be earned by worthy cadets.

Now that the March 8th board has closed we can all begin waiting for the results. Three weeks? Seven weeks? somewhere in between....hoping for early April for all of our sakes.

Take care.

 

[patentesq]

CR is apparently going to be extended another three weeks!! http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.co...-another-short-term-funding-bill/#more-150043

 

[gojack]

IMHO
The speculation about AROTC cut backs and such is getting just a bit 'out there'...
The entire AROTC program probably costs what 10-20 Abrams cost,
and the Army has bought literally thousands of Abrams.
New lieutenants will continue to be needed to command those tanks...
ROTC will continue, scholarships will be doled out - as needed to attract
talented officers; with the current draw down, yes it will be less than during the
recent conflicts... But dramatic and wholesale changes would require congress to
get involved, and they can't find their a$$ with both hands right now.

 

[Ohio2015Parent]

IMHO
The speculation about AROTC cut backs and such is getting just a bit 'out there'...
The entire AROTC program probably costs what 10-20 Abrams cost,
and the Army has bought literally thousands of Abrams.
New lieutenants will continue to be needed to command those tanks...
ROTC will continue, scholarships will be doled out - as needed to attract
talented officers; with the current draw down, yes it will be less than during the
recent conflicts... But dramatic and wholesale changes would require congress to
get involved, and they can't find their a$$ with both hands right now.

Best post of the day...can't find their a$$ with both hands.....there was my big laugh for the day. Love that it came from Gojack, normally so professional with the links everyone lives for -- Thank you for putting it so layman's terms. Priceless. Yes, I'm easily amused this time of night.

Have a good one - tomorrow we can start taking bets on which day the results start posting this board(hey, we need something to pass the time)

 

[paradoxer]

Only Appropriate

Have a good one - tomorrow we can start taking bets on which day the results start posting this board(hey, we need something to pass the time)

Seems obvious that the results should be issued on April 1st. That way when everyone posts that their status has changed we will think it's an April's Fool joke! Also so appropriate after all this waiting that some of us would receive life changing news on a day that previously was filled with pranks (at our house the time when DS tied rubber bands to the kitchen sink sprayer so the user would be drenched lives in infamy); would love to have two days never to be forgotten for the most different of reasons. Have a good prank to share while we wait?

But if not, will follow Pima's advice to enjoy the last few months with DS as we travel to first school choice over spring break to see if this is the place for the next four years; status change or not it will be a great weekend for (hopefully) a final decision.

 

[EDelahanty]

Cutbacks

IMHO
The speculation about AROTC cut backs and such is getting just a bit 'out there'...
The entire AROTC program probably costs what 10-20 Abrams cost,
and the Army has bought literally thousands of Abrams.
New lieutenants will continue to be needed to command those tanks...
ROTC will continue, scholarships will be doled out - as needed to attract
talented officers; with the current draw down, yes it will be less than during the
recent conflicts... But dramatic and wholesale changes would require congress to
get involved, and they can't find their a$$ with both hands right now.

GOJACK, let me be the first (and, hopefully, the last) to say tanks a lot for putting things in perspective.

 

[Ohio2015Parent]

Seems obvious that the results should be issued on April 1st. That way when everyone posts that their status has changed we will think it's an April's Fool joke! Also so appropriate after all this waiting that some of us would receive life changing news on a day that previously was filled with pranks (at our house the time when DS tied rubber bands to the kitchen sink sprayer so the user would be drenched lives in infamy); would love to have two days never to be forgotten for the most different of reasons. Have a good prank to share while we wait?

But if not, will follow Pima's advice to enjoy the last few months with DS as we travel to first school choice over spring break to see if this is the place for the next four years; status change or not it will be a great weekend for (hopefully) a final decision.

Hope you have a great spring break trip! My kiddos in high school have spring break 3/27 - 4/1, no big plans this year since younger DD has winter guard championships that week(big, big deal to her so her brother will just have to deal with it) College DD just went back to school today-was interesting having her home-she's changing majors and will cost us a 5th year. Be prepared, even the ones who "think" they know can change their minds. She didn't change much-Secondary Chem/Physics to Middle Grade Science/Math, but it will take 2 extra semesters...just so long as she can find a job when its done!!

I'm going to take April 7th - don't have a particular reason, just like that day, its a Thursday, January results started on a Thursday and my DOB is a 7th so that is enough reasoning for me. CC will do what it wants, 4/1 and 4/7 are taken so who else wants to play?

 

[CBoyd1024]

Emailed CC the other day and asked when the results from this March board would be released.. They replied to me saying 2-4 weeks. That is a much quicker response then I think any of us were thinking. But I agree with everyone else it will probably be a few days into April when we start hearing any news after response deadline of 31 March. Also makes sense they will send out letters sooner than January board due to transfer requests etc. in late April. Good luck to everyone.

 

[paradoxer]

Very encouraging

Emailed CC the other day and asked when the results from this March board would be released.. They replied to me saying 2-4 weeks. That is a much quicker response then I think any of us were thinking. But I agree with everyone else it will probably be a few days into April when we start hearing any news after response deadline of 31 March. Also makes sense they will send out letters sooner than January board due to transfer requests etc. in late April. Good luck to everyone.

Nice to know that they were able to respond and actually give a timeframe. April 1st just may be a real possibility.

 

[Ohio2015Parent]

Nice to know that they were able to respond and actually give a timeframe. April 1st just may be a real possibility.

Love how you all are so optomistic, but this is the same CC that told people all kinds of stuff prior to the January boards results too.(half laughing/half crying at this point) I hope they know more and are being more upfront this time, but I'll stick with the 7th....if I'm wrong and its earlier, I'll own it.

Paradoxer, how long will be at DS school for his visit? Make sure he gets to see everything(been a way too many school visits w/ DD & DS)sometimes what they think is important for tours isn't what he'll need to see -- push the issue with Admissions and they will get him in and if you need to see other people(profs, advisors, make sure who sets up those appointments) Everyone has always been great about helping us get what we needed from the visits, sometimes we just had to ask.