Pentagon Religious Advisor Calls Christian Troops “Traitors” & “Spiritual Rapists"

I can live with that. May be a turn of events, but that's fine. As long as the military's position is fair for all, I have no problem with it.
 
scoutpilot said:
We have plenty of chaplains come through here. No one cares that all they hold is a Bible study, and do nothing to serve the needs of the Muslim US interpreters, or the Jewish Soldiers we have, or the atheists or Unitarians or anyone else. The Christian needs are met, so everyone smiles and slaps the chaplains on the back. It's good to be the majority.
Click to expand...

Is it really like that out there? That sucks.

I call myself an atheist (can't be 100% certain, of course, but think the evidence suggests that a god (or gods) is/are unlikely...don't want to debate that with any believer out there, just pointing out where I'm coming from on this), and never had much interaction with chaplains when I was on AD. I do remember there being one time when a group of us met with several chaplains (whom, I believe, were Roman Catholic priests) to talk about some morale difficulties our unit was having. Religion wasn't even mentioned, strangely enough.

I always thought military chaplains were supposed to be available for everyone, and if they were of a different religion than that of the service member, they could find avenues for that soldier/airman/sailor etc. to worship. They also served as general morale consultants, for lack of a better term.

I do know of one guy that I served with in the missile field who, after his initial assignment was up, went to get a Talmudic Studies graduate degree and then re-entered the service to become an AF Rabbi. They exist, although few and far between, I'm sure.

By the way, your post is spot-on, as usual.
 
Last edited:
Can't say what happens today, but when I was in the gulf, there were friday, saturday, sunday, and wednesday services of some form or another. Anyone that had a "Spiritual/Religious" need, was accomodated. I know for a fact, there were jewish, christian, and scientology gatherings. The feeling/message was: If you had a need/desire for some religious requirements, they would find a way to accomodate. In all the time I spent in the middle east, I don't remember anyone having a gripe or complaint about their religious needs being met. And while I do profess being a christian, I don't go to organized church. So I and the agnostics, atheists, etc... never felt left out or pressured towards any type of religion.
 
Just thought I should throw this out there, the author Joe Calandra JR. is a nut job who cherry picks facts and spins them in a way that fits into his Tea Party agenda (read his other articles) and liberty news is more bias than anything that comes out of Bill O'reilly's mouth. So it seems to me that this article is a pile of BS that contains nothing but hand picked facts that Calandra uses to forward this ridiculous idea that there is a war on Christianity.

Sent using the Service Academy Forums® mobile app.
 
Art.Perea said:
this article is a pile of BS that contains nothing but hand picked facts that Calandra uses to forward this ridiculous idea that there is a war on Christianity.
Click to expand...

Ah, well then, if the article is a pile of BS, it really captures Mikey's ideas....
 
LineInTheSand said:
Ah, well then, if the article is a pile of BS, it really captures Mikey's ideas....
Click to expand...

Have you read about Mikey from any other sources? Because according to this article he was never hired by the pentagon http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friend...ikey-weinstein-was-not-hired-by-the-pentagon/

And this article says he met with the Pentagon, not that he was hired. http://www.woai.com/content/news/ne...down-on-religious/I_udaRKwXkOYsJiLU3E4zA.cspx

And here is another article that says the Pentagon asked for his advice
http://gazette.com/pentagons-strange-alliance-with-mikey-weinstein/article/1500225

The pentagon can ask for advice from whomever they please, it doesn't mean that this man has any power at all. And all this does is prove my point that the author is picking facts and spinning it into something that it isn't. So how can we know that anything Joe says about Weinstein said is true?

Sent using the Service Academy Forums® mobile app.
 
somedays I get the feeling 90% of Americans are out for a nice walk when somebody from far left side or the far right side of the path pick up a steamy pile of stuff they believe in and throws at the people on the other side of the path, who then fires a steamy pile back at the other side. The 90% of us who are walking down the center soon get covered in the piles of steamy stuff
 
Last edited:
And before you get on O'Reilly, Mikey was on O'Reilly last night, and it was far less explosive that I thought it would be.
 
pathnottaken said:
somedays I get the feeling 90% of Americans are out for a nice walk when somebody from far left side or the far right side of the path pick up a steam pile of stuff they believe in and throws at the people on the other side of the path, who then fires back a steaming pile back at the other side. The 90% of us who are walking down the center soon get covered in the piles of steamy stuff
Click to expand...

+1

Sent using the Service Academy Forums® mobile app.
 
I have also learned to be wary of selective quotations over the years . . . the ellipse (that's the dot-dot-dot) can be a tricky little sucker. So I'd be interested in seeing the full original quotation in its original context before making a judgment on it. It sounds like Weinstein is a rhetorical bomb thrower, but I always like to see all of the context.
 
This is one of the most frustrating things I have ever heard. I was at a political dinner last Friday night and I heard this. I thought I must be going crazy or I had heard wrong or SOMETHING. I mean, it shouldn't surprise me, but it does. I believe that this country was founded on the freedom of religion IT IS IN THE FIRST AMENDMENT. What is wrong with a soldier using the same freedom that they have sworn to protect?!?! It is outrageous. I just can't believe it. I am a christian, but I believe in the freedom of religion REGARDLESS OF WHICH RELIGION.

This is one thing I will definitely be keeping up with.

Ashleigh
 
USMA2020 said:
This is one of the most frustrating things I have ever heard. I was at a political dinner last Friday night and I heard this. I thought I must be going crazy or I had heard wrong or SOMETHING. I mean, it shouldn't surprise me, but it does. I believe that this country was founded on the freedom of religion IT IS IN THE FIRST AMENDMENT. What is wrong with a soldier using the same freedom that they have sworn to protect?!?! It is outrageous. I just can't believe it. I am a christian, but I believe in the freedom of religion REGARDLESS OF WHICH RELIGION.

This is one thing I will definitely be keeping up with.

Ashleigh
Click to expand...

I'm not sure where you are coming from? Also, did you read through the entire thread?

People are free to practice their first amendment rights in the military within the bounds of good order and discipline. There is a reason this issue comes up such as a few years ago when USAFA changed its top leadership out due to inappropriate proselytizing. The pentagon has since made very clear what the policy is. Evangelizing to a willing participant is in no way a violation of policy; proselytizing to an unwilling participant (especially when differing levels of the chain of command are involved) is strictly prohibited. That has been the case for a very long time.
 
USMA2020 said:
This is one of the most frustrating things I have ever heard. I was at a political dinner last Friday night and I heard this. I thought I must be going crazy or I had heard wrong or SOMETHING. I mean, it shouldn't surprise me, but it does. I believe that this country was founded on the freedom of religion IT IS IN THE FIRST AMENDMENT. What is wrong with a soldier using the same freedom that they have sworn to protect?!?! It is outrageous. I just can't believe it. I am a christian, but I believe in the freedom of religion REGARDLESS OF WHICH RELIGION.

This is one thing I will definitely be keeping up with.

Ashleigh
Click to expand...

Ashleigh, the issue is more nuanced and complex than what you may have heard or may currently understand it to be.

The First Amendment has two clauses that pertain to religion: (1) the "Free Exercise clause," which essentially says that the government cannot interfere with your freedom to worship; and (2) the "Establishment clause," which essentially says the government cannot establish/endorse religion. As you can imagine, sometimes the two clauses would seemingly be at odds with each other -- what if your religion tells you to spread the word/envangelize or to serve as a missionary (Free Exercise clause), but you are a government employee and the government cannot be seen to be endorsing religion (Establishment clause).

So, the first thing to remember when you are thinking at how the military deals with religion is that the First Amendment includes the Establishment Clause and not just the Free Exercise clause.

The second thing to remember is that the U.S. Supreme Court, in 1986, ruled that although service members in uniform have First Amendment freedom of religion under the Free Exercise clause, that First Amendment religious freedom right is MORE LIMITED than for civilians; and the Courts will be "far more deferential" to limits that the military places on religious displays, worship, etc. if the military in its judgement finds those regulations to be important to discipline, obedience, unity, etc. (That case is called Goldman v. Weinberger.)
 
Doesn't get much more clear than this:

Forum on the Military Chaplaincy
May 8 at 8:08pm ·
The following "Newsgram" was released today by the Military Chaplains Association (MCA), USA, a professional support and Veterans Service Organization. According to their web site, MCA is "dedicated to the religious freedom and spiritual welfare of our Armed Services members, Veterans, their families, and their survivors." Members are serving or have served in the Army, Navy, Air Force, Department of Veterans Affairs, or Air Force Auxiliary Civil Air Patrol chaplaincies. Associate Members come from among other chaplains, chaplain assistants, religious faith group leaders, and those interested in supporting military chaplaincy.

The Forum on the Military Chaplaincy commends MCA's national leadership for their clarion call for responsible inquiry, reason and restraint in the face of rumor and innuendo.

NEWSGRAM
Military Chaplains Association (MCA)
May 8, 2013

Condemnation without investigation almost always promulgates a lie. In the last few weeks, several "controversies" have been raised by groups and individuals, posted on the internet, and distributed via e-mail. They are further spread through various print and public media, stirring passions and raising questions about the hostile intent of the Department of Defense toward faith communities in America. I have received these responses from the Department to each of these concerns:

The PowerPoint slide: It was a mistake by one person on one occasion, and was corrected over a year ago.

SBC Web Site Blocked: A result of malware, not DoD action.

Mikey Weinstein as DoD Consultant? Not true

Threats of Courts Martial for expressing one's faith: The DoD's response: "Service members can share their faith (evangelize), but must not force unwanted, intrusive attempts to convert others of any faith or no faith to one's beliefs (proselytization)." This was the same guidance I received in the 1970s.

Each of these concerns merits investigation and calls for a clear answer. Raising the questions calmly with the responsible parties helps to promote the cause of insuring the First Amendment rights of our service members. We must remain vigilant for truth and at the same time be very careful about passing on innuendo and unsubstantiated rumors. In my opinion these situations do not indicate a conscious assault on freedom of religion.

Robert Certain, Executive Director
Military Chaplains Association
Arlington, Virginia
Click to expand...
 
LineInTheSand said:
Explain "radical"....
Click to expand...

rad·i·cal [ ráddik'l ] 1.basic: relating to or affecting the basic nature or most important features of something
2.pervasive: far-reaching, searching, or thoroughgoing
3.favoring major changes: favoring or making economic, political, or social changes of a sweeping or extreme nature


I believe 3) was the definition being used.
 
pathnottaken said:
rad·i·cal [ ráddik'l ] 1.basic: relating to or affecting the basic nature or most important features of something
2.pervasive: far-reaching, searching, or thoroughgoing
3.favoring major changes: favoring or making economic, political, or social changes of a sweeping or extreme nature


I believe 3) was the definition being used.
Click to expand...

Ah, so Obama is a radical. OK. I understand now.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top