Plebe summer numbers?

coachkarl said:
This is my biggest concern right now.
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The SAs have had lots of practice figuring out success factors in appointees. There is also lots of help available with extra instruction (EI), company study groups, professors' office hours, academic center counselors. The plebes learn to work together to knock stuff out, as well as help each other with academics. Once the ac year starts, you may hear about "getting our boards done." I will leave that tantalizing item for your plebe to explain.

It will be painful, this first year. They figure it out through collective problem-solving, increased self-discipline and plain hard work. They will amaze themselves with how fast they begin to operate, how efficient they become with time management. By the time a year or so goes by, they will be at ease in the pressure cooker, confident in their skills. It will be no less hard, but they will have learned to dig deep and conquer the challenges.

If you look at photos of Commissioning Day, with the covers all in the air, their faces show unbelievable relief and joy, because the pressure is finally off. New pressure will soon start, at TBS or flight school or facing their sailors at their first morning quarters aboard ship, but they know how to attack it.
 
Capt MJ said:
It will be painful, this first year. They figure it out through collective problem-solving, increased self-discipline and plain hard work. They will amaze themselves with how fast they begin to operate, how efficient they become with time management. By the time a year or so goes by, they will be at ease in the pressure cooker, confident in their skills. It will be no less hard, but they will have learned to dig deep and conquer the challenges.
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Understood and my son & I spoke at length about this leading up to I Day. His recipe for academic success was to just "create more time" for things - cut sleep back to 2 or 3 hours, skip solo practice time on his instrument, push of an individual work out at the gym. He new the rigidity of the USNA schedule would not really allow that, so we talked about tighter time management and, above all, asking for help early. I will obviously need to reiterate that before the AC year commences.
 
The minute a mid knows they are academically struggling (or "scuffling," as is oddly said in MLB), they should head right to EI. No shame in that. Somebody gets the C,D, F grades on quizzes, exams, papers and courses. USNA is hard to get into, but once in, the support system is there for any struggling mid.

Your DS will learn to optimize across all gradable areas, instead of maximizing in one area. Being "sat" in academics, military performance, conduct and physical fitness is an excellent goal, escaping the time suck of mandatory remedial action in any area. Then, working your way up the OOM (Order of Merit) class standing to improve chances of desired service selection, graduate school options, etc., becomes the focus.

All that being said, it's also important to have fun, bond with classmates, explore Annapolis, take advantage of ECA field trips.
 
Capt MJ nailed it. It's all about balance. Cutting back on sleep is generally not a good thing for most Mids. Being awake and alert in class is pivotal to getting the most out of class. There are lots of free periods and hours after class to study. My biggest advice to any new Plebe is get out of the hall to study and hide your phone during study period. The beginning of the AC year is hard to adjust because as Capt MJ stated they have boards, new chain of command, new knowledge to learn. They all learn how to time manage and balance the academic, physical and military mission of USNA.
 
It is also about constrained failure! Not failing classes, which is never a desired outcome, but the smaller-scale and shorter-term. It's about adjusting learning strategies and priorities because memorization is great for rates and Blue Jackets, but not so effective for writing papers and team projects in calc. "Oh, geez, I got a C on my 6-week calc exam." Get thee to EI NOW - now and for the next six weeks! Get off the Yak, get off Facetime, catch 20-minute catnaps in Nimitz, make sure you're SAT in military and conduct and pour everything into academics. Adjust strategies when necessary and don't cling to what's not working!
 
At the end of each semester, formal Academic Boards convene, faced with the task of interviewing midshipmen in academic trouble, those with less than a certain GPA overall or problems in one specific course. The outcome is retention or separation. When a mid in my batt was called before one of these, facing the Supe, Dant, Ac Dean, etc., with multiple video screens showing grades, trend lines, prof comments, and evaluations on the wall, I and the mid's Company Officer and Company Senior Enlisted Leader were called in to observe and comment on other non-academic aspects. It was always heart-breaking to see a mid, subdued and quiet-voiced, be asked why he/she did not seek help when needed. Much pride went before many falls in these cases. Many who had never had less than an A in HS were in denial. Most damaging were the profs' comments, such as: "I encouraged Midn Jones to attend EI after his D at 6 weeks, but he never attended." "After her F on the mid-term, Midn Smith failed to take advantage of the opportunity to write an additional paper, which I would have averaged in with the mid-term grade."

There are so many plebes who fail Calc or Chem or both, less formal Academic Review Boards convene for those, and unless they are deficient in other areas (performance, conduct, physical), they are granted involuntary summer school.

There were those mids who went to a second Ac Board, and it was clear they were not going to be successful. The Board pays a lot of attention to struggling 3/c, because they don't want that mid to accept their 2/c commitment if they are in perpetual jeopardy. If retained, advisers work with the mid to possibly change majors, lighten the load by adding summer school, or even approving delayed graduation in August or December of their class year.

2020 parents, if your plebe says he has a C (OMG! First C!) at 6 weeks, he or she is sat. Don't sweat it, don't push. That could be the best DS/DD could eke out, and if they are sat everywhere else, life is good. Sometimes they take a semester to find their footing. Listen for their specifics on how they plan to improve. Applaud EI, study groups, etc. If they wave off a visit with you because they are sweating the books, trust their judgment and smile bravely.

Didn't mean to go on and on. Ac year looms after PPW, and there will be anxious phone conversations. Not all mids approve their parents for access to grades.
 
DS' friend was over and mentioned she got a B for a class she took during summer school. She was bemoaning the grade and DS commented to me that most plebes would be happy with a C. He knows several mids that had to take summer school. During plebe year he gave up weekend liberty and activities on the Yard to study, and cut phone calls short because he didn't have time to chat. It did ease up as the year progressed, but we realized early on (when he didn't return calls, etc) we had to take a step back and wait for DS to contact us on his terms. We did not realize that in addition to academics, sports, plebes have other obligations, like standing watch. 2020 parents be prepared for the academic year. Your plebe may not call home as often as you would hope, or respond immediately to your texts. Besides PPW your next opportunity to spend quality time with your Plebe may be Thanksgiving or Christmas Break.
 
As someone who went to an Academic Board I think Capt MJ's post gave me flash backs! I might have to go find my safe space! All joking aside, that is exactly what it's like. But, I was one of those that had reviews that said, 'Midn WT Door has a D but has attended more EI sessions than any other student, is attentive in class and works hard.' That is what saved me and the habits I developed finally paid off. 3/C year I was on Dant's list. It's weird how the academics get harder as you progress but it's so much easier to handle as you move along too.
 
Hoops, sorry, didn't mean to take you back to the long green table. I was always so impressed by mids who said "I have a plan; this is what I'm going to do." With prof comments noting how hard they had worked and "retain him/her" recommendations, many a mid who was circling the drain was thrown a life preserver.

Everyone involved worked hard to retain those who had a solid shot at making it with a helping hand, while also doing the hard task of separating those for whom the journey needed to end.

And lest anyone think, the Ac Board candidates must be those who barely squeaked in, or whose stats were less than many who didn't get in, that was not the case. Right there on the wall were application academic stats, and the Board would probe the mid on why they were not performing as their potential would indicate. For some, it was painfully clear they simply did not want to be there, and let themselves self-destruct.

Clearly the Board did the right thing by retaining Hoops!
 
As other have said, it is OKAY to ask for help...everyone has their strengths and weaknesses...it is MORE important to know when you need help. This problem doesn't go away after USNA, as young junior officers will enter a profession where they will certainly NOT know everything and need help...knowing WHEN to ask for help is critical. A ship's commanding officer has to have confidence that his/her officer of the deck (junior officer) will make a phone call to him/her at 0230 when help is needed. It isn't always a sign of weakness and in some cases, thinking you can solve a problem alone can make the situation worse or result in serious consequences to equipment/personnel. So if it is hard for a MIDN to do that with academics...will they be able to do it when equipment and lives are at stake?
 
NavyHoops said:
As someone who went to an Academic Board I think Capt MJ's post gave me flash backs! I might have to go find my safe space! All joking aside, that is exactly what it's like. But, I was one of those that had reviews that said, 'Midn WT Door has a D but has attended more EI sessions than any other student, is attentive in class and works hard.' That is what saved me and the habits I developed finally paid off. 3/C year I was on Dant's list. It's weird how the academics get harder as you progress but it's so much easier to handle as you move along too.
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Parents (and plebes, when you get computer privs), this is so important to remember too: sometimes it takes a few weeks or months or a semester to bring the ship about! It's not just that college is hard and USNA is a particularly hard college, it's that your plebes must adjust to a very different way of learning than most are used to. Throughout their first 12 years, they've had worksheets and daily assignments, with parents checking them off in a folder everyday. They've had parents checking performance in CMS. Their teachers remind them every day of the quiz on Monday and which pages will be on it. They have time to work on assignments in class and at scheduled study hall. (so on, so forth - thanks, NCLB). Now they're moving to an environment where they'll have 2-3 midterms and a final every few weeks. They'll be asked to read a syllabus to figure out what's going to be on that midterm - which necessarily is cumulative. They'll have homework, sure, but no one's nagging them to get it done. They'll have more reading to do than most of them have ever done for school. And they'll be expected to learn on their own. It will take some plebes "a while" to find their footing, but if they keep doing what works - EI, extra problems, study groups - and minimize those distractions and stuff that doesn't work like brute-force memorization - the ship will come about!
 
Went to an event recently where the Supe spoke. He had some observations regarding the Class of 2020. These included:
  • There have been 17 separations so far. That's a higher number than the past couple years, but apparently not cause for any undue concern. 7 are women. None are recruited 'blue-chip' athletes.
  • He indicated that the plebes are exhibiting a "high degree of spirit." The boxing smoker, apparently, was deafening with all the cheering. There may be some effort made to "suppress their spirit" a bit when the brigade reforms.
  • The class comes to USNA with the highest percentage of people with past involvement in the arts and drama.
  • He is very confident that either the Class of 2019 or 2020 will produce the first female BUD/S selectees.
 
LongAgoPlebe, CaptMJ and Hoops have nailed dead on! I can attest to seeing so many HS superstars come and get humbled by AC. Yes plebes and have a support system set in place to help struggling MIDS of all classes. Parents tell your DD/DS NOT to be ashamed to ask for help as it may be the first in their lives that they got a grade less than " A ". As a sponsor family, one of our house rules, is that when a plebe/straggler needs help, primarily, in academics, our upper classmen are to help/assist them. Over the 4 year span, we always have had at least 1 if not more have the same major as say a 3C. Since most plebes take the same coarse load, our upperclassmen who were once in those same desks/classes are their to help. As both of our parents were ex-navy, they stand steadfast in this. As they say, it slowly start teaches the upperclassmen to lookout for ones that are struggling (just like some enlisted that you WILL lead) and places a very real meaning to the saying " the team is only as strong as weakest member" Failure to not look out for a fellow MID/shipmate is unheard of from your extend family. No one, that has EVER been appointed, gone through and graduated, has done so without any help at all. There is no shame in asking for help.

I do know that, if it should happen, the loss of privileges would happen would make them spin so quick ( i.e. no longer welcome in our home, loss of access to study groups, rides to airports for flights home and some flight training, financial workshops (yes, dad puts a minimum GPA for MIDS to come), provide storage space during AC and during summers (this is a biggie) and more. As some who post here, are sponsor families like we are can attest, it is a two way street as being a sponsor family. We give them an outlet to get away from the chaos from the YARD (much needed down time) and we get to know them as almost all are from other parts of the country and other countries.

Having never been a MID at USNA (turned down), but part of a sponsor family for all of my life, take my advise with a grain of salt. We are one of the many and I do mean many, families around the area, we are here to help in any way that we can. My apologies for scrambled thoughts as Im between crew practices, as Im trying to make the freshmen team here at Yale.
 
I just hope my DD isn't assigned a sponsor family like you describe. My sponsor family was more like a home away from home (actually more like staying with a favorite aunt/uncle) - a place to relax and get away from it all. It was not a place to hear about rules and my responsibility to freshman and nor was it a place that if I struggled in some area I would be denied 'privileges' at my sponsor's home.

Everyone is entitled to run their home as they wish, but jeeeez.......

Thankfully, we have other friends in the area that will step up should the need arise.

And my sponsor was pretty senior in the Commandant's office at USAFA. His house was not USAFA.
 
I had a wonderful sponsor family that was very large at USNA. My upperclass sponsor family siblings always looked out for me and helped me along when struggling. I did the same when I became an upperclass. It's a natural
midshipmen thing to help those around you. They were fantastic. Man, if my sponsor's had dropped me or took away privledges because of my grades I would of dropped all contact immediately with them. Bad grades did not make me a bad human or something. And I didn't need sponsor's shunning me to add to my stress. Honestly my grades were my business, not their's, my parents or anyone else's. I shared them with them because I wanted to, not because I had to. My sponsor family was from a long line of USNA grads and senior retired officers. They understood what it was like to live in the halls. Unless anyone has lived in those halls, it's hard to grasp it in its entirety. Capt MJ as a Batt O probably has as up close experience to any of it anyone can get without being a Mid.

But back on point. Sponsor visits, phone calls, baseball game and so close to parents weekend! Getting exciting!
 
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NavyHoops said:
I had a wonderful sponsor family that was very large at USNA. My upperclass sponsor family siblings always looked out for me and helped me along when struggling. I did the same when I became an upperclass. It's a natural
midshipmen thing to help those around you. They were fantastic. Man, if my sponsor's had dropped me or took away privledges because of my grades I would of dropped all contact immediately with them. Bad grades did not make me a bad human or something. And I didn't need sponsor's shunning me to add to my stress. Honestly my grades were my business, not their's, my parents or anyone else's. I shared them with them because I wanted to, not because I had to. My sponsor family was from a long line of USNA grads and senior retired officers. They understood what it was like to live in the halls. Unless anyone has lived in those halls, it's hard to grasp it in its entirety. Capt MJ as a Batt O probably has as up close experience to any of it anyone can get without being a Mid.

But back on point. Sponsor visits, phone calls, baseball game and so close to parents weekend! Getting exciting!
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To echo what NavyHoops said, I go over to my sponsors because it is a relaxing atmosphere. Over there my grades and other academy BS doesn't matter. If my sponsors started setting GPA limits to coming over on the weekend, I would simply stop going over.
 
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We do not have any type of GPA requirement in order to come over to our house. The GPA, is for my dad teaching MIDS how to trade (he manages a hedge fund). My parents are just like other parents regarding GPA. Do your best and if you need ei, then go. As most know, near the beginning of of 2C AC, mids are afforded the right to get a "career starter loan". I think last year's amount was around $32k. He won't allow a mid with a 2.0 or lower into any of his classes, as he feels that their priority is to get above 2.0.

This is his way of giving back, pay it forward or what ever you want to call it. I was not specifically clear in my last post as to the GPA. Whether 1C graduates and does the 5 and dive or stay in longer, they will be successful in what ever they choose and also have a solid foundation to be financial successful as well.
 
md403 said:
We do not have any type of GPA requirement in order to come over to our house. The GPA, is for my dad teaching MIDS how to trade (he manages a hedge fund). My parents are just like other parents regarding GPA. Do your best and if you need ei, then go. As most know, near the beginning of of 2C AC, mids are afforded the right to get a "career starter loan". I think last year's amount was around $32k. He won't allow a mid with a 2.0 or lower into any of his classes, as he feels that their priority is to get above 2.0.

This is his way of giving back, pay it forward or what ever you want to call it. I was not specifically clear in my last post as to the GPA. Whether 1C graduates and does the 5 and dive or stay in longer, they will be successful in what ever they choose and also have a solid foundation to be financial successful as well.
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You very clearly said that your family puts restrictions on Mids that your family sponsors and failure to comply with that results in some type of punishment or privilege being taken away.

md403 said:
I do know that, if it should happen, the loss of privileges would happen would make them spin so quick ( i.e. no longer welcome in our home, loss of access to study groups, rides to airports for flights home and some flight training, financial workshops (yes, dad puts a minimum GPA for MIDS to come), provide storage space during AC and during summers (this is a biggie) and more.
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I get that normal customs and courtesies should be followed as the Mids are a guest in your home. However, the environment you have described is not what I would want in a sponsor family and I pray my daughter does not end up in such an environment.
 
Sponsor families come in all flavors, from the frat house no rules approach (sure, wear civvies, drink beer) to homes where heavy chores and baby-sitting are expected and there are plenty of rules.

Sponsor families are vetted for basic background (rule out sex offenders, etc.) and given annual training on the program, what's expected of them, general guidelines on what plebes can or cannot do.

The program is completely voluntary on both sides, and is unofficial after plebe year. Plebes are welcome to switch sponsors by going to the sponsor coordinator. Many simply drift away and are adopted where they have a better fit. Many do. If mids continue to go to a sponsor's house, regardless of how structured, they must have found a fit they like and want to continue.

We have sponsored since 1996, with a USNA grad captain and a former BattO captain in the house. We have some basic household guidelines - bring up your used sheets and towels, no devices at the dinner table because we are going to have a wardroom atmosphere, etc. We tell them we know MidRegs and respect USNA guidelines, and at our house, they will always be safe from misconduct issues. We won't enforce them, just expect they will respect them in our home. If they want to do things out of regs, they can push the envelope elsewhere, and we are always happy to see them. They do, and come back. Many times they tell us what they have done, and how they scared themselves silly. It would be professionally embarrassing for us to be mentioned in a misconduct case where we knowingly allowed something to occur in our home. They know they can talk about absolutely anything with us in confidence. We are not their parents, but among their first Navy mentors. We often sit at the dinner table for 3 hours, in gales of laughter, at sea stories or "Tales from the Hall." Upperclass help plebes and offer insights (gouge) on everything from profs to dealing with plebe life.

We welcome them anytime, and tell them we trust them to be managing their priorities at school and on liberty. We have a room set up as a quiet room, where they can go to study if they need to. We have seen them learn some painful lessons in time management, recover and excel.

We have had our share of mids drift away from us, for various reasons. Sometimes they make a best friend and just attach themselves to that sponsor. Sometimes they are not compatible with our sponsor approach. We had a 3/c, in civilian clothes, drive over to the house with 3 classmates (3/c don't rate civvies or cars). My husband met them at the door and said with other mids in the house, he couldn't appear to be endorsing their choice, though he would be glad to pick them up in uniform and bring them to the house. We never saw him again, but heard he was separated for misconduct as 2/c.
We have been to 5 weddings, 3 christenings, and one change of command this year, for the extended alumni family. We get phone calls, texts, emails, FB updates, as well as visits for reunions and weddings. Four have returned for duty at USNA. Several have rotated through DC, and come over to Naptown to take us out or join in at the dinner table. Now, that is great to watch, a SWO destroyer XO sponsor daughter talking with sponsor mid sisters and brothers. My brother-in-law, also a retired Navy captain and a very funny man, is popular with the mids too, and those dinner tables are raucous. Parents who occasionally join us are amazed at the conversation, the lack of devices and the organized bedlam in the kitchen as all the mids join in dinner clean-up.

FYI, plebes can wear reg PE gear at sponsor home. We have a collection dating back to the class of 2000, left behind by generations of mids, all stenciled with their mid number. Plebes come over in uniform, and have fun rooting out vintage blue rims, some with names still on the front from when they used to do that. Youngsters (3/c) head for the Navy-related drawer, delighting in detailer tees from years past, Army-Navy shirts or old company t-shirts.

There are also times of near silence, as mids nap with dogs, work quietly on laptops, do problems at the kitchen bar, do group study in the dining room.

My DH even filled in as a date at 2/c Ring Dance, when sponsor daughter's date found himself on restriction for a conduct offense. He even got to dip his class ring again in the waters of the Seven Seas.

The mids - and alumni - know we aren't fazed by anything they can tell us, no matter how bad or their role in it. We ask questions designed to lead them to working through the problem on their own.

It is one of the most rewarding things we do, and we have been repaid a hundred thousand fold for those airport trips, huge food outlays and listening ears. It's a priceless part of our lives.

All that said, sponsors as a whole give generously of their time and resources to mids, in a variety of styles. The mids are absolutely free to walk away from a sponsor where the fit doesn't feel right for them.
 
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I know this thread has gone off the rails in terms of the original subject, but I'm really enjoying the discussion about sponsor families, since my Plebe will meet his just before our last phone call Sunday!
 
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