OG??
Old grad or old grouch??
Some day the OP and other mids will be leaders in the Fleet. You will do things and make decisions that the men and women you lead don't like/don't agree with. It's called leadership, not "friendship" for a reason.
This! ...That person may be right or wrong, but leadership, for all its glory, can be a b!tch.
OG??
Old grad or old grouch??
I haven't seen many complaints about the Dant on the plebe FB page, but keep in mind, some of "these people" have had a Mid at USNA consecutively for the past decade, and some of "these people" are USNA grads, so they might actually have a good read on past and current leadership. Also, some of "these people" are on this forum, just sayin...Things change, for better or worse. I get a kick on the plebe parent FB page. Parents are quick to complain about the Dant and how he has changed things. These peoples' kids are plebes. They don't know any better. They have nothing to compare it to.
For those with 100+ demerits, why would you want to glorify that 'achievement'? I can understand the banning of wearing the sweaters, tradition or not.
I was referring to the plebes not knowing any better.I haven't seen many complaints about the Dant on the plebe FB page, but keep in mind, some of "these people" have had a Mid at USNA consecutively for the past decade, and some of "these people" are USNA grads, so they might actually have a good read on past and current leadership. Also, some of "these people" are on this forum, just sayin...
A good friend (best man at my wedding) was a Black N "winner" (never heard of Black N Sweaters in the 70's) and had a pretty good career and made flag. As a one star he found himself in a meeting with a then four star who had been the Conduct Officer who actually "fried" him and gave him the Class A/Black N.It's probably hard to understand if you haven't been one of the inmates, but the Black N is something of a badge of honor to those that earned it. (By the way, I think the criteria is 100+ demerits and not getting kicked out). These are the guys/girls who have stretched the limits of conduct as far as they could. As I said before, there is usually a good story behind it, but there is a lot of pain --including many days/months on restriction, mustering several times every day for inspection by the OOW. Those that are serving long terms kind of grow a bound, and getting through it is something of an accomplishment. I think that bond , and the glorification grows as time passes (I hear alot of the stories at Reunions). There was a post above about people on conduct probation getting fried for wearing a sweater...that's probably not good headwork (kinda like the kid getting spanked by their parent and telling them that it didn't hurt !)
For the record, I was not a member of the club ....I can count the times I got Fried on one hand (all as a Plebe), but did get to experience Restriction for a few days before the 1981 Army Navy game (a great story a Rumble in the back shaft with our First Class when I was a plebe). However, I did get to observe up close when my Roomate got a Class A for going out to College Park late First class year -- I don't recall whether he actually earned the Black N, but it was close. Oh, and yeah... I do have some experience about getting spanked and telling my dad it didn't hurt !
You specifically said “parents are quick to complain about the Dant...” I was simply pointing out that there is a good size group of legacy parents and grad parents on that page, so just because their plebes may not know better, the parents might. But honestly this topic has rarely come up.I was referring to the plebes not knowing any better.
Just sayin...
Thanks for all the replies, it’s nice to hear the OG’s pass on some good gouge. A lot of anger stems from the fact that they were told they could wear it by the brigade XO who said they had Dant staff approval. Most of them are going to get very low level minor offenses for it but those on LOI for conduct probation may go straight to the Dant for a separation board. They are also keeping any adjudications from it out of the hands of the company officers, I think because most would probably dismiss it.
You can't openly flaunt MIDREGs and also believe conduct action is unreasonable.
When the Dant tells you to not to do something, and you do it, what do you expect will happen?
@Old Navy BGO is spot on - unless you've been there, it would seem quite odd. There is a degree of rebellion amongst the cadets and mids against the establishment we fought so hard to join. While your HS friends are attending civilian colleges with almost no rules, you are held to a much higher behavioral standard and new laws like UCMJ, and General Officers telling you that you cannot go off campus on a school night or that your sheet must measure 4" at the cuff. The expectations are ridiculously high, and it creates an enormous amount of pressure and frustration for the student. As a result, there is a natural desire to rebel. Those who push the envelope and ride the line are (at times) considered heros amongst their peers for taking action in ways everyone wanted to, but few had the guts to risk. Almost anything you do could be a disenrollable offense - and that in and of itself adds pressure.For those with 100+ demerits, why would you want to glorify that 'achievement'? I can understand the banning of wearing the sweaters, tradition or not.
The expectations are ridiculously high, and it creates an enormous amount of pressure and frustration for the student. As a result, there is a natural desire to rebel. Those who push the envelope and ride the line are (at times) considered heros amongst their peers for taking action in ways everyone wanted to, but few had the guts to risk.
As a side note, if this is so frowned upon (I am not a USNA grad) - why then are the stories behind Black N recipients posted on what I believe to be an official USNA site????
Who's morale is being killed? Those that can't stay out of serious trouble or those that never get into serious trouble. I hear the tendency now is to award 99 demerits and deny the offender the Black N.Every year at Halloween we have a good time. There’s some tasty food in King Hall for once and a pretty fun costume experience. It’s also the one time when members of the Black N come out in force and we get to see if we know anyone, the rest of the year it’s supposed to be hush hush. There is a midregs thing that says we can’t wear black sweaters with a Gold N which targets the sweater but this is like the unofficial one night exception going back for many years. It’s literal tradition and this decision by the current command staff is one in a long list that is just morale killing.