West Point Cheating Scandal

The comment from Col Weathers is absolutely ridiculous. West Point's chief of staff, said in an interview Monday that he was "disappointed" in the cadets for cheating, but he did not consider the incident a serious breach of the code. It would not have occurred if the cadets had taken the exam on campus, he said.

So in other words the honor code only exists when you are being watched! What a load of BS!
 
Also ridiculous:
The current cheating incident is considerably less serious, said Jeffery Peterson, senior advisor, Character Integration Advisory Group which reports to the superintendent and a retired colonel.

"They're early in their developmental process," Peterson said. "And so on occasion, these incidents happen, but we have a system in place to deal with them when they do."
 
Army Col. Mark Weathers, West Point's chief of staff, said in an interview Monday that he was "disappointed" in the cadets for cheating, but he did not consider the incident a serious breach of the code.
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Wow, this guy needs to be removed from the US Army with a moral code like that.

It's called integrity. You either have it or you don't.
 
On another thread, I read about the ethics of cheating prior to attending, after receiving a nom. Interesting parallels here.

I’m also shaking my head at the same comments already listed. And also wondering why there are 3 different levels of discipline. Although it’s not my business...but it’s in the article.

I don’t get cheaters. It’s rude. It’s risky. And it’s wrong.
 
When I was in school, the honor code was absolute. The officers would say, 'if we can't trust you with the little things, how can we trust you with the bigger things.' "You will be leading men in combat, in charge of millions in equipment, trusted with national secrets". Even if these cadets are not expelled, this will be a black spot on their record.
 
I admit I struggle with the “honor rehab” or remediation concept, and I have since I first encountered it at USNA. If an 18 year old enlisted sailor gundecks a log (doesn’t do the work, fakes the entries), lies, cheats, steals, or has other honor-related-type misconduct, they are hammered at Captain’s Mast (Article 15), and often get separated. They are hammered no matter what. I struggled with how discussions and mentoring with a senior officer would somehow magically heal up the moral wound. The midshipmen I knew who violated the code knew what they were doing, they were adults in the eyes of the military and were given the rights and benefits of active duty members, they wrote fancy words about being held to higher standards in their admissions essays, they took oaths, no one forced them at gunpoint to cheat, they willingly chose to cheat. They should be at a “developmental stage” to understand they are doing wrong and have the moral backbone to resist the “everyone is doing it” peer pressure. I don’t want them at my six, my three/nine or follow them at my 12 - I have lost trust.

Argh. As you can see, I still struggle with this. When I was at OCS, someone cheated on a Nav exam. They were gone the next day, TAD over at the Naval Station awaiting separation. DH had a two-star boss who cheated on his NATOPS exam; he was relieved of duty within 24 hours, retired in disgrace at a lower rank. No honor remediation programs.

Rant concluded. I trust USMA to address the situation. I trust parents to deliver appropriate direct and unmistakable feedback.
 
I’ve been thinking more about this. Imo, a single person cheating on an exam has a different flavor than a group of 77 conspiring to do so....yuck. Blech 🤢 . The planning and forethought. VS a single person solving their own problem. Not saying it’s OK, but a group colluding and conspiring to do this has different undertones to me.

I completely agree with @Capt MJ.
 
The whole thing, without any further details, is a mess. The comments about this happening because they were virtual is a terrible response. Although I do not know the specific details, integrity is about doing what is right when no one is watching. Also the comment about this not being a serious breach (as mentioned by someone above) absolutely made me re-read that a half dozen times. I mean it’s USMA’s tag line yet it’s not serious? Well why should cadets take it seriously if the leadership doesn’t? In one moment it’s a national security issue (which it’s not - a little blown out of proportion in my opinion) and the next it’s like a shrug emoji. It doesn’t make sense. I know the media can provide us one sentence out of a paragraph and skew things, but the military has an entire branch, Public Affairs, to provide comments and spoon feed leadership on how to comment on these types of things. The Col need remedial training with their PAO team.

I can’t speak to this case or the intricacies of how USMA handles honor cases, but often times those who are accused and ‘turn themselves in’ or self report will receive a lesser punishment then those who do not. Also I saw there was a 3/C mentioned. They could hold them to a higher standard then the 4/C. Even a prepster or prior enlisted could be. They have lived this world longer than others and ‘know better’ (then again all cadets do). Not saying that this is what happened here, but there are many factors when considering outcomes. The bar is higher each year as one progresses at a SA.

Each service academy has had their share of these kinds of stories, USNA included. Be curious what the details are here.
 
Not in my Army. They all need to go.

We are trusting these young men and women with the sons and daughters of our nation. My son is a high school senior. The last thing I want to worry about is whether or not his leaders can be trusted.

LTG Williams - this is at your level. Please make the correct decision here.
 
The offending Cadets disgraced themselves. Leadership at the Academy seems to be disgracing USMA with the response. I suspect that many and hopefully most Cadets believe USMA is compromising core principles, and that the approach should have been far less lenient.

There are many mistakes that can be forgiven. Lying, cheating, and stealing not so much.

West Point has had an entire term to get this right. It has not said anything that offers an excuse for the failure to do that.
 
"West Point's chief of staff, said in an interview Monday that he was "disappointed" in the cadets for cheating, but he did not consider the incident a serious breach of the code. It would not have occurred if the cadets had taken the exam on campus, he said."

Oh...I am..."Gee your honor, my client would NEVER have robbed that bank if there were armed guards watching every step...but since nobody was there...I mean...you can't really blame him/her, can you?"

DO NOT GET ME STARTED!!!

Too late. They should ALL, to an individual, face an honor board and if found guilty without mitigating circumstance (and online learning is not a mitigating factor) they should be expelled. Yes, I'm VERY hard core. I have sat as a court martial board member for a teenage airman that "made a mistake." On the outside, it's a slap on the wrist, if; In the service, it's court martial. As a commander, I've had young men and women standing in front of me...their future in my hands...they (insert offense: lied, cheated, missed a formation/movement/training, etc...) and the rules are very clear. These cadets knew the honor code, they knew the rules, the standards to which they swore an oath to live by and uphold. To work together to become that which we admire and aspire toward, and to not tolerate less.

And now this and a senior officer says "I'm disappointed but it's not a serious breach..."

No...this is wholly unacceptable.

Steve
 
justdoit19 said:
I’ve been thinking more about this. Imo, a single person cheating on an exam has a different flavor than a group of 77 conspiring to do so....yuck. Blech 🤢 . The planning and forethought. VS a single person solving their own problem. Not saying it’s OK, but a group colluding and conspiring to do this has different undertones to me.

I completely agree with @Capt MJ.
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As of this writing there are 5 likes who are apparently more tuned in than I. This is an anonymous forum. What are those undertones?

Yes, there is a difference between one person shoplifting and a mob looting a store. I get that. So what? Everything begins with the individual.

My sons are not choirboys, nor was I. I remember DS #1, who was not one of the “cool” kids in elementary school, told me that a couple of the “cool” kids were stealing candy at the neighborhood grocery store. He had no frame of reference. I told him that the smarter the kid, the more likely he/she will get away with it. Each time they steal they will be more confident they’ll get away with. Each close call will make them even “smarter”. The longer they get away with it the more severe the consequences. As they got older it became evident that the consequences extended to friends, family members, coworkers, spouses and so on.
 
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flieger83 said:
"West Point's chief of staff, said in an interview Monday that he was "disappointed" in the cadets for cheating, but he did not consider the incident a serious breach of the code. It would not have occurred if the cadets had taken the exam on campus, he said."

Oh...I am..."Gee your honor, my client would NEVER have robbed that bank if there were armed guards watching every step...but since nobody was there...I mean...you can't really blame him/her, can you?"

DO NOT GET ME STARTED!!!

Too late. They should ALL, to an individual, face an honor board and if found guilty without mitigating circumstance (and online learning is not a mitigating factor) they should be expelled. Yes, I'm VERY hard core. I have sat as a court martial board member for a teenage airman that "made a mistake." On the outside, it's a slap on the wrist, if; In the service, it's court martial. As a commander, I've had young men and women standing in front of me...their future in my hands...they (insert offense: lied, cheated, missed a formation/movement/training, etc...) and the rules are very clear. These cadets knew the honor code, they knew the rules, the standards to which they swore an oath to live by and uphold. To work together to become that which we admire and aspire toward, and to not tolerate less.

And now this and a senior officer says "I'm disappointed but it's not a serious breach..."

No...this is wholly unacceptable.

Steve
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Yes that comment really pissed me off!
 
I am a newbie to all of this. And have of course no inside details. But as a newbie I was dumbstruck at the leadership responses quoted in the article.
How does one expect cadets to have honor when leadership denigrates it?
 
To add balance, I have always been fond of saying “Good mids (cadets) can do bad things.” There are no doubt many fine cadets among that group who are otherwise good people, but they failed themselves with their choices. There will be consequences that spread outward in concentric rings. People will know. Names will get out. They will be remembered. Can you imagine telling your parents? Facing your little brother or sister who adores you and wants to follow you to WP? Upperclass who are long gone and commissioned will see orders on someone new coming to the unit several years later, and say “Oh, yeah, he/she was in my company at USMA, two years behind me, decent guy/gal, but was in that big 2020 cheating scandal.”
 
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