Russia - Ukraine

Also, still would love the m and m addition to kettle corn. Alas I am allergic to all nuts. Leaning toward a good quality kettle corn with dark Chocolate and some caramel and sea salt. Just no anaphylactic shock inducing additions.
 
This is getting serious! Donetsk, Ukraine>
 

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Is it just me? And maybe it is. But my gut says we have been led to view “Russia Russia Russia “ as the enemy to our democracy and future tranquility for a decade (recent modern history). And yet while all of that misdirection was occurring, China (the other real superpower) beefed up its military with help from tech theft and other inside methods. While we were pretending not to care they became a competitor militarily. And we are pretending not to care now while they set their sites on Taiwan.
maybe it’s the nitrates in the bacon I had on my Thursday tacos tonight.
russia.jpg
 
Is it just me? And maybe it is. But my gut says we have been led to view “Russia Russia Russia “ as the enemy to our democracy and future tranquility for a decade (recent modern history). And yet while all of that misdirection was occurring, China (the other real superpower) beefed up its military with help from tech theft and other inside methods. While we were pretending not to care they became a competitor militarily. And we are pretending not to care now while they set their sites on Taiwan.
maybe it’s the nitrates in the bacon I had on my Thursday tacos tonight.
Unfortunately, Russia does not have the economic leverage that China has. Many countries are afraid to speak up against China because of sanctions that could hurt their economy. This allows China to move up the ladder. It's easy for the United States to speak out against North Korea, Iran, and Russia when military action is being conducted in their regions because they do not possess the economic leverage that China has. When it comes to China, you do not hear much about that in the news. Despite all the exercises happening in the Taiwan Strait and the South China Sea.
 
I never said they were identical situations but I still doubt if Chinese forces were to invade Taiwan that the US would either help take back the island or help Taiwanese forces repel Chinese forces. I agree with everything you are saying and it is probably more a chicken game as both China and the US economy are intertwined. .
I understand your point, I can see why you would say that. I still believe and am very confident that in that scenario, the US and most likely Japan would be involved. Just think about it, the 30,000 troops in Okinawa which isn't to far from Taiwan, there is no way they would just sit by idly if China attacked. Of course, if Taiwan had already fallen to China, I doubt the US would take the island back. However, that scenario is unlikely. China would have to capture Taiwan lightning fast with a massive invasion. No way they could do that in a few days and by that time, Taiwan and the United States would be prepping for an invasion. An invasion of Taiwan won't be easy for China, a well prepared Taiwan with assistance from the United States can very likely repel an invasion.
 
This just in from the Deep State:

4/15/21
WSJ Editorial

China poses the greatest threat to U.S. national security, but that doesn’t mean other adversaries should get a pass. Credit then to President Biden for imposing costs on Russia over a wide range of malfeasance.

Sanctions are often a half-measure, but some of the retaliatory actions announced by the Biden Administration Thursday will have serious consequences. Most important is a ban on American financial institutions purchasing new bonds from the Russian finance ministry, central bank or sovereign-wealth fund after June 14. The executive order also allows the U.S. government to sanction any part of the Russian economy, which will make U.S. firms think twice about doing business in Russia. The weakness of the plan is that U.S. traders will still be able to access Russian debt in secondary bond markets.

Russia summoned the U.S. Ambassador to Moscow, and a foreign ministry spokeswoman warned, “Washington must realize that the degradation of bilateral relations will have to be paid for. The responsibility for what is happening lies entirely with the United States.” This is a predictable tactic: Attack the U.S.—then blame the victim for retaliating.

In reality this is well-deserved and long overdue. The White House said the new sanctions are a response to Russia’s election interference, cyber espionage, transnational corruption, targeting dissidents abroad, and violation of other countries’ sovereignty.




The U.S. also announced the expulsion of 10 Russian diplomats—a polite way of saying spies. Dozens of entities, individuals and companies were sanctioned over their election interference and cyber attacks. The Administration formally blamed Russia’s Foreign Intelligence Service for the SolarWinds hack of U.S. government and corporate computer systems and has hinted that other actions were taken privately.

The European Union and NATO issued statements expressing solidarity with the U.S., but the Continent could be doing more. Mr. Biden opposes the Nord Stream 2 gas pipeline between Russia and Germany but hasn’t convinced Berlin to abandon the project. Deepening European dependence on Russian energy was always a bad idea, but Vladimir Putin’s recent behavior makes Berlin’s intransigence hard to explain.
Mr. Biden said in remarks Thursday evening that he’s opposed Nord Stream 2 “for a long time,” as President Trump also did, and that the issue remains “in play.”

Russian opposition leader Alexei Navalny, who was arrested on trumped-up charges upon his return to Russia in January, has seen his health deteriorate in a Russian penal colony. Meantime, Russia has deployed tens of thousands of troops and heavy weapons near Ukraine, and its intentions remain unclear.

On a Tuesday call with Mr. Putin, the President suggested a summit meeting in a third country in the coming months. The Kremlin said the sanctions could blow up Mr. Biden’s offer, but don’t count on it. As Russia’s economy stumbles along, Mr. Putin needs a summit more than Washington does. Mr. Biden shouldn’t accept a meeting absent a change of behavior from his Russian counterpart.
The world would be a safer place if Washington and Moscow got along.

A natural place to start would be cooperation against Islamic extremism or Chinese adventurism. But getting to that point will require Russia to act like a responsible country.
 
This just in from the Deep State:

4/15/21
WSJ Editorial

China poses the greatest threat to U.S. national security, but that doesn’t mean other adversaries should get a pass. Credit then to President Biden for imposing costs on Russia over a wide range of malfeasance.

Sanctions are often a half-measure, but some of the retaliatory actions announced by the Biden Administration Thursday will have serious consequences. Most important is a ban on American financial institutions purchasing new bonds from the Russian finance ministry, central bank or sovereign-wealth fund after June 14. The executive order also allows the U.S. government to sanction any part of the Russian economy, which will make U.S. firms think twice about doing business in Russia. The weakness of the plan is that U.S. traders will still be able to access Russian debt in secondary bond markets.

Russia summoned the U.S. Ambassador to Moscow, and a foreign ministry spokeswoman warned, “Washington must realize that the degradation of bilateral relations will have to be paid for. The responsibility for what is happening lies entirely with the United States.” This is a predictable tactic: Attack the U.S.—then blame the victim for retaliating.

In reality this is well-deserved and long overdue. The White House said the new sanctions are a response to Russia’s election interference, cyber espionage, transnational corruption, targeting dissidents abroad, and violation of other countries’ sovereignty.




The U.S. also announced the expulsion of 10 Russian diplomats—a polite way of saying spies. Dozens of entities, individuals and companies were sanctioned over their election interference and cyber attacks. The Administration formally blamed Russia’s Foreign Intelligence Service for the SolarWinds hack of U.S. government and corporate computer systems and has hinted that other actions were taken privately.

The European Union and NATO issued statements expressing solidarity with the U.S., but the Continent could be doing more. Mr. Biden opposes the Nord Stream 2 gas pipeline between Russia and Germany but hasn’t convinced Berlin to abandon the project. Deepening European dependence on Russian energy was always a bad idea, but Vladimir Putin’s recent behavior makes Berlin’s intransigence hard to explain.
Mr. Biden said in remarks Thursday evening that he’s opposed Nord Stream 2 “for a long time,” as President Trump also did, and that the issue remains “in play.”

Russian opposition leader Alexei Navalny, who was arrested on trumped-up charges upon his return to Russia in January, has seen his health deteriorate in a Russian penal colony. Meantime, Russia has deployed tens of thousands of troops and heavy weapons near Ukraine, and its intentions remain unclear.

On a Tuesday call with Mr. Putin, the President suggested a summit meeting in a third country in the coming months. The Kremlin said the sanctions could blow up Mr. Biden’s offer, but don’t count on it. As Russia’s economy stumbles along, Mr. Putin needs a summit more than Washington does. Mr. Biden shouldn’t accept a meeting absent a change of behavior from his Russian counterpart.
The world would be a safer place if Washington and Moscow got along.

A natural place to start would be cooperation against Islamic extremism or Chinese adventurism. But getting to that point will require Russia to act like a responsible country.
Great. Now do China.
 
Is it just me? And maybe it is. But my gut says we have been led to view “Russia Russia Russia “ as the enemy to our democracy and future tranquility for a decade (recent modern history).
If you say that to someone from Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania or Poland--all of whom are NATO allies, border Russia, spend a greater % of GDP on Defense than Germany and who all contributed troops to US military adventures--you will confirm their preconceived notion that Americans are out of touch.

This entire thread is embarrassing.
 
If you say that to someone from Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania or Poland--all of whom are NATO allies, border Russia, spend a greater % of GDP on Defense than Germany and who all contributed troops to US military adventures--you will confirm their preconceived notion that Americans are out of touch.

This entire thread is embarrassing.
Should America spend money to defend Germany from Russia, when Germany and Russia have oil and gas deals in place?
 
If you say that to someone from Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania or Poland--all of whom are NATO allies, border Russia, spend a greater % of GDP on Defense than Germany and who all contributed troops to US military adventures--you will confirm their preconceived notion that Americans are out of touch.

This entire thread is embarrassing.
I don't think anyone here is saying Russia should get a pass. There is no doubt that Russia still poses a threat to the region but the point is more why nobody really seems to mention China as a greater threat or why their actions don't get more coverage on the media. Last time I checked, Russia isn't the one flying jets into Taiwan's airspace every other day (I don't think they are flying into Poland or Lativa's airspace everyday either), COVID-19 didn't come from Russia (the virus that devastated the world and our economy), or widespread espionage. Besides, we have a heavy troop presence in Europe and NATO, I honestly don't think Russia would have the guts to take on all of that. China on the other hand however, I don't know. Seems like they aren't afraid of flying into Taiwan's airspace nor harassing our partners in the South China Sea where 1/3 of maritime trade passes through every year.

When Admiral Philip Davidson mentioned he was worried China could take Taiwan in next six years, that is something that I would be more worried about. Not some news article that mentions Russia saber rattling. Not to say Russia does not pose a threat, we still need to keep an eye on them, but really the focus on China should be greater than what it is currently.


"This entire thread is embarrassing"

Could you explain a bit more?
 
If you say that to someone from Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania or Poland--all of whom are NATO allies, border Russia, spend a greater % of GDP on Defense than Germany and who all contributed troops to US military adventures--you will confirm their preconceived notion that Americans are out of touch.

This entire thread is embarrassing.
I didn't state that we should let Russia roll over our allies or any of the countries you mentioned. Citizens in those countries should and do consider Russia a threat. I was speaking in general about our overall lack of focus on China.

No, I don't possess a PhD in Eastern European history, but I don't live under a rock.

I would think there is always something to be learned from polite discourse and conversation.
 
Last time I checked, Russia isn't the one flying jets into Taiwan's airspace every other day (I don't think they are flying into Poland or Lativa's airspace everyday either), COVID-19 didn't come from Russia (the virus that devastated the world and our economy), or widespread espionage.
Not too sure about that last point...
 
"This entire thread is embarrassing"

Could you explain a bit more?
I would think there is always something to be learned from polite discourse and conversation.
I am not going to point out individual posts or posters. So I will make a few points and bow out.

1) The region was a part of my education, is a part of my marriage and is a part of my DS's military career. So maybe it's a little close and I've paid closer attention than most for the past 45 years. I still don't understand much.

2) For the past 5 years there have been attempts to portray Russia as more benign than the "Deep State" suggests--either in absolute terms or in comparison to China. IMHO, neither is benign and they are aiming for the soft underbelly of our regional and political alliances which have weakened over the past 5 years.

3)This entire conversation revolves around troops, tanks, planes and ships. Three pages and hardly any mention of cyber and unconventional warfare. Ft. Meade and Ft. Gordon are probably more actively engaged today than Ft. Hood or Ft. Benning or Twenty-nine Palms.

4)As far as dying for _________, one of the younger, yet brightest posters with a very successful military career in a very competitive branch told me in a PM, "I didn't know what I signed up for." Neither did my DS and he doesn't think about dying.
 
When you figure it out, let us know.
I'll answer that for you, your right Russia is responsible for widespread espionage (been that way for a while). In the past few years however , China has really taken over the Espionage. Not saying that Russia isn't doing Espionage anymore just not as rampant as China is. A couple days ago the FBI Director said the FBI opens a case every ten hours that relates back to China, most of these cases are related to Espionage, theft of IP, and hacking. Many of these Espionage cases are also linked to

-PLA (Chinese Military) members coming in under the guise of International Students and participating in research projects in top universities.
-Huawei and TikTok which are linked to the Chinese government have also contributed to the Espionage as well. These two companies have a major influence around the world.

With the two points I mentioned above, it is easier for China to conduct espionage in the United States and Europe. Russia does not have many International students here in the United States compared to China. Not saying all International students are spies but some are. Russia doesn't own many major tech companies that have a base or influence here in the United States. With China's growing economy and influence around the world, espionage will get easier for them. As I mentioned earlier, the media is more keen to criticizing Russia then China, because well they do not want lose viewers or have sanctions against them. That is why you won't hear much about China.


 
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