Community college, or 4-year university?

Hello, I am currently a senior in high school who did not apply for the class of 2027 for reasons unimportant to this post's question. I am currently planning on applying for the USNA & USAFA for the class of 2028, and I need to decide where I am going to go to college. There are two main routes that I can take: attending my local community college, or attending a 4-year university. There are pros and cons to both options, but I am not sure which one would be best for my situation. Here is a run down.

Attending My Local Community College

Pros:

• Close to home (Largest upside of this is that during the summer/fall, I will be a teacher/instructor in my high school's marching band program. Living close to home would allow my transit to the school to be simple).
• Cheap (the 4-year university I am looking into is an hour and a half away from home. This means I would have to pay for a dorm or place to live, on top of all of the costs of attending a 4-year university).

Cons:

• After surfing this forum, it seems that it looks better to attend a university rather than a community college. I do not understand why, so if someone could help explain, that would be awesome.
• At my community college, only AFROTC is offered at a nearby university to students attending the community college. I love both the Air Force and Navy, but Navy would be my first pick. If I did not get accepted into USNA, that may mean I would stay in AFROTC, which is not what entirely what I want to do. At the 4-year university, they offer NROTC.

Attending a 4-Year University

Pros:

• Looks better on application (at least from what I've heard on these forums, correct me if I am wrong).
• Offers NROTC (I am applying for both USAFA & USNA, but serving in the Navy is what I want to do the most).

Cons:

• Much more expensive than community college (I am not in the financial situation to afford university out of my own pocket, so scholarships and (hopefully not) loans may have to help).
• Far from home (It would be a long commute to my high school to teach the marching band program, which of course would be worth it, but not easy).

In the military, I want to serve as a pilot or NFO / CSO. If I attend my community college in the fall, I would be able to afford private pilot training and be able to obtain my license before the end of the school year. At a 4-year university, this would not be possible do to the financial situation.

What would be my best option? Attend community college and stay near home and have enough money to get a pilot's license (but be in AFROTC), or attend a 4-year university, where it would presumably look better on my USNA application and I can be apart of their NROTC program (but be far from home and unable to get my PPL)?

Alongside USAFA & USNA, I will be applying for NROTC & AFROTC scholarships. Here, I have a question. If I attended the community college and was in their AFROTC program, could I apply for an NROTC scholarship and, if I receieved one, could attend a school off of an NROTC scholarship as a sophomore the following year? If this is the case, it may be best for me to stay at community college, as I would be able to still serve in the navy if I am offered an appointment to USNA or an NROTC scholarship.

Thank you for your help.

I don't have all of the answers to your questions.
However, go to Community College. keep your grades up, stay in great physical condition, stay out of debt, & you'll do fine.
As I understand it, you can choose only one ROTC program to enroll.
The Navy has "dual processing" at which you may wish to look.
Good luck!

Academy admissions don’t seem to rate where you attend school. They care what you do with that education. SA attendees are not all Ivey league kids. Despite what you may hear. Plenty of average Joe and Jill kids out there who do the work and earn their spot.

Specifically speaking to the PPL, most future aviators don’t have it. It isn’t likely going to be a factor. I would hazard a guess that 95% of aviation selectees don’t have a PPL.

Manage your academics, keep your head up, develop mentor relationships and seek counsel on life, career, finances, etc. If your are a good fit for aviation and have done the work, you may be selected.

Take a plebe like schedule. Excel. Establish relationships with mentors and instructors. Seek leadership positions.

Going into massive debt isn’t wise. For anyone.

Make a plan, execute it. Talk to admissions and seek counsel. Reach out to your BGO.

I recently mentored a candidate who took a year off of the application cycle. He acknowledged his shortcomings, took his admission’s advice seriously and put his head down. He had a plan, executed it, was able to convey it in interviews and essays- he secured an appointment. He did the work and improved his application. He demonstrated perseverance and a desire to serve as a servant leader.

Not gonna lie, when he messaged me about his appointment I needed Kleenex. Good stuff.

As mentioned above, I believe the key is WHAT classes you take. Try to mimic what your plebe schedule would be. That means take a full schedule including Calculus, Chemistry, English, Cyber, etc... Here are the Course Requirements for a Plebe: https://www.usna.edu/Academics/Majors-and-Courses/Course-Requirements-Plebe.php
Some people look at community college as easier than a 4-year university, but if you pick the right classes and excel, that will stand out. In the meantime, I think being an instructor for the high school band will show great leadership, and I think earning your pilot's license at the same time will show time management and commitment.
However, I honestly don't know much about the ROTC process, so it is worth more investigation on your part.

OP:

1. Find and reach out to your BGO (your HS should have an assigned BGO)-he/she should be able to give you more specific advice
2. Community college can be fine, IF, you take those Plebe similar courses and do well (really A's are best)
3. Typically 30%+ of USNA appointees have completed one or more years of college
4. Be involved in ECAs, such as Band and show leadership aptitude. Consider community/civic orgs too.
5. CFA: Don't underestimate the time it will take to prepare do well on the CFA-make a plan and start now
6. As you are doing, develop plans B, C and D also
7. Once this application cycle slows down, you can reach out to USNA Admissions and ask for advice (use widget on USNA site)

Good luck

Reference getting youR PPL, I highly recommend doing this.
1. You will find out if Aviation is for you. Some find they don’t like it, some fall in love with it.
2. The cursory FAA Class 3 medical might find issues that can be addressed or will DQ you from flying.
3. Getting a PPL can help you on the path to being a pilot. More knowledge is not a bad thing.
4. There is a block in the SA application about having a pilot certificate. I’m not sure how much weight it carriers, but it carriers some weight,

Sage posts above. I'll just add my recommendation as if you were one of my children.

Go to the community college, join AFROTC as a cross-town college programmer. Avoid debt aggressively. Choose courses wisely including using ratemyprofessor and play to your strengths, and be resolved to absolutely get a 4.0 your first 2 semesters. Be open about your goal of serving either through AFROTC or through a SA with your AFROTC detachment chain of command. Seek a foundational strength in Calc and Calc-based physics if you are seeking a navy path. Seek to earn a letter of recommendation from the PAS at your cross town detachment. Thrive in the AFROTC program - arrive in mental and physical shape, be active/ present, volunteer, listen, develop relationships. Ask for feedback and demonstrate you can shore up any gaps (we all have gaps). If you have time for marching band leadership to some scale, enjoy it but not at the expense of the other items above. If something has to give, miss a marching band practice or two (keep your eye on the prize here). fyi: If invited to remain in AFROTC after 2 years, they have a program that provides 4000.00 you can use toward your PPL.

Go for it on applying to the USAFA and USNA.

AFROTC is awarding more 2 year scholarships now for ICSP - in college scholarship program, less HSSP - high school scholarship program - which you missed the window on anyway.

most AFA cadets do not have their PPL - and most who have flown have little more than a PPL when they commission. But the air force does "count" flight hours toward service selection, and having the min hours for a PPL would help you both from AFROTC selection or USAFA selection. I don't know the extent to which the Navy values prior flight experience - my DS is a flight instructor/ commercial pilot and he just selected SNA - student naval aviator, so I think it was valued. Some with a PPL selected NFO, SNA, or SWO.

I agree with the advantages above of at-least getting in the air, seeing how you like being 8000 feet in the air in a Cessna 172 or whatever. I recommend paying for a class 1 flight physical from a physician and team who does these all day long for the military - it will help you save a lot of pain if you have a condition that will preclude you from flying for the AF or as an airline transport pilot someday. It's up to you but my son's buddy had a Marine Air contract, and failed his flight physical last fall. It's brutal. He'll of course still be a marine through a ground leader position, but years of dreams dashed. He would have been better off knowing he had an eye condition up front. I'd say in your case get before you start year 1 of USAFA, USNA, or year 2 of AFROTC

One of my brother's went to a school very much like a community college for 2 years. He then transferred to an ivy, graduated from said ivy - a much cheaper path. even if you decide to transfer after 3 semesters to the 4 year school or start over in NROTC after 1 year, I recommend the comm. college path.

Good luck to you - hope the ideas shared here may help in some way.

Historically, USNA has preferred 4-year colleges over CCs. The reason given is that they consider 4-year colleges to be more academically rigorous. I believe that this view has "softened" of late, and there are stories on this site of people successfully applying to USNA after CC.

A couple of random thoughts -- take 'em or leave 'em.

First, focus on your life without USNA. An appointment isn't a sure thing for anyone and you should consider where you will be happiest / most successful in life if USNA (or USAFA) doesn't work out. If you decide on CC, what do you plan to do in year 3? Stop with an Associate's degree or move on to a 4-year college? What track record does the CC have for those wanting to continue their education?

Second, whatever school you attend, take a full course load (minimum 15 hours). If you're interested in a SA, be sure to include calc, chem, English (with writing), history, and some other worthwhile course of your choosing. Even if you don't end up at a SA, these courses will put you in good stead.

Third, for SA purposes, you need to be active outside of school (or at school). This could mean a job or ECAs. Of note, marching band is considered an ECA for USNA purposes. It's ok but doesn't get you a lot of bonus points. Still, if it's meaningful to you, go for it.

Fourth, you need to stay active in sports, preferably organized sports. You need to show a SA that you can handle academics and stay in shape. If you can't do organized sports, be sure to work out on your own and do really well on the CFA.

As for finances, no one wants debt. However, all debt isn't equal. Most of us go into debt to buy a home. For some, school debt is an investment in their future. For others, it becomes an albatross. How likely is the debt going to improve your long-term job prospects?

All things being equal, for SA purposes, you're probably slightly better off at a 4-year college. But all things aren't equal. You don't want to do something that's not in your heart and that will put you in significant debt solely to pursue something that is out of your control. In the end, it's about life, not a SA. Pick the school you want to attend that will start you on a path to a career that you'll enjoy. That's always the right decision.

Based on the uncertainty, I would also vote CC. One of my kids went this route out of HS. One important piece is to look at expected Plan B Big School curriculum and course xfer lists. Make sure you take 5-6 transferrable courses that put you on pace to graduate from Plan B Big School in 4 years. Then, if Academy works out, WOOT. If not, you are still on pace with more money in your wallet after the first year.

Since CCs dont have sports (in general), I agree the above recommendation of working out on your own to ace the CFA. I would also guess (would love correction/confirmation here) that working 10-20+ hours a week would be beneficial as well, as it helps show you can handle the academic load while also juggling a full plate outside classes.

Part time work adds to the application. best if it is >= 10 hrs/month. A great part time work is to tutor, it demonstrates leadership, strengths, willingness to help others, etc.

Check your CC 'bridge' programs to a State University or College. Some CC have programs that 'guarantee' entry to your State Universities or Colleges as plan B to a Service Academy.

warden said:

Thank you for your help.

Click to expand...

Thank you for a well organized post.
Nothing necessarily new to say here but my advice: go to the community college. That's the minimal risk maneuver and best sets you up for your long term goal of flying for the Navy. Even if USNA doesn't work out you'll still be in the low risk position to transfer to a 4-year university and finish your degree.

Other comments / advice:

• The reason CCs are not viewed as favorably is because however much variability there is between 4-year schools, i.e., the difference between the most elite universities in the world and the other end of the spectrum, there is a perspective of even more variability with community colleges. Additionally, speaking as a highly successful OCS recruiter, the boards know that, generally, a CC isn't as challenging as a 4-year university. So all things equal, an applicant with more time at a 4-year school is a more reliable investment
• The above said, many young men and women attend a year of CC before transferring to university. It's a phenomenal path and so long as you approach it with the same attention to detail with which you made your post, I suspect you'll be highly successful.
• Crush the SAT/ACT, keep your fitness up, stay busy, volunteer, and the difference is nearly negligible IMO.
• Staying out of debt to the best of your ability is paramount. There are no guarantees in life and while going big / risk taking is necessary at times, taking out a lot of students loans is....
• I will say this, money/loans aside -- participating in NROTC >>> PPL IMO. The Navy will teach you to fly in the end and while a PPL shows familiarity and seriousness, NROTC is your foot in the door for sure. I put in many aviators to OCS and don't recall any of them having a PPL (though that was a long time ago now).

Conclusion: If I was mentoring you I'd recommend the following: CC for one year as you work your USNA and NROTC applications. If either works out, awesome! If not, do one more year at CC to save all the money you can, transfer to a 4-year university for the remaining two years and be the best damn OCS applicant in the country.

Awesome advice from @USNA_STEM_Prof and @usna1985 above. Heed them, for they provide level-headed counsel that takes the long view. Emphasizing a couple things here:

First, do all you can to minimize debt. It’s an insidious thing and should be taken on only for assets of appreciating value, such as a house and an education. But not all educations are created equal. If given the choice between an $60K private school and a $30K state university — especially if the goal is to become a commissioned officer — I’d take the latter every time. (Full disclosure: I teach at our flagship state university. I’d say that education is not about where you go, but what you put into it.)

Second, if money is an issue, rethink sinking funds into a PPL. The vast majority of aspiring aviators at USNA and USAFA don’t have one because it’s not necessary. The money — and time — you get back can be put to higher priorities. You have a lot of good and worthy interests, but you must put first the most important ones.

MidCakePa makes an excellent point. There is ZERO need to having your PPL for USNA purposes (can't speak to USAFA). In more than 20 years as a BGO, I had only one candidate with a PPL and that person wasn't appointed. If you want a PPL because it's something you personally desire, then go for it. But there are MANY no-cost activities that will be much more beneficial from a USNA admissions standpoint.

I took calculus from a 2 year school when in high school.

By far the best math teacher I had in college. Small classes, accessible teacher.

I couldn’t have learned calculus any better at an ivy.

I couldn’t have learned calculus any better at an ivy.

Click to expand...

Probably true b/c most ivies use TAs for most undergraduate classes. A relative who graduated from Yale said the first time he had a "real" prof was his senior year.

A1Janitor said:

I took calculus from a 2 year school when in high school.

By far the best math teacher I had in college. Small classes, accessible teacher.

I couldn’t have learned calculus any better at an ivy.

Click to expand...

My ds had a similar experience with Calc 1 at our jr. college. He says it set him up really well for Calc 2 and 3 at USAFA. I cannot say the same about his 2 composition classes.

The hardest thing about our jr. college system is that it was hard to schedule math above Calc I. DS couldn't get into a Calc 2 class because of scheduling conflicts. Not many students need it which leads to fewer class options. This surprised me because it is a feeder for one of our flagship's engineering college.

usna1985 said:

Probably true b/c most ivies use TAs for most undergraduate classes. A relative who graduated from Yale said the first time he had a "real" prof was his senior year.

Click to expand...

I can totally believe this. Seems most of my kids' friends are facing that at the Big State Us. The CC classes were with an actual prof. I can't speak to the quality of the class and/or teaching, but I cant imagine the Big State experience is any better at the moment with half the classes still at least partially virtual. They just have better spas and juice bars.

justme said:

I cant imagine the Big State experience is any better at the moment with half the classes still at least partially virtual.

Click to expand...

I teach at one of our major state universities and we've been fully in-person for at least a year and a half now. Actually, we had virtual classes
before COVID for remote students and even they've been radically cut back as we're being pushed to be an in person school. Not a lot of TAs here either and my sections are almost always under 25 students.

To be fair to the TAs, they know the material and aren’t necessarily worse teachers than research professors or professors that you can’t understand their English.