Rated positions

Stealth_81 said:
I have another theory if indeed there is a decline in the number of cadets trying for pilot slots. As the AF pilot shortage continues, there are less pilots available to fill “outside of flying” roles. One of the slots that less pilots are filling is the Cadet Squadron AOC role. One of my oldest son’s strongest influence to continue his quest for his pilot slot was his AOC who was an A-10 pilot. If there aren’t many pilots mentoring and influencing the cadets as they consider career choices, I can see it leading to a decline in pilot numbers.
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Absolutely. Every single one of my instructors in academics was a rated pilot , even my Spanish instructor from the Spanish Air Force. Like the saying you are who your friends are, if you are rarely around rated pilots, well, out of sight, out of mind. I think General Moga's Warrior series was an extremely important addition to their daily lives. The flyby's he arranged also were important. None of which I hear is happening now.

Undoubtedly having officers from other career fields is a must for mentoring, whether in the class or in the cadet squadron. The message can be confusing when they're saying there's a shortage of pilots but we don't have enough slots in Pilot training or RTU's because of foreign, yes foreign, obligations. What's a Cadet to think? ( I know, I dated myself with RTU/FTU)

I don't know what the answer is. All you have to do is look at the recent Military Academy On Site Installation Report to know that the kids showing up at the MSA's are different from decades ago, and the focus of the DOD (you know that war fighting thingy) has become extremely blurry to boot. It is very disheartening to see the recruiting numbers across the rated and non-rated community going down. I have numerous friends from the operational community who will not advocate a military career let alone an MSA to their children due to the current leadership in D.C. I just have no answer.
 
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I stand corrected, the Warfighter series is still going on as are the occasional flyby, but seriously who wants to watch a couple F-16 drones flying by.
 
Stealth_81 said:
I have another theory if indeed there is a decline in the number of cadets trying for pilot slots. As the AF pilot shortage continues, there are less pilots available to fill “outside of flying” roles. One of the slots that less pilots are filling is the Cadet Squadron AOC role. One of my oldest son’s strongest influence to continue his quest for his pilot slot was his AOC who was an A-10 pilot. If there aren’t many pilots mentoring and influencing the cadets as they consider career choices, I can see it leading to a decline in pilot numbers.
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Very probable!

My first AOC...was a B-52 Radar Nav (think bombardier)...he would talk about his career...and would commonly say "...don't get me wrong, I love what I do/did...but if I could have been a pilot, I would have been. Go for it, each of you if that's what you want!!!" My second AOC was an F-4 WSO...he was NOT a happy camper in that role. He had a wall of awards for it...but he often told us he hated not being the pilot.

At the same time...my best friends AOC was a "scientific/Top Secret Wizardry Engineer" that couldn't tell much about what he did...but what he could tell everyone had MANY folks considering engineering roles (think scientist, test engineers, weapons designers, etc.) in the AF.

The AOC "can" be a great mentor. So I am in agreement with Stealth...if there are fewer pilots as AOCs...
 
Stormbird said:
I stand corrected, the Warfighter series is still going on as are the occasional flyby, but seriously who wants to watch a couple F-16 drones flying by.
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If you can't see into the cockpit, how will you know?
 
flieger83 said:
Well...many of those "drones" have a pilot in them...

Orange doesn't mean empty, it just means "capable."
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Okay I get that, maybe we're arguing semantics but still a flyby of drones/targets, really?

But if you want to tell me that it's a PR move showing that the new generation of Fighters are coming IE F 22s and F 35s, or the NGAD fighter, I can get on board with that.. but I don't think that's what they were thinking
 
flieger83 said:
Well...many of those "drones" have a pilot in them...

Orange doesn't mean empty, it just means "capable."
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And maybe I'm a little oversensitive... of the three Fighters types I flew, two of them are flying around with orange tails😝
 
Regarding the 10 year commitment for being a pilot, it actually works out for the pilot in the scheme of things. Let's say that you only want to fly for the Air Force is because you want to work for the airlines. The thing is, a normal pilot has to have 1500 hours of flight time before a major airline will hire you. A person like my son who went to Purdue and got a degree in Professional Flight needs 1000 hours while a military pilot only needs 850 hours or so. If you were to pay for those hours personally as a civilian,it would cost a fortune and would take time. Even for military pilots, it takes time to get that many hours. My son is flying for the AF. If he is lucky, he flies once a week averaging 4-6 hours each time. He has flown his plane to Europe and back with one flight being almost 30 hours. Pilots who fly transports probably get a crap load of hours while fighter pilots probably have a limited number of hours. I heard that B-2 bombers fly maybe 100 hours per year because the airplane is so expensive to fly. My point is that many of the pilot need the time to get the flight hours so while 10 years may be more than they need, for some pilots they need the time to develop the flight hours.
 
Stormbird said:
And maybe I'm a little oversensitive... of the three Fighters types I flew, two of them are flying around with orange tails😝
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Oh, I'm waiting to see an Eagle with Orange Tails...then I'll cry.

But then...when my nametag got pulled on a Friday to shoot an AIM-7 at a target drone...and it was a QF-100, I nearly cried. That's the plane I fell in love with and what made me want to fly.

Thankfully...the radar and the missile didn't want to speak with each other...so I was an MX cancel.
 
Humey said:
Regarding the 10 year commitment for being a pilot, it actually works out for the pilot in the scheme of things. Let's say that you only want to fly for the Air Force is because you want to work for the airlines. The thing is, a normal pilot has to have 1500 hours of flight time before a major airline will hire you. A person like my son who went to Purdue and got a degree in Professional Flight needs 1000 hours while a military pilot only needs 850 hours or so. If you were to pay for those hours personally as a civilian,it would cost a fortune and would take time. Even for military pilots, it takes time to get that many hours. My son is flying for the AF. If he is lucky, he flies once a week averaging 4-6 hours each time. He has flown his plane to Europe and back with one flight being almost 30 hours. Pilots who fly transports probably get a crap load of hours while fighter pilots probably have a limited number of hours. I heard that B-2 bombers fly maybe 100 hours per year because the airplane is so expensive to fly. My point is that many of the pilot need the time to get the flight hours so while 10 years may be more than they need, for some pilots they need the time to develop the flight hours.
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Not really. It just removes the choice to leave when desired. There is nothing to say a pilot can't stay in for 12 years, or 13.85, etc. Most do wings+10 or 20, as those are the first time they can leave or the first time they get full retirement benefits, although some leave somewhere in the middle.
 
Humey said:
Let's say that you only want to fly for the Air Force is because you want to work for the airlines.
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Kind of odd to think that so many Navy pilots get hired by the airlines. . .
 
It could be the insane backlog to get to UPT because of the lack of active duty and civilian IPs...ugh, so frustrating! I guess '23-'27 doesn't want to add another 2-3 years on to their commitment.
 
I wanted to fly and I didn't have the opportunity and my DS (CL 27) have a 50/50 chance instead chose to double major in Computer Science and Cyber. There's a shortage of pilots and I was hoping he will change his mind after the flight simulation class but nope, that didn't help. I guess I should have known after he told the USAFA ALO that he is not interested in flying,
 
pv123 said:
It could be the insane backlog to get to UPT because of the lack of active duty and civilian IPs...ugh, so frustrating! I guess '23-'27 doesn't want to add another 2-3 years on to their commitment.
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That is currently my '25s concern. That AND the next 14 years do not look good, globally.
 
One thing I've noticed over the years, and it doesn't seem to change much, is that the dreams, aspirations, goals, etc. of the individual walking in as a cadet on day 1, dramatically changes in the 4 years they are at the academy. Most/Many of these grand dreams of being a pilot and a glorious military career. Very few have any idea what they are really getting into when they make that walk on day 1. In 4 years, many have realized that while they still don't mind a military commitment, they definitely are thinking seriously about a 10+ year commitment. That is why the academy normally only gets in the 500's of people getting pilot slots. People simply change their mind. Then, you throw in the few who physically/medically don't qualify and that is how you get to the 500's pilot slots. Same with many of the other careers.

My son graduated the academy with a pilot slot. But he also walked out with an offer to go directly to grad school. (With his pilot slot held for him after grad school). During his 3 years in grad school, he had a change of heart. What he really wanted to be, was a STO. (Special Tactics Officer). The air force wasn't too excited about it, but enough people got involved to let him "Try Out" for STO. He made it through selection and after grad school he went into training. He knew he still had a major time commitment. 6 years for being a STO, on top of the commitment for accepting going to grad school. So he knew he was committed to at least 12 years.

The point is, if you qualify, and you want a rated slot, especially pilot, you can pretty much get it. But people change their minds all the time. I think in my son's case, he wanted to be a STO all along, but knew his mother wouldn't be too happy with it. Hee Hee. But given time in grad school, he decided to try out and go for it. There will be a lot of cadets on day one wanting rated slots. In 4 years, many will settle for a job that doesn't require a commitment beyond the 5 years for going to the academy. Some will look at their future, and go for jobs that will help them when they get out of the military. Pilot, missiles, drones, space, etc. are all exciting careers; but the civilian equivalent to those jobs are quite limited. Vs careers in electronics, computers/IT, finance, contracting, engineering, etc. where the jobs are a lot more plentiful.
 
Walking Tall said:
I wanted to fly and I didn't have the opportunity and my DS (CL 27) have a 50/50 chance instead chose to double major in Computer Science and Cyber. There's a shortage of pilots and I was hoping he will change his mind after the flight simulation class but nope, that didn't help. I guess I should have known after he told the USAFA ALO that he is not interested in flying,
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Not sure why you are making the connection between majoring in CS/Cyber and not being a pilot. Majors don't normally have much effect on getting a rated job or not.
 
Christcorp said:
One thing I've noticed over the years, and it doesn't seem to change much, is that the dreams, aspirations, goals, etc. of the individual walking in as a cadet on day 1, dramatically changes in the 4 years they are at the academy. Most/Many of these grand dreams of being a pilot and a glorious military career. Very few have any idea what they are really getting into when they make that walk on day 1. In 4 years, many have realized that while they still don't mind a military commitment, they definitely are thinking seriously about a 10+ year commitment. That is why the academy normally only gets in the 500's of people getting pilot slots. People simply change their mind. Then, you throw in the few who physically/medically don't qualify and that is how you get to the 500's pilot slots. Same with many of the other careers.

My son graduated the academy with a pilot slot. But he also walked out with an offer to go directly to grad school. (With his pilot slot held for him after grad school). During his 3 years in grad school, he had a change of heart. What he really wanted to be, was a STO. (Special Tactics Officer). The air force wasn't too excited about it, but enough people got involved to let him "Try Out" for STO. He made it through selection and after grad school he went into training. He knew he still had a major time commitment. 6 years for being a STO, on top of the commitment for accepting going to grad school. So he knew he was committed to at least 12 years.

The point is, if you qualify, and you want a rated slot, especially pilot, you can pretty much get it. But people change their minds all the time. I think in my son's case, he wanted to be a STO all along, but knew his mother wouldn't be too happy with it. Hee Hee. But given time in grad school, he decided to try out and go for it. There will be a lot of cadets on day one wanting rated slots. In 4 years, many will settle for a job that doesn't require a commitment beyond the 5 years for going to the academy. Some will look at their future, and go for jobs that will help them when they get out of the military. Pilot, missiles, drones, space, etc. are all exciting careers; but the civilian equivalent to those jobs are quite limited. Vs careers in electronics, computers/IT, finance, contracting, engineering, etc. where the jobs are a lot more plentiful.
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Its the same with fighter planes. Mostly everyone goes in with the idea they want to fly fighters and then at some point decide they want anything but a fighter. My son dream list that he turned in also included fighters but he was never a fan of high Gs so he chose fighters that dealt with it less. The joke was on him as he wound up with B-52 which deals with no Gs
 
If you get selected for an RPA slot is there any chance that you could move to a manned slot at any time during your service? Just curious if this ever happens with the so called “pilot shortage” going on. I’ve read RPA pilots go through the same training up to a certain point.
 
RustyNail66 said:
If you get selected for an RPA slot is there any chance that you could move to a manned slot at any time during your service? Just curious if this ever happens with the so called “pilot shortage” going on. I’ve read RPA pilots go through the same training up to a certain point.
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I haven't heard any stories of someone moving from RPA to Pilot. I don't think it would be in the interest of the USAF. They would still have to invest resources to train the RPA pilots how to fly trainer aircraft (T-6, T-38) and then their following MDS (C-17, F-16 etc).

RPA pilots used to complete a program where they train with civilian aircraft and get their PPL -- similar to IFT. However, I talked to an RPA pilot over the summer who mentioned that the new syllabus only has RPA pilots getting ~15 hours of stick time.
 
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