USNA Application Status Change: "Conditional (LOA)"

DD played on a high-level club team that flew out of state every three weeks for weekend tournaments —out Thursday morning, back Sunday night. She hauled a heavy bag of athletic gear, plus her backpack with school stuff. Team practices were four times a week, involving a one-hour round trip.

She took six AP classes senior year. Chaired her school’s Conduct Committee, served as a senior mentor, volunteered as a math tutor. Applied to three SAs and for three ROTC scholarships (she was very determined to become a commissioned officer). Applied to 10 Plan B schools (yes, that’s a lot, but we all know how illogically fickle college admissions is).

I did critique her essays. I did a couple mock interviews with her, and then drove her to MOC interviews. (See what I did there? )

I never once saw any of her application portals. Never saw her email inbox. (She did show me an email from the first school to admit her, just because she was so pumped by the “fireworks” when it was opened.) I never asked. She never volunteered. I trusted her to be all over it.

An expert in SA admissions gave her great advice. To paraphrase: “Take as hard a school load as possible. Challenge yourself with leadership roles and varsity athletics. Show the SAs that you can handle big challenges, manage your time, and deal with stress. Because that’s exactly what you’ll be expected to do at an SA.” And to us parents: “Let her own the application process.”

Not a fish tale. Several times while at USNA, DD did tell us: “I’ve never been this stressed out [or this busy or this exhausted] in my life.” Now as a 2LT, I’m sure she still feels that way at times.

I’ve met enough mids (and their parents) to know that DD’s senior-year experience wasn’t that unusual. Sure, every kid and situation is a bit different. But this I know, both as a parent and as a college professor: Kids are capable of much, much more than we give them credit for — or let them be.

A1Janitor said:

This might make sense if you were talking to someone who didn’t have successful candidates at USNA.

My son was the one that bore full responsibility taking the next steps in his life. He did a great job - got inducted and performed very well at USNA.

Not sure why an accomplished 17 year old can’t follow instructions and make phone calls, if necessary.

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Simple. They are not equipped to deal with adults bureaucracy, in most cases. Also if the intention on the part of the SA was to completely remove parents from the process. This would’ve been done already.

A1Janitor said:

This might make sense if you were talking to someone who didn’t have successful candidates at USNA.

My son was the one that bore full responsibility taking the next steps in his life. He did a great job - got inducted and performed very well at USNA.

Not sure why an accomplished 17 year old can’t follow instructions and make phone calls, if necessary.

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And let’s not forget that there are folks who have built successful consulting business around SA admissions process. If everything was as simple as just following instructions then those services would’ve not been necessary.

mike1979 said:

Simple. They are not equipped to deal with adults bureaucracy, in most cases. Also if the intention on the part of the SA was to completely remove parents from the process. This would’ve been done already.

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Yet there are parents on this forum telling you the kids are equipped to deal with it based on experience.

No offense - but if my kid can be the valedictorian of his school (highest GPA in school history), while being a class officer every year since 7th grade, was in student council every year and an officer, 3 sport starting captain (with 9 varsity letters), mock trial for three years (including captain last year) dealing with local attorneys and judges, math club captain, science club captain (won first place in an international competition), AAU basketball outside of basketball season, crossfit at 5:30 am outside of basketball season to get into shape, maxing the CFA in pull-ups, mile, sit-ups, with a 1560 SAT (800 math) taken once, and a perfect 100 unweighted average in all stem classes in high school … I think he can handle the application process.

It also made the interviews much easier.

DD1 didn't apply for ROTC because 1. She didn't need the scholarship. She already had one to the likely destination if she was declined by all four academies and her independent funding was sufficient and 2. She was tired of the application processes. She was asked about the lack of ROTC application during her several MoC and BGO/ALO interviews and explained that she would program if necessary. She also had to explain why she didn't apply to USMA, which was because they didn't offer any academic majors that appealed to her.

As for DD2, the only service she was interested in was Coast Guard (she wants to save people/the environment, not blow stuff up). And I did mention that her backup schools were CSPI eligible. Much like @A1Janitor's DS, she would have been entering school with close to 2 years of credit.

As for me, I never really had any doubt that both of them would be desired by the SAs and colleges to which they applied. I knew how they ranked academically, athletically, and from a leadership perspective. Thankfully, I also had no DODMERB anxieties (that would have been rough). My hat is off to all of the applicants and their parents who have had to deal with that extended process.

FutureAcademyDad? said:

DD1 didn't apply for ROTC because 1. She didn't need the scholarship. She already had one to the likely destination if she was declined by all four academies and her independent funding was sufficient and 2. She was tired of the application processes. She was asked about the lack of ROTC application during her several MoC and BGO/ALO interviews and explained that she would program if necessary. She also had to explain why she didn't apply to USMA, which was because they didn't offer any academic majors that appealed to her.

As for DD2, the only service she was interested in was Coast Guard (she wants to save people/the environment, not blow stuff up). And I did mention that her backup schools were CSPI eligible. Much like @A1Janitor's DS, she would have been entering school with close to 2 years of credit.

As for me, I never really had any doubt that both of them would be desired by the SAs and colleges to which they applied. I knew how they ranked academically, athletically, and from a leadership perspective. Thankfully, I also had no DODMERB anxieties (that would have been rough). My hat is off to all of the applicants and their parents who have had to deal with that extended process.

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I wouldn’t wish on my worst enemies to experience the agony of waiting for the waiver… true to what others have said, LOA means nada especially if you’re sitting on the waiver decision.

NCA said:

I wouldn’t wish on my worst enemies to experience the agony of waiting for the waiver… true to what others have said, LOA means nada especially if you’re sitting on the waiver decision.

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Absolutely. My son’s loa was meaningless with a known colorblind dq. So the question became - is he one of the top 15 or so in country that applied USNA that were colorblind.

Capt MJ said:

How much rotor wash a parent may or may not generate doesn’t matter to me as long as they equip their young adult son or daughter, by any parenting method they choose, with the skills to:
- handle tough decisions
- take accountability and say “no, I’ve got this”
- set boundaries as needed as roles change
- roll with unexpected news and still function
- navigate challenging professional interpersonal exchanges successfully, especially live, f2f ones
- know how to do legwork themselves
- advocate for themselves as needed
- think critically and understand primary, secondary and tertiary consequences
- be strong enough to resist peer pressure, especially when ethics and honor are involved
- coach themselves out of small disappointments so they have the confidence to handle the big ones
- face bad news and know how to deal with it
- understand parents are now starting their own transition to “life consultants” and away from being active lifeguards
- think through a problem and develop a solution set on their own, and then maybe run it by parents
- be resilient enough to fail and recover without help
- understand they are flawed human beings, as all of us are, and hubris is a terrible thing to develop, and kindness is a great habit

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My favorite post too! I am a proud "rotor" parent. As a mom of 3 very independent kiddos, I was their "life consultant" and sometimes their personal secretary. When applying to SA's and colleges, we taught them about networking, interviewing, and accountability. If they forgot to "cross a T or dot an I" then I pointed it out...all part of their learning experience.

mike1979 said:

By the way. These stories about over achieving DS/DD look more and more like fish tales. Four academies (why four?), four colleges,

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I won’t waste my time or any one else’s detailing my son’s high school resume. Suffice it to say he was 100% an overachiever. Slept very little. Didn’t party or do much fun stuff. He had a goal of serving as an officer and USNA was his first choice.

You ask why four academies? Why not? If someone has a goal of serving as an officer and can envision themselves in any of the branches of our great military, more power to them. DS applied to four and received three appointments and first round Tier 1 NROTC.

Implying that forum members lie or embellish their kid’s resumes here on the forum isn’t cool.

I’ve met several forum members in person. We are real people and we don’t share fish tales here and then have to change our stories in person. I’ve met kids of forum members. Bought some sandwiches for some.

It is possible for high achieving busy high school students to navigate this process. Of course outlier issues like travel and DODMERB exist. I’m not saying parents shouldn’t be involved. They should be involved in their kid’s lives.

I thought my son couldn’t have more tasks to do or balls in the air when he was in high school. Honestly he never stopped and slept little. Cue plebe summer and his first AC year and he got busier. Same is true now as a firstie with two billets. Navigating it all and managing his time and stress the last three years was possible because he had the foundation to do so.

Definitely not fish tales.

Many of the midshipmen I met as a USNA Battalion Officer and over 25+ years of sponsoring midshipmen have had an astonishing array of achievements, broad and deep, and had gotten offers of appointment to several academies and alternate plan schools with ROTC options. Many of them with no military exposure knew they wanted to serve, and applying to multiple academies allowed them to learn as they went and make a better informed decision when it was time.

There were also plenty of mids with perhaps not as dramatically sparkly backgrounds, but they all demonstrated strength in core academic, leadership and athletic/physical skills. They also came from under-resourced public schools in economically depressed rural areas as well as name-brand prep schools, and everything along the educational and socioeconomic continuum. Many benefited from NAPS or a sponsored prep scholarship.

A good example of an extra sparkly background in an unbroken line from high school to USNA to her current role:

... so glad we're all anonymous here.

Now here's my $0.02 cents. For us the focus was combat duty after the academy. That school next to the Hudson rejected my DS by the first week of December. His application (I'm sure of it) was rejected by the regional commander (O3/CPT). DS received an appointment from USNA the following March. I was disappointed initially (even cried, long story) but adapted. I, "we" learned to love USNA and the yard. It's a beautiful and historic place. For me personally, as I go through Gate 8, I get into this yoga-trance like mode. I'm a 30-year combat vet so my time is near in "crossing the river" (borrowed from General MacArthur's Farewell speech to Cadets, 1962). While driving through Gate 8, I happened to mention about my ashes being scattered on the parade field. Expecting shocked replies, my DW/DS were enthusiastic about it.

FutureAcademyDad? said:

The bottom line is that these kids have the drive, discipline, and talent to navigate the process themselves, with only collateral assistance from others. Doing so proves and enhances their ownership of the process and that achieving the goal is their own dream, not their parent's or anyone else's. It enhances their sense of achievement and positions them to meet the very, very difficult challenges that they will face as midshipmen and cadets.

The more acclimated they become to behaving like an independent adult before they actually to become one, the easier the transition will be.

They can do it, if they are allowed to.

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This.

Perhaps it is piling on to add our son's experience to this conversation for @mike1979's edification, but he did it all on his own from his boarding school 2500 miles away from home with zero help from us as we weren't on board with him joining the military (long-timers here know our story). He voluntarily left home at 14 to pursue an education not available to him where we live. By the time he was applying to service academies, he had been living away and navigating all of the minutiae of life including academics, sports, laundry, banking, and scheduling flights to and from school for several years with the added bonus that, by the time he was scheduling transpo to and from West Point, he had status on one airline. Like @Heatherg21, I won’t waste my time or any one else’s detailing our son’s high school resume as it reads like all of the other high achievers who gain appointments.

My point is that I concur with all of those upthread who say that a candidate absolutely can navigate this process on their own and those who do exhibit the independence that is best acquired before they hit the academy.

severn said:

... so glad we're all anonymous here.

Now here's my $0.02 cents. For us the focus was combat duty after the academy. That school next to the Hudson rejected my DS by the first week of December. His application (I'm sure of it) was rejected by the regional commander (O3/CPT). DS received an appointment from USNA the following March. I was disappointed initially (even cried, long story) but adapted. I, "we" learned to love USNA and the yard. It's a beautiful and historic place. For me personally, as I go through Gate 8, I get into this yoga-trance like mode. I'm a 30-year combat vet so my time is near in "crossing the river" (borrowed from General MacArthur's Farewell speech to Cadets, 1962). While driving through Gate 8, I happened to mention about my ashes being scattered on the parade field. Expecting shocked replies, my DW/DS were enthusiastic about it.

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Joining you on this little thread detour (and we are already a long way from “conditional LOA”), DH and I are both committed to the anatomical gift program at the USUHS medical school and then cremains to the Navy burial at sea program. Links provided for those who have not considered this. And it’s not just sea service people who can do this.


Now back to the ongoing exchange of views.

... sorry for this another anecdote, last one.

I was in Iraq and one team member requested that we go to the nearest mountain range to scatter his parent's ashes. So a patrol of 3 Humvees went to the mountains. I couldn't say yes or no, but just nodded. On the way back, we found a pristine lake. We posted security and took turns swimming for two hours. Strange experiences.

Too often those that are pushed and "helped" constantly by their parents in life fail miserably when truly on their own. And mommy and daddy continue to bail them out. Their sense of their abilities is inflated because they always have a solid back-up plan to rely on someone else to do things for them, or simply buy their way out of a challenge.

$50k/year prep schools, private individual tutors, life coaches, someone else doing their application/work, road-mapped success path, etc. etc. Destined for success, yes. But that's also known as unearned privilege. While a kid still has to be intelligent to succeed in this arena, having such a huge leg up makes their life a hell of a lot easier to get there.

... already accepted the fact that the Next major conflict in the South China Sea, my DS will be in the thick of the thickest of things. My last 30-page paper in the War College was how to defeat the paper tiger. The initial salvos will be tremendous... for both sides.

I agree with most of your argument, @IronmanDaremo. However, can you (and others) leave out the part about $50k/year prep schools? Actually, our prep school is $65k/year, and we don't have a choice: our local public schools are awful. So please don't assume that prep school equals "unearned privilege."

... all these arguments/inductive/deductive logics, don't matter anymore once the balloon goes up. We're all in the same side... to victory.

This morning I listened to an Israeli Colonel describing the latest war in Gaza as a combined "Pearl Harbor - 9/11" into one. It's not so much "If" but "when" will the next major conflict involving U.S. Forces.

SeePower said:

However, can you (and others) leave out the part about $50k/year prep schools? Actually, our prep school is $65k/year, and we don't have a choice: our local public schools are awful. So please don't assume that prep school equals "unearned privilege."

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Amen. And don't for a minute think that faculty, administration, coaches, or anyone else at these schools is doing any student's work. Schools like @SeePower references are known as "independent" schools for a reason. There is no coddling. They prepare their students well to hit the ground running at any of the colleges they attend, thus the term "prep." Most students at these schools think that (any) college is a breeze after their high school years. And, if they board, they also have the homesickness, travel, dorm living, roommate thing licked. After four years at boarding school, until our son was fully into his major, he found West Point a bit underwhelming.

severn said:

... all these arguments/inductive/deductive logics, don't matter anymore once the balloon goes up. We're all in the same side... to victory.

This morning I listened to an Israeli Colonel describing the latest war in Gaza as a combined "Pearl Harbor - 9/11" into one. It's not so much "If" but "when" will the next major conflict involving U.S. Forces.

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And for perspective… there are young USNA grads who graduated this past May on those ships that are arriving off the coast. They are leading Sailors, working on quals on standing the watch. Less than 6 months ago they were living in Mother B.