Not that it is the same, but Air Force ROTC has its cadets go through to a month long field training every summer between the end of sophomore year and Junior year. You cant continue ROTC without going or passing it. Way back when, it used to be around 28-30 days. My son went last summer and it was 21 days. This summer its going to 18 days as they are adding an additional class. They used to do 6 classes per summer and now it 7. They are dropping the days so that they can get more kids through.
ARTICLE: Air Force Academy has leadership problem
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Hah, I'm surprised it took so long for this article to show up here. To be honest, the formation did look pretty mediocre when it passed the reviewing stand.
Cadets are taught drill in BCT by other cadets. There really isn't any other drill training. Noon meal formation is one turn, march straight, eyes right, turn again and that's it. Right now I want to say there is one MTI at the AFA who is experienced enough to make a flight look good when marching.
Do I think there should be more emphasis on drill? Sure. Is it as big of an issue as L. Todd Wood claims? No, I do not think so.
Btw, many people think these attacks on the AF Academy are Wood's attempt to get some publicity for his upcoming book.
Cadets are taught drill in BCT by other cadets. There really isn't any other drill training. Noon meal formation is one turn, march straight, eyes right, turn again and that's it. Right now I want to say there is one MTI at the AFA who is experienced enough to make a flight look good when marching.
Do I think there should be more emphasis on drill? Sure. Is it as big of an issue as L. Todd Wood claims? No, I do not think so.
Btw, many people think these attacks on the AF Academy are Wood's attempt to get some publicity for his upcoming book.
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My son was a cadet in the parade. It was so exciting!! The picture shown by the author was while they were marching to the parade. Here is a screenshot I took from the TV, the minute they were passing the President. It's not a great shot but does show some lines were not straight. I thought they still looked fabulous! But I may be a bit prejudice. 
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6KDogwhistle
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This article is just silly.
The different views have much to do with generation gaps and the culture. My poppy told me that he walked up hill both ways, bare foot in the snow with a 100 pound backpack. I say the same to my kids. lol. "Lax"?...perhaps they have become a bit relaxed. 4 weeks vs. 3 weeks of field training? Does it really matter? What matters, IMHO, is to equip and teach our future leaders to do their job to the best of their abilities and more specifically, true integrity. The system that's in place promotes anything and everything but that.
I was referred to as "cadet casual and cadet stealth". I think I turned out okay. We need to go back to the basics and lead by example. There's a huge shortage of real leaders these days. Most of them are not even good bean counting managers. As someone mentioned, the academy should not be judged based on parade and lunch etiquette.
The different views have much to do with generation gaps and the culture. My poppy told me that he walked up hill both ways, bare foot in the snow with a 100 pound backpack. I say the same to my kids. lol. "Lax"?...perhaps they have become a bit relaxed. 4 weeks vs. 3 weeks of field training? Does it really matter? What matters, IMHO, is to equip and teach our future leaders to do their job to the best of their abilities and more specifically, true integrity. The system that's in place promotes anything and everything but that.
I was referred to as "cadet casual and cadet stealth". I think I turned out okay. We need to go back to the basics and lead by example. There's a huge shortage of real leaders these days. Most of them are not even good bean counting managers. As someone mentioned, the academy should not be judged based on parade and lunch etiquette.
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Each generation is different, whether it be an Academy, OTS, ROTC, etc.
Back in the stone ages, just before I departed for OTS, my father, retired AF enlisted, "warned" me about how I would be yelled at and otherwise abused. Guess what...after 20 - 30 years, things change! The flight commanders were not allowed to yell, use profanity, etc. Although, one did, but not mine. You can imagine after I had psyched myself up for the abuse and didn't get it, how much I could easily look at the "training" and see how much of it was just mind games.
My point...those preceding you will always complain about how the current generation has it easier. Sometimes true, other times not. Life and the world changes. Get over it.
Back in the stone ages, just before I departed for OTS, my father, retired AF enlisted, "warned" me about how I would be yelled at and otherwise abused. Guess what...after 20 - 30 years, things change! The flight commanders were not allowed to yell, use profanity, etc. Although, one did, but not mine. You can imagine after I had psyched myself up for the abuse and didn't get it, how much I could easily look at the "training" and see how much of it was just mind games.
My point...those preceding you will always complain about how the current generation has it easier. Sometimes true, other times not. Life and the world changes. Get over it.
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That's correct. In my opinion, past generations had more pride. Today's cadets and Mids are less locked on than ever before. The administration, while not necessarily condoning it, does little to correct it. USAFA for example... doolies don't have to carry backpacks the first year, and no longer have to walk on the strips. Girls can wear hair longer than ever. Wing PT consequences have been cut severely. Marching with cap up or down? Who cares?
Look at the rifles in a USNA parade, never are they uniform. Gloves on? Gloves off. Texting in formation? Give me a break.
The academies are much kinder and gentler than ever before, and in my opinion may not be producing the quality of officers than in years past.
Academies are trying very hard to attract candidates that they have determined are needed to make the academies look more like the service they represent. Perhaps they don't want to be too harsh and turn off candidates.
When the academies lose all sense of tradition they will be just like other colleges, and I fear they will be phased out in favor of ROTC.
Sorry if my comments offend, but I truly love the academies, and respect them because it is such an ordeal that special kids are willing to endure for the love of their country. I fear it's slipping away.
Your comments are spot on, even if unpopular. These little, seemingly unimportant things are a reflection, and change is not always good. Victory in war begins with a shine on a boot.
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Maplerock and Brovol, you are both wrong. My DD has more pride in what she is doing, the AF, and the Academy than most people I currently know on active duty. And, yes, they still have to carry their backpacks in their left hand and walk the strips, as well as walk on the right side of the hallways, with 90 degree corners while Doolies until Recognition.
As for long hair, it must be kept in a bun to meet regs. Even in the early 80s, we were allowed to have long hair provided we could put it up so that hats could be worn appropriately.
Seriously, when have you seen a picture of AF Cadets marching while texting?
Maybe both of you should actually go spend the entire 6 weeks at BCT or any Academy summer basic, and then respond with some facts.
And, yes, my DD and most of her classmates still spend hours trying to get the perfect shine on their shoes as well.
As for long hair, it must be kept in a bun to meet regs. Even in the early 80s, we were allowed to have long hair provided we could put it up so that hats could be worn appropriately.
Seriously, when have you seen a picture of AF Cadets marching while texting?
Maybe both of you should actually go spend the entire 6 weeks at BCT or any Academy summer basic, and then respond with some facts.
And, yes, my DD and most of her classmates still spend hours trying to get the perfect shine on their shoes as well.
6KDogwhistle
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I can't say that I like some of the changes to the academy's policies regarding cadet behavior and doing away with some of the "traditions". Change can be good or bad and people will always have an opinion(s). Things change and sometimes, it's just the way it goes. To each his own.
In regards to your statement above, I personally don't believe that'll be the case in our life time but it's a possibility, as our nation as a whole rejects the very core values of our constitution, thereby bankrupting the national budget as well as our morals. Traditions, nor rules & regulations, nor parade & lunch etiquettes, will bring positive change. Integrity first...service before self....excellence in all we do...what does all this really mean? By the looks of it, not too many of our servicemen live by these words, especially as they get promoted. We have lost our way and the leadership....well, what leadership?!?! As a nation, we must do some serious soul searching and even better yet, how about some soul cleansing.
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Haha. Because you know it for a fact, right? We're entitled to our opinion aren't we?
By the way... doolies were relieved of those terrible burdens before Thanksgiving.
Im surprised you were so defensive. You must have thought I was insinuating that females were the reason for the relaxed regs.
I can't speak for Brovol, but I don't need to go BCT to know it's tough. Never said it wasn't.
BlahuKahuna
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It's been a while since I've had the privilege to communicate with you, my favorite USAFA expert. Here we go:
1)Doolies put their backpacks on their backs on 18 November. They were still confined to the strips at quick time until Recognition. I actually played a fairly large role in getting this policy implemented, and I'm very open to discussing how I helped to send the Academy to millennial hell by allowing the cadets to carry their backpacks...on their backs...to class.
2)I'm sorry that you don't like women having hair.
3)Not sure what a wing PT consequence is. Must have been eradicated when there were still warriors here.
4)Is it stressful worrying this much about the gradual downfall of the federal service academies?
-Blahu "kids these days just know it all" Kahuna, USAFA '17
Nothing you have said makes our points any less accurate. If you believe attention to detail is unimportant in the military, or that marching in sharp precision is neither relevant nor a reflection of our academies attention to that detail, or if you believe the pictures posted, even by those here who were supporting USAFA's presentation at the inauguration, that is fine. I respectfully (and I mean that in the truest sense), disagree.
At all of the academies there will be, and I am sure have always been, people who come in very squared away, doing everything the right way, and will continue that throughout. And there are those who come in sloppy. The academies should train up, or eliminate those who do not become responsible to the core, and manifest that in everything they do.
The article was clearly written, not by someone with an agenda, but by a USAFA grad, who is not just sharing his own observations, but those of other grads. Those grads have pride in their school and the Air Force, and they should. Both have a legacy of excellence, which continues today.
I don't disparage any parent for the instinct to defend all things USAFA. But to suggest there is no room for improvement, in light of conspicuous evidence to the contrary, seems defensive at best. You all are great people, and I would be every bit as proud if my kid was at USAFA as I am that he is at USMA, so I certainly don't care to make enemies. My son and I have discussed these very issues several times about West Point. It was there that the cadet was texting while she marched on graduation day.
I don't need to spend six weeks at the academy to see that the cadets were marching very sloppy, with uniforms not all worn properly, during a parade with the world watching. They were.
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Each academy has its strengths and weaknesses.
West Point is good at marching. Navy isn't.
Zoomies have good educations but are a little looser on the military end of the spectrum.
West Point is good at marching. Navy isn't.
Zoomies have good educations but are a little looser on the military end of the spectrum.
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Brovol and Maplerock, I apologize for my harshness and do not mean anything personal.
What bothers me the most about these type of articles and especially this one author is that the entire cadet wing is being condemned for the actions or appearance of a few in a snapshot of time. Yes, I could come up with excuses as could others. But, excuses are not what is needed. Is there room for improvement? Of course. There is always room for improvement, not just at the academies, but in all aspects of our life.
Also, this is nothing new as some try to make it seem. Throughout the history of the Academy, every class has its "slackers" and those who put the institution and the cadet wing in a poor light. Even in DH's days at USAFA (mid - late 70s), there were cadets about which he would ask himself, "how in the heck did he get in and how is he still here?" (I can use the he pronoun since his class had no females). I had the unfortunate opportunity to deal with one of his former classmates, one of which was not highly regarded, when I was on active duty. Instead of going into a long story about this idiot, I will just say that because of his reckless actions as a pilot on "my flight line", I had him banned from the flight line and he did not fly for 30 days.
Too, this is not unique to the service academies or military. I am sure in the civilian world, you have had those that everyone else had to carry and you wonder how they ever got hired or stay employed. They just make everything harder for those who are proud of what they do and do it to their very best. I have dealt with this in school, college, the military, and in my civilian work.
Finally, yes, I do get very defensive about USAFA because I know how hard my DD and her close group try to uphold the excellence expected and how, at times, they have suffered for those who could care less about attention to detail or proper formation. She is very proud of this institution as is my DH and I do not appreciate when she is categorized or stereotyped based on glimpses not representative of the big picture.
What bothers me the most about these type of articles and especially this one author is that the entire cadet wing is being condemned for the actions or appearance of a few in a snapshot of time. Yes, I could come up with excuses as could others. But, excuses are not what is needed. Is there room for improvement? Of course. There is always room for improvement, not just at the academies, but in all aspects of our life.
Also, this is nothing new as some try to make it seem. Throughout the history of the Academy, every class has its "slackers" and those who put the institution and the cadet wing in a poor light. Even in DH's days at USAFA (mid - late 70s), there were cadets about which he would ask himself, "how in the heck did he get in and how is he still here?" (I can use the he pronoun since his class had no females). I had the unfortunate opportunity to deal with one of his former classmates, one of which was not highly regarded, when I was on active duty. Instead of going into a long story about this idiot, I will just say that because of his reckless actions as a pilot on "my flight line", I had him banned from the flight line and he did not fly for 30 days.
Too, this is not unique to the service academies or military. I am sure in the civilian world, you have had those that everyone else had to carry and you wonder how they ever got hired or stay employed. They just make everything harder for those who are proud of what they do and do it to their very best. I have dealt with this in school, college, the military, and in my civilian work.
Finally, yes, I do get very defensive about USAFA because I know how hard my DD and her close group try to uphold the excellence expected and how, at times, they have suffered for those who could care less about attention to detail or proper formation. She is very proud of this institution as is my DH and I do not appreciate when she is categorized or stereotyped based on glimpses not representative of the big picture.
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Thank you, we'll said. And, thank you for your service. I'm sure your DD is a chip off the old block, and indeed a Cadet to be proud of.
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1)Doolies put their backpacks on their backs on 18 November. They were still confined to the strips at quick time until Recognition. I actually played a fairly large role in getting this policy implemented said:
madhttr
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FWIW--visited the Academy just yesterday with some family from out of town and observed a number of small groups of cadets (less than a squadron) doing drill training after lunch. Whether this is related to the forum topic or routine procedure, I don't know, but there was a lot of "left-right-left" going on.
They all have mostly strengths. All have outstanding academics, but develop much more than that. Frankly, they are so much alike it is hard to distinguish strengths and weaknesses, and those things that are measurable might change from year to year in terms of which school it best at one thing or another. I believe though that they all could be tightened a bit in terms of discipline and order. Going a little "old school" wouldn't be a bad thing. There is nothing wrong with a bit of criticism, as long as it is fair. All services are military, and they are, after all, "military" academies, so they should all be real serious about the "military end of the spectrum". At least that is my thought.
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At the end of BCT, DD's roommate woke her up in the wee hours and said, "xxx, do you know you were just doing facing movements in your sleep?" DD had no idea. What I didn't find out for sure was if she was doing this laying down or standing up, sleep-walking!
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